Let's talk about LOVE!

[Evan Finkel]

Dude, it's the internet.

And I mean... you have a Brokeback Mountain avatar.

I didn't find anything wrong with the avatar?

 

[Ruby]

I didn't find anything wrong with the avatar?

Neither did anyone else. That's what he's saying.

 

[Prescott]

I didn't find anything wrong with the avatar?

Dude just talk about love. If you're gay, great. If you're straight, whatever. Nobody cares.

 

[Evan Finkel]

@ReddElite: Sorry for taking your message the wrong way.

 

[whitesphere]

I have known one same-sex couple for over 10 years and from what I see and hear from them, the love between the people involved feels the same.  There are interesting differences such as women can feel safer with other women so they get closer, emotionally, far more quickly than the average woman does with the average man.  But overall, it's the same feelings. 

So I don't see why someone being gay means they have nothing to say about love. 

I don't feel the emotion of love itself is restricted to a particular culture, but do believe the specifics vary profoundly between cultures.  Even Western cultures vary wildly --- several thousand years ago, if you were royalty, it was assumed you'd have multiple wives, since you could financially provide for them, why not?

I think you can tell a lot about a culture's priorities from how it responds to love (in all its flavors), sex and violence.

 

[Tai_MT]

Well, I'm bored.  Let me see if I can add anything to this discussion beyond my own personal experiences.

Let me start by saying that I've been in 37 failed relationships.  Yes, I keep score.  I realize I'm probably alone in this, but it helps to keep perspective.  The more you remember about your failures, the more you can figure out how to have successes.  Of those 37 failed relationships, roughly 33 of them were Online and while I was growing up as a young and awkward teenager.  The other four were real life examples that happened in the last... almost 10 years I guess?  Since getting out of High School.  Of those 37 relationships, 13 of which ended because I had cheated, 20 had ended because I was cheated on, and 4 had ended because I apparently date unrealistic psychotic women (and one man).

So, what we've got here is a resume for a really long list of "terrible love life" here.  It isn't pretty, but it teaches you quite a lot.

Let's get into the list of my sins here first.  It'll be easier and make more sense in context later when I tell you what I think about love.  Every time I cheated it was for one of three reasons:  1.  Sexual Attention.  2.  Emotional Attention.  3.  Abject Boredom And Because I Could.  None of them all were very good reasons...  But hey, I was a teenager filled with hormones and inexperience.  Things like that tend to change when you realize just how painful being cheated on is (if you have any sort of morals at all, anyway) and you stop doing it.  But...  It's kind of like a drug.  It's why I adopted the saying "Once a cheater, always a cheater", because it turns into almost an addiction.  It's very hard to quit and it makes you very untrustworthy to smart people of the opposite sex.  It's an intoxicating habit that took me somewhere along the lines of 3 years total to kick.  Those were the years after I'd gotten out of High school and decided that I wouldn't try to date again until I'd kicked the addiction of it.

When I got back into dating, I discovered that most women I knew were extremely needy and somewhat self-absorbed.  I decided that I'd try to date a guy at that point.  I figured, "Hey, I'm kind of into that scene and my best friend swings for the other team, so it must not be all bad".  My experiences with that were pretty much the same as dating women:  Extremely needy and somewhat self-absorbed people.  So, I went back to dating women instead.  I found that older women were really no different than any of the girls I'd encountered in High School, except that now they were older and demanded more because they were older.

So, with all that nonsense out of the way and most of my bases covered...  Let's jump in to what I actually think about love.

You see, in all that time, in all those relationships, I'd never really felt anything remotely close to what everyone refers to as "love".  Near as I can tell, "love" is basically that 6 month euphoria all new couples feel when they first get together before they ever start getting on each others nerves.  That euphoria is the very reason "rebound dating" exists.  It's the attempt to fill the void of loss with the euphoria of a new person to date.  Basically, it's a sham that your body plays on your mind and most people aren't smart enough to figure that out.  Love, near as I can tell from the standpoint of anything beyond that 6 month euphoria is merely "partnership in order to raise children together".  I tend to think the reason we have so many unwed mothers and divorces in The United States is because we are a society that propagates the lie of love as a never-ending 6 month euphoria.  Our romantic comedies portray love happening in the space of ten minutes and "madly deeply in love" after the space of a week between characters...  Even our children's films (what I call "The Disney Effect") do this same thing.  Ariel falls in love after a single glance at a man and has a witch tell her to get kissed within 3 days by that man or she'll have her soul sucked out (imagine what this tells our young daughters!).  Beauty and The Beast is about a woman who is already madly in love with a man, but he's so uncivilized and such a jerk that she has to basically spend the entire movie reforming him and teaching him how to be a better person...  at which point he falls in love with her (now imagine what that teaches our daughters!) and they live happily ever after.  The list just goes on and on, teaching love as that 6 month euphoria instead of what it actually is:

