Let's Learn Trivia Together!

[Ms Littlefish]

Do you guys like learning fun facts? I like fun facts.


The discussion started in another thread. But, pretty much I'm sure all of us get questions in our head that turn into a long string of Google searches. And usually we ask even more questions based on our previous search, and search even more. The end result being we probably learned something pretty neat!


I think it would be a great group exercise if we all try to answer our questions together. Maybe someone out there is an expert, or maybe two brains are just better than one.


This could be wonderful for game making and world building. Or, maybe you have something on your mind that's just really bugging you. So, have a question? Let's talk about it! And hey, let's link our sources when we're sharing information.

 

[Ekanselttar]

Great idea Ms.Fish,I've had this question bugging me


Are there really two Scarface movies?

 

[Ms Littlefish]

A quick search reveals that one "Scarface: The Shame of a Nation" was made in 1932. And that there was a film in 1983. After that I searched "Is Scarface 1983 a remake," which took me to the Wikipedia page confirming it was a remake of the 1932 film. Also, apparently there is a rapper by the name of Scarface. XD


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_(1983_film)

 

[Alkorri]

Hey there, Ms Littlefish!  Hope you don't mind my repeating something that I said: Is it possible for habitable alien worlds to have blue grass, green skies and purple leaves like you see in movies and art sometimes? What sort of conditions do there need to be? Eg different coloured sun? 

 

[Ms Littlefish]

Alkorri, I'll start with the plants since that will be a definite strength of mine. I think the first thing you'd have to consider is "why are plants green?"  To put as simply as possible is because of the pigment chlorophyll, which absorbs both red and blue wave lengths of light and reflects green wave lengths. There are; however, several other accessory pigments (carotenoids) present in plants. But there is a significant reason why green is the dominant color. The green pigment mentioned earlier is the primary player in photosynthesis. Other pigments can participate, but chlorophyll is most efficient.


So, I think the imagining of different colored plants comes down to the pigments and their role in photosynthesis. Most carotenoids also absorb blue light and blue is actually the rarest color to naturally occur in plant life. However, Earth still does provide us many examples of plants that are primarily red or violet with little to no green at all. These red plants still have chlorophyll but the presence of other pigments (anthocyanins) overpower the color. 


A lot is still not understood but it's currently thought that in some high-light environments red pigments can still preform as well as their green counterparts and even provide the plant protection from photo-burning. In fact, a red or violet tree growing in the shade will have a dingy color because it will try to produce the more efficient chlorophyll, which of course color theory teaches us that green and red cancel each other out. So maybe with some imagination, an alien world close to the sun could conceivably have red or violet plant life.


Now, I'm going to start Googling about the sky. I think I have some ideas already, but I definitely want to find out more. 

 

[Alkorri]

Oohs and gets the popcorn 


This is useful! And you explained it so well. Sorry, didn't mean to present you with a whale of a question XD

 

[Sausage_Boi]

How does Brownian Motion work?

 

[jonthefox]

Do other animals (non-humans) see the same kinds of colors we do, or do they perceive the world in black and white? or in colors/light frequencies that we ourselves are unable to see? Do vertebrates have more sophisticated color perception than invertebrates?  Do invertebrates still perceive the world in 3 dimensions? 

 

[hiddenone]

Jonthefox, it depends on the animal.  We (assuming everyone on the forum is human ) see colors we see because we have three different types of cone cells in our eyes that let us see red, green, and blue.  Other animals, like cats and dogs, only have two types of cone cells which means they can't see the same colors as us.  However, they are not completely colorblind.  Dogs can't distinguish between red and green, so they kinda see the world like someone who is red-green colorblind (so if someone told you dogs like to pee on fire hydrants because they're bright red, they were wrong).  Some animals like birds actually have more cones than humans, so they possibly see more colors than we do.  Birds (and some fish) can see ultraviolet along with red, green and blue.


Vertebrates don't necessarily have more sophisticated color perception than invertebrates, it's just different.  Bees are a good example: they have three types of cones and color vision, but what they see is not the same as us.  They can see ultraviolet, which helps them locate flowers (I think most flowers end up looking like targets to them).  As for your question about invertebrates seeing in 3 dimensions, I don't know if anyone is completely sure but the answer could be yes (a test was done that tested 3-D vision by putting tiny 3-D glasses on praying mantises!).


This article has some pretty neat pictures that compare our vision: http://nautil.us/issue/11/light/how-animals-see-the-world

 

[Ms Littlefish]

Ok, so changing the color of the sky took a lot of digging. And actually, I'm still not sure of anything! XD


First, I Googled. “Why is the sky blue?” Kind of a funny thing to Google because I know the sky is blue because of the gases in our atmosphere and Rayleigh scattering. Unlike reflecting light as seen in the plant pigments, gases in the atmosphere scatter light. Blue light is scattered in a higher frequency because of its short wavelengths. At sunset, the sky appears red because the sun has gotten lower and needs to pass through even more of the atmosphere thus allowing the scattering to become more pronounced.


http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/blue-sky/en/


So, I knew that! But the next thing I wondered was knowing that our atmosphere is mostly nitrogen and oxygen; would atmospheric composition affect the color of the sky?


Unfortunately that search didn't provide many conclusive results. Sort of a “yes” but with few actual examples. It seems some gases and substances themselves provide their own color to their atmosphere, in addition to the effects of Rayleigh scattering. But many of these gases and dusts are stuff that human-like lifeforms would not be too keen on breathing in. Iodine gas is purple. Cool. Do I want to huff it? Probably not.


http://cosmoquest.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-136095.html


http://askascientist.co.uk/space/martian-sky-red/


https://www.quora.com/The-sky-is-blue-on-earth-What-color-is-the-sky-on-other-planets-in-our-solar-system


https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-colour-of-the-sky-change-with-atmospheric-composition


Basically, I got the impression that habitable planets (to us) would probably tend to have a blue sky. However, one thing that did keep popping up is that the sky would appear purple if the human eye could see more colors! 


