Lets talk Zelda

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by BlueFlamePrince, May 25, 2018.

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  1. KrimsonKatt

    KrimsonKatt Pyromancer Veteran

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    If I lived in hyrule, I would like to be a Zora since I love the ocean and swimming is fun! Also I believe that any race can become a Sheikah though a special ritual, as it is said that the only thing separating the appearance of non Sheikah and Sheikah is their red eyes. Impa and other "Sheikah" in Breath of the Wild are not Sheikah, and are most likely people who wish to keep the spirit and culture of the Sheikah alive. Breath of the Wild does not exist in the downfall timeline, as it exists in a merged timeline as shown in Hyrule Encyclopedia. (Hyrule Historia 2) The reason the timelines merged is also unknown, but may be linked to ancient sheikah technology or the birth of calamity ganon. Also Zelda saying in the final battle of BotW "Ganon has given up on reincarnation and assumed his true enraged form." is actually a mistranslation, as she said the exact opposite in the original japanese script. The master sword is hidden in the lost woods in all games except Ocarina of Time, chronologically it's first appearance, (other than Skyward Sword) so it was likely moved after the events of OoT. BotW is a good game, but has many flaws that many people tend to overlook. Namely it's story and dungeons. (shrines included) My favorite Zelda game is BotW (I've logged over 700 hours between my two Wii U playthroughs and my three Switch playthroughs plus DLC.) my second favorite is Link Between Worlds on 3DS, and my third favorite is Majora's Mask. My least favorite is Zelda 1, and then Skyward Sword. I actually really like Zelda II, and am really hoping for a remake. That would probably be my fourth favorite. Then after that would be Link to the Past, then Link's Awakening, then Minish Cap, then Oracle Games, then Ocarina of Time, then Zelda I. I haven't played Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Triforce Heroes, Four Swords, or Four Sword Adventures. Out of the spinoffs I've only played the three versions of Hyrule Warriors, and have beaten only Majora's Mask, (95%) Link Between Worlds, (100%) and Breath of the Wild (100% base game no korok seeds) I agree with @Pine Towers about his theory with Bongo Bongo as it makes sense within the lore of OoT. I sorta treat BotW as a "soft reboot" of the franchise like what they did with God of War. I hope I added something meaningful to this conversation with my long essay of a post. Bye!
     
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  2. Kisai

    Kisai Veteran Veteran

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    I live in a desert now, so you might think Gerudo would apply to me, but I absolutely hate the desert. ;_; I never asked to come here. I miss my old home of Michigan, home of the great lakes, and it actually had grass, and trees! I miss stuff like that. I suppose a Zora would be fitting, given the giant bodies of water I'd be near, but I also love grass, trees, forests, which is something you almost never properly see in a desert, so maybe I'd be a Kokiri instead. It's hard to choose. It'd be kinda neat having a tree house, and fairies are my favorite fantasy creature. Having one as a companion would be pretty cool. But as a Zora, I could have a ton of swimming area in one of the great lakes, it would be wonderful. Sumnmers would be great, but Winters, I'm not too sure. I saw what happened to Zora's Domain in Ocarina of Time... Maybe I'll stick with being a Kokiri.

    The very first Zelda had a ton of open-world exploration. You could explore half the map before getting the ladder. Because of this, I feel open-world exploration is fundamental to a Zelda game, and from what I hear, we already got tons of that back in Breath of The Wild. I heard the dungeons were lacking though. Would it be too much to have a huge, open-world Hyrule to explore, with 8-9 complete dungeons, that could be tackled in almost any order? In the original Zelda, you actually could do a lot of the dungeons out of order, which is another option I'd like back.

    Also, I'd like to not see the Master Sword, believe it or not. 7-8 year old me is still taking Link to The Past's ending tag to heart about the Master Sword. I was fine seeing it return in Ocarina of Time for nostalgia's sake, but I'd honestly like to see a game that DOESN'T make it the sole focus. The original Legend of Zelda was just about a skilled adventurer with sword in hand, travelling the land and saving the world from evil. Almost every game since Link to The Past has been "There's Something About The Master Sword". I was pretty delighted with Skyward Sword NOT featuring the Master Sword, until I learned that's what the game was going for the whole time anyway. ¬_¬
     
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  3. newfarap

    newfarap Veteran Veteran

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    ive beaten every zelda game except skyward sword and the 2nd one on nes. very good games
     
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  4. Seacliff

    Seacliff RPG Maker Mastermind Veteran

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    The execution of the Four Sword in Minish Cap was refreshing for me and introduced a cool mechanic not possible with the Master Sword, so I'm fine if there are different legendary swords even if they follow similar tropes.

