Lesson about console use

Discussion in 'RPG Maker MV School' started by Poryg, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom

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    A short and quick obstacle course about console use presenting a couple of easy practical (and a couple of less practical, but nevertheless interesting ones showcasing the potential of console) examples directly from the RM engine.
    While console has no direct impact on the editor, it is an important debugging and learning asset.
    The lesson is located in the east hall, far right classroom, next to the bathrooms.

    Lesson structure
    The course is separated into 5+1 (one is optional) obstacles with provided solutions.

    Extra materials
    Extra pictures begin with PCC.
    Lesson indicators: Switches 30, 31
    All extra variables present in the lesson aren't $gameVariables and are set to undefined at the end of the lesson. The extra monster shown in the lesson is not present in the database and never will.


    Known bugs/issues

    None
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
    #1
  2. bhindi1224

    bhindi1224 NOT Indian Okra

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    Don't know how I missed this. I think the MV School project is gonna be amazing.
     
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  3. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Inevitable Staff Member

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    Couple of bugs I've noticed:

    1. If you start a fresh game it errors out when you name the character.
    2. Sound and tint was persisting after you leave the classroom.
     
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  4. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom

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    Copy that, I'll check it out :)
    @Touchfuzzy The bugs have been fixed (apart from the page down TUTOR, because I completely forgot about it).
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  5. bhindi1224

    bhindi1224 NOT Indian Okra

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    @Poryg I've tried with both your pre-made save (1st one, 2nd seems to be mid-tutorial) and a new game, both going through orientation. I always get this error right as I click to learn about the console from Poryg:
    [​IMG]
    Edit: Also, I don't know if it matters, but the screen tint and sound effect persist after leaving the room with Poryg in it.

    From what I can tell, it's this script that's doing it:
    Code:
    itemsBackup = []
    for (i in $gameParty._items) {
    itemsBackup[i] ($gameParty._items[i])
    }
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    #5
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  6. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom

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    Saves aren't pre-made, just undeleted. First one is default Touch's.
    I'll look at the tint once again, because I am sure I fixed that.
    Edit: I don't have any problem. Try to begin a new game.
    OK, bug found and eliminated. It was a typo, which somehow didn't get triggered when I was initially playtesting it. Updating it soon.

    Bug solved. Also solved the TUTOR bug, so now it goes off by pressing page up as it should. Post link updated. Thank you for the mention :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    #6
  7. Rhino

    Rhino Champion Snoozer

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    I think the door to your classroom should be player touch to match all of the other opening doors.

    If you try to leave the dungeon via the stairs, there's a text cut off 'The only way to....'

    Your dialogue is hilarious though. I am certainly one of those people who run in fear of java. I tried to do this without any knowledge of the 'object oriented programming' and you're right about not being able to make it to then end :hswt: Unfortunately I don't think I'm ever going to be interested in all this technical stuff, but I did enjoy the layout of your lesson and think it was really neat the way the console has been included. (I thought it was only used to pop up infuriating bugs hahaha.)

    So I wasn't really able to do this lesson. :kaoback:I know it's probably aimed at advanced users anyway, but it might still help to give a few more hints/make them not hidden (I just think it might add an extra layer of complicated onto an already tricky subject).

    I think the school possibly needs to have a section for more advanced lessons, because I have to say if I was just starting out I would be very confused and scared by this lesson. As of now I'm just trying to convince myself that it's just not my area rather than admit to being an idiot. :guffaw:

    Nice job on it anyway! Your character is intriguing and the lesson seems very well polished. :kaoluv:
     
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  8. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom

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    Oh, so one dialogue bug slipped through my attention after all :D I am always aware of them, so how could that happen :kaoswt2: While I am at it, I'll fix the doors too :)

    Thanks a bunch for the feedback though! Glad you liked the layout and that you didn't find any serious bugs :kaoluv:
    Leaving java vs. javascript thing aside, I have to answer your feedback a bit :}
    First of all the aspect of difficulty. You understandably said that witout object oriented programming you were lost. But that is why I gave my character, as well as my classroom, an evil-ish look. He also says what you need to know, gives you an option to decline and also gives you the option to drop out at almost any given time.
    I will consider the hints, especially if I get more feedback. However, I will not give the option to skip puzzle... It's an obstacle course, an event in the arena, watched by huge crowd. Poryg, as a successful host of this event, cannot by any means lose his prestige by giving the contestant a free pass through the obstacle. 1. The crowd would boo him off, 2. Nobody from his dimension would ever bet on the question when the contestant drops out, which means a loss of quite a bit of income and leads to ticket price increase and well... A complete breakdown of the obstacle course as an entertainment for his fellow people. Then he'd have no prestige, so he would have never earned enough money to keep castle Coddos from deteriorating...