Next, I looked into the star color component Alkorri suggested. Would a different color star make the sky a different color?


Something I did find was this Youtube video. I cannot say how accurate it is, but it may provide some idea of how a red or blue star might affect the sky on Earth. Seems a blue star would pull us more indigo and red stars would make our sky appear like a sunset and bring out those orange and red tones. Of course being third from any of these stars probably wouldn't bode well for life on Earth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywvUTWPlBhM


http://oneminuteastronomer.com/708/star-colors-explained/


It seemed to me based on my searches that blue is definitely going to be favored just because of how Rayleigh scattering works and because of the ingredients needed to sustain life (as we know it), and that star color could affect the intensity of sky color. If your alien life needs different life ingredients, or if your humans are well equipped for hostile conditions, different sky color does seem possible but mostly through the addition of gases and dusts.


Now, I'm just a chick with Google. I'd really love to see if anyone else knows more about this or can find more because I'd really dig a purple or green (clear) sky grounded somewhere in science. Hope someone else looks up more!

 

[Alkorri]

Oh my, this is impressive, Ms Littlefish! You went above and beyond the call of duty XD As soon as I'm not rushing for another plane, I will read this at leisure Thank you so much!

 

[LaFlibuste]

So, I think the imagining of different colored plants comes down to the pigments and their role in photosynthesis. Most carotenoids also absorb blue light and blue is actually the rarest color to naturally occur in plant life. However, Earth still does provide us many examples of plants that are primarily red or violet with little to no green at all. These red plants still have chlorophyll but the presence of other pigments (anthocyanins) overpower the color. 


A lot is still not understood but it's currently thought that in some high-light environments red pigments can still preform as well as their green counterparts and even provide the plant protection from photo-burning. In fact, a red or violet tree growing in the shade will have a dingy color because it will try to produce the more efficient chlorophyll, which of course color theory teaches us that green and red cancel each other out. So maybe with some imagination, an alien world close to the sun could conceivably have red or violet plant life.

First off, I want to point out I'm no chemist or astrophysician, I'm mostly speculating and all I say here could be total bull, but mostly it's a thought to consider:

I think your reply mostly fits if it's an earth-like environment, but who says an earth-like environment is an absolute prerequisite for life? It's definitely an absolute pre-requisite for earth-like life, but couldn't some other kinds of vastly different lifeforms be possible in other environments? What even makes life possible? I'd take a pretty wild guess and say life is, at its core, something that consumes energy. 

For next bit, it would help if you knew of something called the fire triangle. In ordre to have fire (i.e. combustion, or an energy release), you need 3 things: heat, fuel and an oxydizer. For example, you can heat wood and on earth it will generally use oxygen to burn and release energy. Life generally burns various types of sugar, instead.

So our world is like it is because of its chemical composition, but there are other oxydizers (chlore, for example). Could life evolve on a chloric planet? Maybe. But it would definitely be vastly different from here. Nothing says plants would store the sun's energy using chlorophilia (and thus be green) in a chloric environment. Maybe the sky would be a different color, too. On earth, it is the color is is because of the air's composition. But if it was a different mix, including chlore, instead of azot and oxygen, which color would it be? Could it be red, green? I have no idea, but I guess a chemist or physicist would. By the way, that's how scientist can know the general chemical composition of a planet without actually going there: they study the light spectrum of the light it reflects. Depending on what wavelength are missing, they can tell what it's atmosphere is like and stuff like that. Pretty amazing. You should check Cosmos: a spacetime odyssey documentary series if you haven't, it's really well made, instructive yet accessible to pretty much anybody. I highly recommend it

 

[Ms Littlefish]

@LaFlibuste Yeah, I definitely framed my line of thinking because habitable was specified in the question. I agree an appropriate follow up is "habitable to who and what?" Personally, I don't know enough about alternative biochemistry to even begin running through those possibilities. Extraterrestrial life probably would be quite different from us, even if found on a similar planet. And, I do think it's pretty cool what is already plausible without needing to change the building blocks of life.


It is very correct to point out that a celestial body doesn't have to be habitable to humans, or even innately Earth-like, to harbor life. Jupiter's frozen moon Europa is often mentioned for the possibility of primitive ocean life due to having an abundance of liquid water, being geologically active, and with other carbon-based building blocks. The possibility of life arising with alternative biochemistry needs to be met with a very open mind. But, with our current knowledge I also think that it makes sense why we tend to look for similarities to our own planet. 


@Alkorri Just found a lot more to consider for plant color in a NASA article that cites the importance of star color and scattering of light in determining what pigments may rise as the dominant player in exoplanet photosynthesis. I also linked another fantastic article by the same scientist mentioned in the first NASA piece. And funnily enough, sky color has come back into the discussion for plant color! Now, I really need to get to the bottom of the sky! Looks like a blue star may get you those blue plants.


http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2007/spectrum_plants.html


https://www.ebscohost.com/uploads/imported/thisTopic-dbTopic-1033.pdf


And, because of this I'd like to ask. Anyone have any good materials and thoughts on alternative biochemistry?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_types_of_biochemistry


http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2011/05/stephen-hawking-on-non-carbon-based-alien-life.html

 

[Nakamaru]

it's a shame we born too early to explore the stars :'

 

[captainproton]

"I'm just a chick with Google."


Aren't we all, @Ms Littlefish?  Aren't we all?

 

[Luck Of Kurisu Saimon Des]

 try asking google why we are here ...