    But it would also be cool if we simply had fewer mcguffins in general, so I would definitely like to see more games with less focus on finding a sword of evil's bane. The Gilded Sword in Majora's Mask was cool because it wasn't legendary, so you have to stumble on the questline for creating it.
     
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  5. Canini

    Canini Veteran Veteran

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    I kinda wish Nintendo would try their hand at a sea-based exploration game again akin to wind waker. I was replaying that game, and while I remember enjoying exploring the islands and looking for treasure the islands themselves are most often that not really badly designed. Some are just rocks in the water housing a treaure or some enemy to vanquish. This also goes for the sky-exploration in Skyward Sword. The exploration-on-land aspect was tried in Twilight Princess, failed somewhat, and was perfected in Breath of the Wild. I kind of wish Nintendo would try the sea-based exploration again and make it better, perhaps in a submarine that can convert into a regular boat?
     
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  6. BlueFlamePrince

    BlueFlamePrince Veteran Veteran

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    Hey everyone its been a while but I'm back. I've been replaying Link to the Past and Wind Waker but they are randomizers.
    Ganon has made a wish on the triforce and randomized all items in Hyrule to slow Link down. So besides that the newish Zelda
    game has been announced and its Link Awakening for the Switch. The first handheld Zelda game has returned. So what do you
    guys think about it?

     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
    #46
  7. Engr. Adiktuzmiko

    Engr. Adiktuzmiko Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy' Veteran

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    It (Link's awakening) was the first and only Zelda game I ever played actually, not really a Zelda fan but I'm still kinda excited that its going to have a remake on the switch
     
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  8. BlueFlamePrince

    BlueFlamePrince Veteran Veteran

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    @Kisai Maybe Lake Floria could work. Its a lake where the Parella and Water Dragon lives in Skyward Sword.
    The parella are the ancestors to the Zoras. The lake is also part of Faron woods / lost woods. In Zelda BOTW
    Faron woods and the lost woods are two different places. Also Faron woods is more or less a rain forest in that game.

    Now when it comes to swords, it world be nice to see Link try a new one. Yet imagine if Link had a katana, a claymore,
    a saber, or a buster sword. Thanks to Zelda BOTW we can see some but not all. I think it would be ok if we had a change
    every once in a while even if its not the main sword.
     
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  9. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

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    Breath of the Wild is probably my favorite Zelda game, as it returned very heavily to what the original Zelda was about "wandering around and wandering into stuff" (I'm not actually a huge fan of the series)

    That said, it still has some major major flaws. (There is a reason I haven't beaten it yet). Most of which are that it entered itself into a very crowded field (the open world action game), without seeming to learn enough from the rest of the field. Like it has the climbing towers thing to reveal the map stuff, but it does it in the most boring and uninteresting way. It is literally imo the worst incarnation of that mechanic.

    Compared to climbing the tall necks from Horizon: Zero Dawn (which I consider the pinnacle of the genre), in which there were 1. Less of them, and 2. They were more interesting to climb, as it was more about navigating to figure out how to get on them than climbing them. and 3. There was VARIETY in them. Some the issue was enemies, some the issue was just the location.

    In Breath of the Wild that wasn't the case, it was just a boring, slow climb, and there were a lot of them.

    Also BotW went so free roam that it forgot to actually tell a story. Something Horizon: Zero Dawn did really, really well.

    Almost all the problems with BotW is that a better game in the same genre came out in the same year.
     
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  10. BlueFlamePrince

    BlueFlamePrince Veteran Veteran

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    I'm going to make this short but i'm wanting to do more zelda projects and i'm looking for help. Art, animation, videos, and other projects.
    If you have any questions send me a message where we don't fill this thread up with random posts. : ) I'm also looking for ways to grow
    this group.
     