Love is hard freakin' work.  That's what love is.  Real.  True.  Honest.  Forever love...  That's all really freakin' hard work.  It isn't about being selfless or being romantic or getting a lot of sex.  It's about learning how to tolerate each other, respect each other, and find ways to be happy with each other.  It's about admitting when you're wrong and not gloating when you're right (I know there are a bajillion jokes about women never admitting they're wrong and brow-beating men into admitting that women are always right...  But, these women should be avoided like the plague because they are looking for control and not for love.  Ladies, if your man acts that way, you do the same).

"True Love" will never be found in some book or movie or animated epic.  True Love can't be found in a game, television series, or role playing session.  The definition of True Love is a couple staying together through everything life could throw at them and staying that way until one or both of them die.  Real love is a partnership.  Equal in all ways.  Lies never told between the two, especially not to make them feel good about themselves.  A good partner will value honest criticism.  A good partner is essentially your best friend.  As in, you can make fun of them a bit, and they can make fun of you back.  It's the unique pairing between two people that makes them both go "all in" on any silly thing they'd want to do just because it's much more fun together than it would ever be alone.  A good partner won't be someone you "make time" for or ignore friendships for.  Your good partner will happily come along with you and your friends and goof off with them (without being all stupidly lovey dovey in public, because it's not necessary) or will let you hang out solo because it's helpful to have time to decompress away from each other.  A good partner, your best friend, will automatically make you a better person without them trying and you will have the same effect on them.  That is True Love.  It is so rare that it almost does not exist anymore.

As for "family love" or "love of humanity", I can't speak on either of those topics.  1.  My childhood was...  Well, not so great.  I'm somewhat anti-social as well as a sociopath with some psychopathic tendencies because of it.  I have a hard time developing familial bonds because of it.  It's not really something I'm qualified to talk about as I'm not even sure what it is.  2.  The longer I live, the more I wish humanity would be wiped off the face of the planet for all the rampant stupidity.  It's hard to go "awww, that sucks, that kid got electrocuted to death because he stuck a knife in the light socket" when all you can think of is "that's one less moron on the planet, and I hope the inattentive mother and father don't reproduce again".

So, what's the closest I've ever been to actual love that wasn't 6 month euphoria induced?  My best friend was probably the closest to it.  I spent almost all my time with him and we got good at a lot of things together.  We were constantly challenging each other and testing each other and doing all sorts of stuff together.  We could reach each other's minds and finish each others sentences...  But, that got rather rough and without going into too many details...  We're not really friends anymore.  But, I'm looking for a woman who can do that.  The other two times I got close?  My ex.  She's the only one I refer to as "my ex", and I guess that's because she's really the only relationship I ever considered "real".  Most of our relationship was pretty bad and toxic and horrifying.  I cheated on her, she cheated on me, we had knock-down drag-out fights...  Then, I just exploded on her one time.  I let her have everything I'd ever wanted to say to her all at once.  She didn't talk to me for 3 years.  When she finally came back to talk to me again, she'd changed.  When I talked to her again, I realized I had changed as well.  Since then, we've been really great friends and she calls me every so often just to talk or catch up.  I'm not sure if she actually still loves me (she says she does all the time, but it's so hard to tell with women when 'love' is a synonym for 'I enjoy your company' most of the time) or if I actually still love her (even though I tell her I do in reply to her saying it to me).  But, it's one of the best friendships I've ever had.  Plus, it's pretty satisfying when she's having relationship problems and her boyfriend is pulling all the same stuff on her that she used to pull on me.  And the last girl I was close to "love" with was this hot little green eyed redheaded gal that spent something like 8 months with me.  It was almost an entirely physical relationship, to be sure (which is why it ended and never went anywhere), but it was one of the most emotionally satisfying relationships I'd ever had.  Everything was always just so easy with her and our faces always hurt from how much we were smiling or laughing.  But, again, with nothing more than the physical to build on, the relationship fizzled out and went nowhere.  I'm still good friends with her and keep up with everything going on with her, but that's the most recent one where I got close to actual "love".