    But back to serious :D I will consider some more tips and maybe a clearer explanation as well as explanation of the solution, although before I do anything, I'll wait for more feedback.
    I will keep the solutions hidden though, that I know for sure.
    When I was making the lesson, I gave that a huge thought. I knew many people were going to fail or need solution, especially on their first try. However, there was one problem.
    When there's an easy solution, people will go for it, because it is more convenient. That is why they use plugins instead of making their own stuff. That is why they use engines. Why they use mixers instead of chopping it manually. Etc.
    And if I provide the solution at reach, then it is simple to say "Nah, screw it, I don't get it." even if you do have the capacities to work it out. So I decided to hide the solution. However, to not make it too difficult to find, I hid it in distinct places. Spikes, wooden chest, angel, hole in the wall (or whatever it is)... Pretty intuitive choices in regards to the remaining terrain around the lesson.

    And yeah, don't worry that you did not pass. I expected quite a bit of people to fail, which is why I encouraged them to return later :)
    And no, you aren't an idiot, I hope. Well, even if you are, it's not the reason why you failed :D
    If you gave me paper, a pencil and told me to draw something, I wouldn't pass either. Because in all honesty I draw like a grade schooler :D But that is why people gather to communities - different people share their unique talents for the good of the group... :)

    P.S I think there will be sections for more advanced stuff, since there will be more floors... As well as, from what I've read, lessons being grouped according to their difficulty as well as "story line" if I say it like that. I don't think Touch would let beginners jump straight to difficult stuff :)
     
    #8
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  9. Joy Diamond

    Joy Diamond Talkative

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    Poryg,

    Thanks for the lesson -- you obviously put a lot of thought into it. As an RPG experience, it is superbly done (atmosphere, challenges, etc).

    I was able to complete the course; however, I have been programming for 40+ years, and even I found it a challenge (plus I've programmed in JavaScript ...) ...

    First, as a programmer, I was delighted with the console ...

    Secondly, I doubt most people, even programmers, would be able to complete the challenges. Here are the issues & suggestions on how to fix them:
    • The first puzzle, I solved easily.
    • Small suggestion, have the skeleton move out of the way after I solve the first puzzle, so I don't have to walk around it. Makes it more obvious I solved the puzzle!
    • I get errors when opening the debug console. Might be good to warn the user this will happen & to ignore them
    • It is really really hard to remember the dialog & type it into the debugger.
    • I strongly suggest, you explain to the user, that they can drag the console next to the game (instead of over it), so they are side by side, and that way they can see both -- and that way they don't have to open/close the console all the time.
    move.png
    • The second puzzle, it gets harder ...
    • It is really really hard to remember the dialog & type it into the debugger.
    • (See picture above about explaining to the user about putting the debugger next to the game window instead of over it)
    • Also, as the second puzzle you are covering too much information:
    tmi.png

    • It is already very difficult for users to type $gameActors.actor(1) -- giving them a choice here, is really confusing. So I strongly suggest you remove $gameParty.members()[0] (and also the later explanation on array's .vs. functions)
    • The screaming chest (which for atmosphere is great) it gets really hard.
    • Again, I get confused between $gameVariables & $gameSwitches. I strongly suggest only explaining $gameSwitches (and leave out the $gameVariable).
    • Also there are some minor bugs, when after solving the chest, one of the popup's is stuck (fortunately it disappears after you move up to the fourth puzzle) -- still you have to move around with only seeing 1/4th of the screen
    • The fourth puzzle where you need to assign a value -- most people will fail here.
    • The explanation of strings, again is too much. Just explain it's an array
    • Most importantly, a non-programmer will have no idea they are supposed to use an '=' to assign a value (you did not explain this to them).
    • This is doubly confusing as they have been (so far) been learning that they normally use .setValue or .setSwitch to set a value & now suddendly they are expected to know to use '=' to assign an array :eek:
    • I loved the boss battle. Really great animation & atmosphere.
    • Also if you got past the previous puzzle (figuring out you need to use '=' to assign), this puzzle is pretty easy.
    Anyway, again thanks for making this -- I hope you appreciate the slightly brutal feedback -- it's meant in the spirit of helping you improve your great MV school lesson.
    Sincerely,

    Joy Diamond
     
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  10. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom

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    Thank you for the killer feedback :D
    In all honesty, when I built the lesson, I expected a high fail rate. That is why I gave the player the ability to find a solution or chicken out and return later. However, I agree that some things are unnecessarily complicated and need simplification. I'll take a look at it. Although I won't be addressing everything.
    I'll say a word about the errors, because these are sometimes startling even me. I'll also take a look at the skeleton. However, I have to decline this one:
    Moving programs around is a basic program manipulation, it has nothing to do with MV. Also, my laptop's resolution is 1366x768, so I can't fit both on the screen... But I don't mind, since there is a shortcut Alt+Tab, you don't need to close the console.
    I never encountered that, but I'll try to fix it :)
    setValue and setSwitch is specifically defined for variables and switches, it is explained there. Assigning a value to something using = is basic javascript though and the first thing you learn after console.log ("Hello world" are assignment operations using =, followed by array operations. = is such a basic part of any mathematical operations I don't feel it is necessary to explain it.

    Yeah, that is the point of the boss :D I wanted the boss to be easy if you passed the previous challenge, but scary if you don't know what are you doing.
     
    #10

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