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  11. NinjaKittyProductions

    NinjaKittyProductions Professional Murder Hobos Veteran

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    I have played most of the LoZ games and absolutely loved every single one of them. I have yet to play BotW or Skyward Sword yet.
    I have had the unfortunate 'pleasure' to play the three Zelda games that were not considered canonical: Zelda's Adventure, The Wand of Gamelon, and The Faces of Evil. These three games are extremely cringe worthy <_<
     
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  12. BlueFlamePrince

    BlueFlamePrince Veteran Veteran

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    @NinjaKittyProductions I own The Wand of Gamelon and when it comes to Zelda lore I've been working on a few projects
    but its just me so its going slow. Besides that I've been playing a few Randomizers too.
     
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  13. NinjaKittyProductions

    NinjaKittyProductions Professional Murder Hobos Veteran

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    @BlueFlamePrince I have an old zelda fan game project that I worked on back with vx ace. I didn't get very far on it however. Used a lot of placeholder tilesets and sprites... mainly worked on the databasing and storyboarding >_<
     
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  14. Gallimed

    Gallimed Villager Member

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    I love the Oracles games for their password system and completion of each others. Seasons was comfy while Ages felt better when it came to characters. I also wish they'd do a proper 3D game that features motion controls without all the handholding like they did for Skyward Sword.
     
    #54
  15. BlueFlamePrince

    BlueFlamePrince Veteran Veteran

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    @NinjaKittyProductions I had a basic start on a Zelda game too for MV but my computer crashed last year and I don't have my art program anymore. I had the lack of support with it too besides a few plug ins.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Also a reminder for everyone, I'm looking to put a Zelda group together. more details go back a few messages. main focus is videos btw.
     
    #55
  16. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    To be honest... I'm kind of ambivalent about Zelda.

    So I'll let you know what I've played (and beaten, if it applies) and then get into my reasons for the ambivalence.

    I've played and beaten:
    The Legend of Zelda (NES)
    Link's Adventure (Zelda II, also NES)
    Link's Awakening (Gameboy)
    Link's Awakening DX (Gameboy Color)
    Ocarina of Time (Nintendo 64)
    Oracle of Ages (Gameboy Color)
    Oracle of Seasons (Gameboy Color)
    Windwaker (Gamecube)
    Twilight Princess (Gamecube)
    Minish Cap (Gameboy Advance game, wasn't it? Or was it DS... can't recall)
    Link Between Worlds (DS)

    Games I've played but not beaten:
    Majora's Mask (Nintendo 64)
    A Link To The Past (SNES)
    Four Swords Adventure (Gameboy Advance? I only ever picked it up on DS, years later, as a promotional event)

    Anything not on this list... I've either forgotten or simply haven't played.

    The reason I'm usually ambivalent on the series in general is fairly obvious by just looking at what I've played and beaten and what I haven't. It's also a little obvious by just seeing which games in the series I have played. Some of the best... some of the worst.

    Now, what I generally expect from a Zelda game (and the main reason I've always played them) is the items and their usefulness. This is likely why I prefer the "top down" games over the "3D" ones. See, many of my favorite Zelda games give you an item and then expect you to be using it fairly constantly. My favorites of the franchise are Link's Awakening (which had a story that genuinely moved me as a teenager, and which was enough to get me interested in philosophy via its dialogue, signs, and owls) and then the Oracles games (which had some of the most fun puzzles and item usage I've ever seen). Going back to the point about item usage, using those games. Every item had a "set use" for it. You knew the basics of what it did. But, it could do more. If you were clever. I felt genuinely clever when I discovered you could jump 3 tiles with the Roc's Feather in Awakening via use of the Pegasus Boots (I don't know if the game ever tells you about this feature, but I discovered it on my own through experimentation). I accidently discovered "bomb arrows" by just trying to combine items together (the game will let you drop bombs at the same time you swing your sword, so I started trying things out for fun, to see if any of it could be useful). Awakening let you experiment with what it gave you. Parts of the game were locked off by discovering this information, but there were hidden places where if you knew something ahead of time, it made the trick easier... or made the place accessible. I liked that. Oracles does a lot of the same thing with their items. Introduce the basic function, and then introduce puzzles later that iterate on the concept. You could bounce seeds with the Seed Shooter. Some enemies were magnetic and you could use that to drop them into pits (the game only ever advertised some enemies as magnetic, but not all of them). The "teleport grapple" could be used on some enemies.