So, in short, yes I believe in love.  No, I don't believe it's the same thing everyone else talks about or experiences.  The love everyone talks about is the fleeting kind.  It's the kind where if things suddenly go south you'll have a new person in a month or less time and have all but forgotten about the person you were last with... And you'll also only ever say really terrible things about the last person you were with, despite being "in love" with them.  The kind of love I believe in is the "hard work" kind in which communication and understanding are far more important than anything physical you could do together.  Real love takes years to get over instead of weeks or months and sometimes you never recover from it, but you push on anyway.  That's the kind of love I believe in.  Why?  Because I've experienced it.  Surely, I can't be the only one.

 

[Nuclear Mosquito]

I'm also going to throw in my 5 cents.

I'm going to quote a phrase that encapsulates my experience of love:

"Love is giving someone the power to destroy you, but trusting them not to..."

Of course this isn't the only facet of love, but it sums up one of them.

The last girl I went out with was the girl I'd thought I'd marry one day, but she left me for another guy as soon as she had the assurance that he'd make her his girlfriend. It caused some major psychological scarring to me and I fell into depression. To this day I'm too scared to go into a relationship, and that was 4 years ago that it had happened. In my case she did use the power to destroy me

 

[byronclaude]

I always assumed that true love is when there is one last slice of pizza, and you give it to your lover because they mean that much to you o.0 Is that not true love?!

That is the perfect metaphor for true love! 

 

[Onomotopoeia]

I believe Tai_MT and Nuclear Mosquito said quite a bit that is true about what love is, and is not. Thus, the likes for their posts. Also, a healthy dose of compassion to the both of you, for your individual experiences, if it helps any.

 

[orochii]

I always assumed that true love is when there is one last slice of pizza, and you give it to your lover because they mean that much to you o.0 Is that not true love?!

I WOULD GIVE HER ALL MY PIZZA! But it's more fun and has more meaning to share it.

Tai, you almost made me cry. But I didn't, these tears are because of a cloud of dust that randomly passed in front of my face.

 

[whitesphere]

Sometimes, the hardest thing to learn is that, if in your love, you completely ignore your own needs, you're depleting your ability to love another.  What you're doing is then completely relying on this other, independent being to fill ALL of your needs.  But, since s/he is an independent being, there WILL be times the person cannot, even with the best of intentions.  And thus starts resentment and the beginning of the end of the relationship.

This is true with any type of love, be it romantic, familial or whatever. 

Genuinely loving yourself does not place you above or below another, nor does it need to prove anything, but does make you a more emotionally whole person who ends up having that much more to give, since it does not deplete or run up a debt, like relying completely on someone else to fill you up, does.

 

[Tai_MT]

Wow, I honestly did not expect to get any "Likes" to my post in here, or even replies (since it was so long and roundabout).  I also did not expect to make someone almost cry, ha ha.  I don't think it's really that sad of a story...  Pretty sure everyone has a love life story like that.

Still, I appreciate the support.  Hopefully now at least some of you understand my point of view on the whole "I don't believe in love" thing that I'm preaching about every so often in the status feed.

 

[bluebird]

I believe in true love, soulmates, things of that nature.  I also think that's hella hard to find though, and why most of the truest love stories we'll ever have comes in the form of books, games, movies, and shows.  

That being said, there is also so much gray area....For example, I've been friends with a guy I met online for over 2 years now.  This weekend we're going to meet for the first time.  There's a lot of tension in that, I suppose because we tend to act/feel as if there's something more there than just simple friendship.  I've worried and fretted in the weeks coming up to this and still don't rightly know if there is a label for what we have right now- or if that will be changed upon meeting.  