    That's what I generally look for in a Zelda game. It's what makes me the happiest to play as it's the most entertaining for me.

    Ocarina of Time didn't do those things for me. Every item in that game has exactly one use, and you'll use it in a handful of areas, and then never really need it again. The only use for the Megaton Hammer is "rusted switches", or fighting Ganon at the end of the game when he takes away your sword. Bottles can hold a variety of things, but you'll only ever use two items... fairies and bugs... and once you've gotten the Skulltulas from the patches for beanstocks, you'll never stock another bug. You can play "energy tennis" with them if you want... but that's true of most any item Link Holds in that game... so... ehhhhhhh….

    Many of the 3D games have this problem for me. A ton of items that are interesting only for their dungeon and never used again. Windwaker, in particular, made me angry for doing this. Where do you ever use that grapple hook outside of the dungeon you get it in? The main Town Hub? That's it. You can use it "for a crane", but I never did, because in a sea of rupees and nothing to spend them on... why bother? I like introduction to an item and then iteration on the concepts behind that item. Expanding on what it can do. Letting the player experiment with it and find new uses that make parts of the game easier, if they know them.

    That was part of my issue with Link to the Past. The items exist in that game as "road blocks" and nothing more. Can't go here, need a certain item. Do you use that item for anything else? No. You pull it out only when you need to come back to this location. Most locations, you need never return to again, so the item you gained becomes useless.

    My issue with Majora's Mask was a different one. After my third time of having to rewind time back to the beginning and do everything all over again... I was just done with the game. I had no desire to collect the moon's tear for a fourth time. I had no desire to collect all my rupees again. I had zero desire to finish the temple again. Just... no. I did it once, this mechanic is pretty freakin' dull, I don't want to do it again. I might've enjoyed the mechanic more if some of your progress didn't reset. Namely, anything you collected. Or... maybe... if the game let you rewind to SPECIFIC moments of time instead of "the very beginning". I didn't want to live the whole 3 days again. There's a reason movies like "Groundhog Day" are funny. It's funny because doing all the same crap every single day is a nightmare. Watching the person going crazy doing it... is funny. Playing a game trapped as that character? Yeah, I don't find that fun. Personally, I'd take the way out of Xena: Warrior Princess when she got stuck in a loop. Spend a few of those reiterations of the day murdering absolutely everyone, because why not? No consequences. Time resets. Majora's Mask lacks even the decency to allow the player to do this when the loops get dull. So, yeah, never finished it. Never will.

    As for Four Swords Adventure... Eh. The gameplay loop bores me. You hold temporary items to solve temporary puzzles and collect temporary rupees for no real purpose. Easy, the worst part of any Zelda game... is the hundreds or thousands of Rupees you collect that you can literally do nothing with. I'm not sure why they made this "hoarding" an entire game. if I could've at least spent them on like permanent upgrades or something... or starting a level with certain items... I might've felt a little better. But, as it is... just not a fun game. Though, I was pretty ecstatic in Twilight Princess when they gave me "Magic Armor" that drained Rupees in exchange for basically making you invincible. In that game, you trip over boxes of 100-500 rupees every 10 feet, and the reward for any quest is usually at least 100 rupees. You can put that armor on, and never have to take it off. You're effectively immortal for the rest of the game once you have it. I screamed, "Finally! SOMETHING I CAN SPEND MY RUPEES ON!". I never looked back. Best item in a Zelda game, ever.

    So, maybe that clears up some of why I'm ambivalent towards the series. The good games are pretty fantastic. Zelda, as a franchise, does some really cool things that few other franchises or even stand-alone games (indie or otherwise) do. It does them very well. But, it also does really crazy and stupid things. It sometimes forgets its roots and just makes a game I loathe. I'm not looking for a new "ocarina of time" every game. I'm not looking for a new "link's awakening" every game. I'm looking for the main staple of the series to be the driving force behind anything they do with it. Dungeons give you items, the rest of the game world iterates on the usage of those items and requires you use them frequently and often for new things. It lets you experiment with the items you have and discover fun new uses.