 

[mlogan]

Awwww, bluebird, I wish you much luck with this weekend. My husband and I met online, so I completely understand how you are feeling. I know for us, though I questioned the wisdom of meeting in person, all I could think about was that if we didn't, I would always wonder "what if" and it was a chance I had to take. If you need to chat about it, feel free to pm me.

 

[Galenmereth]

Love is what fills the void that keeps haunting my shadow. I wrote about it at some point:

Spoiler

It was the most spectacular view I’d ever seen; the sunset was like a raging wildfire spreading through the sky and the sea, a stunning display of nature’s innate beauty.

“So beautiful,” she said, whispering.

I looked at her; reluctantly at first, fearing I’d break the moment by averting my eyes for even a second. But that’s how much she meant to me.

“There’s something I need to tell you,” I started, but she cut me off.

“What is really the point of it all?”

She looked straight into my eyes.

“I’m so tired of fighting for my right to be me all the time,” she said, her eyes slowly overflowing with tears.

“When will it end?”

Her head on her knees, she hugged herself and cried; silent sobs that shook her tiny body. Now was not the time.

“You know, sitting here and looking at this view and wondering what’s the point,” I said, pausing to get the trail of thought right.

“Isn’t that enough? To be able to ask why in the face of this beauty? To be able to share it with the person you love?”

She grew still. The sun sank silently into its pool of fire. It was all too little, too late.

 

[Venka]

Me and my husband met online playing a MMO We were friends first and didn't realize more was starting to happen for about a year and a half. When he broke down and professed his feelings for me. Which he'll tell you is the scariest and best thing he ever did, all rolled into one.

We spend probably another 6 months trying to do the long distance thing and he'd try to get training classes or holiday weekends to come down and see me. Then we were finally able to move in together and married another year or two later. We've been together for 11 years now.

But while we're on the subject of what is love. I never thought I wanted kids and I ended up getting pregnant. It was a horrible experience and I was sick the whole time. The last couple of months I couldn't eat or drink anything without loosing it. I started eating what I knew didn't taste as bad on the way out =P I was in the hospital trying to deliver for 2 days when things started to get critical and ended up going with a C-Section. And I was still cursing my lucky for getting pregnant... then I heard the baby's first cry and ALL of that changed. We were expecting a boy and had a name picked out. The doc thought she was funny cause she got the baby and asked what we were naming him.. and said well, welcome your baby girl! Well we had a back up plan and had a name for her anyway.

I know it's harmones and it washes over you.. but for the first 6 months of her little life I could just look at her and burst into tears because I loved her so much. And while I try to kill my husband any time he joking suggest we should have another child, I couldn't imagine life without our child now.

She can smile or do something funny and it just lightens the whole day. I love watching her learn and experience things for the first time. I had forgotten how fun some things were.. like the Hokey Pokey song. I'd forgotten how much I loved that little song when I was young

 

[_Shadow_]

What  a great topic!

I respect words.

Words have power.

Love is one of the strongest ones.

Love is the strongest feeling. It can make you feel all the other feelings, yet is is abstract, voerwhelming and strong.

What @NuclearMosquito said is correct.

Some people believe that daring dying for someone is a proof of love.

But that's wrong really.

Daring LIVING for someone is what love is about!

Think about it.

Think about your parents.

If you are parents, think about how you do EVERYTHING for your kids.

If you got no kids, think about your husbands your wife...

 

[Touchfuzzy]

How did this get to page 3 without anyone typing "Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more"?

 

[Tai_MT]

'Cause I refrained from turning the topic into a joke and decided to take it seriously while I was bored

 

[Nivlacart]

LOL @ Touchfuzzy

I haven't experienced a lot of love, I was in an all-boys school up til' high school, and I'm assuredly straight, so there was definitely no success there.

Since coming into new schools I've met some friends of the opposite sex that I'm close-knit with, and although I'm content with just being friends, sometimes I do wonder whether I could try dating them. I have been in one train crash of a relationship before, so I don't have a lot of confidence in the area of romance. Not to mention I'm worried that even if I did pursue, or even managed to get attached, would I wonder too much about what it'd be like to date the other girls I've known, enough to make me unfaithful or even cheat?

Game Design's still my one true love BAHAHAHAHA but y'know, sometimes a guy gets lonely. Mannn. Love seems like some tough stuff.