    I don't care if you have 4 Dungeons, as long as you stick to that principle. I might wish there were more, but if you followed that principle, I'm going to enjoy your game and be satisfied when I finish. I don't need 8 dungeons. I don't need a "deep and engaging combat system". All I need is for you to give me some tools and let me loose using them... and then design your game around some of the interesting things that can be accomplished with those tools.

    That's a Zelda game.

    As for the Lore and overall Timeline? I don't care. It's a mess. It's convoluted. None of it really makes any kind of sense in the least. I mean, a lot of people pretend it makes sense... but no... it doesn't. They're just looking for connections that don't exist. The obvious links are just the obvious ones. Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 are connected... Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are connected... Link to the Past and Link's Awakening are connected... the Oracles games are connected to each other... Windwaker and Spirit Tracks are connected...

    Everything else? Yeah, it's basically a stand-alone game. A reimagining of the "Legend of Zelda". Which, in its own way, makes a lot more sense. The games are literally "The Legend of Zelda". A Legend. Passed down through the ages. Through the cultures. The same themes keep reappearing, but the details change. Sometimes, to fit the new local religion (the three goddesses)… sometimes to fit the strange land the Legend finds itself in (Vaati and the Minish Cap). But, it's a Legend. A story. Passed down from person to person. Maybe through word of mouth. Maybe through old scribbled texts that are difficult to translate.

    The Timeline and Overall story of The Legend of Zelda makes a lot more sense if you stop trying to connect them, and just think of them as the same story being told in different lands, with different influences, and different time periods. The same story of a little elf boy saving a Princess with his sword, that slays the evil of the land. It's a Legend. Was it ever real? Maybe. Once. Is it real now? Who knows? The Legend keeps it alive.

    "The Legend of Zelda" is far more interesting when you take its title seriously instead of trying to slap everything into a "timeline". It's a Legend. A story of a hero who vanquishes evil and saves royalty. Told forever throughout history. Told in all the lands. Details changed to suit where it's being told. To inspire those who live there. To make it relatable.

    That's The Legend of Zelda.
     
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  17. BlueFlamePrince

    BlueFlamePrince Veteran Veteran

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    @Tai_MT That is a lot to take in but i understand you need good equipment to have a fun experience. I will also admit I'm a hardcore fan.
    I love the overall story but a small part of that is because I love fantasy and time traveling stories. I know when its about time traveling there
    will be an alternate world too. Yet when it comes to Zelda i also enjoy the gameplay, characters, and locations. However I want to add some extra information.

    Four Sword and Four Sword Adventure, ( FS - GBA and FSA - GC ) FS was a mini-ish game to test how mutiplayer would be for Zelda. FSA was about the same but added a solo player. This idea would come back in Link between worlds for shadow battle and Tri Force Heroes (both 3DS ). When it comes to gameplay for each of these FS, FSA, TFH is basic. While LBW holds more of a challenge while bringing back a older world. While the challenge for the others is communicating with friends while playing and messing around.

    So Moving on, The timeline is like you said a legend. Some fans who follow the overall story can tell you the timeline is really of Link's bloodline or family history. Yet on the other hand its the history of hyrule and the mystery that surrounds it. That is why fans want to make that connection between games. Also there is a saying about stories, movies, shows, ect. When the story ends for you that doesn't mean it ends for the characters. The character keeps going even after the story is over and only the creator can say where it goes next.

    I'm going to stop for now but i hope this makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
    #57
  18. BlueFlamePrince

    BlueFlamePrince Veteran Veteran

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    Hey everyone I wanted to mention that i'm working on another Zelda project / videos and need your help.
    Do you have any questions about BOTW's lore or theories about the game? I have more info on my profile but
    I have a theory that some of you may know of and I want to hear your opinions on it.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Is the Great Plateau Skyloft?
    Now to start off keep in mind from game to game scaling is different and some areas such as Skyloft is more of a hub.
    As for the Great Plateau from Zelda BOTW its just one part of the world map and has more of a impact on the places around it.
    Now the old man at the beginning of BOTW explains this is the birth place of Hyrule and most people may think of Skyloft
    from Skyward Sword. Yet Hyrule was already around before Skyword Sword started. However it was known as the surface in
    Skyward Sword.

    This is where it becomes more of an opinion and more confusing as I go.
    1. The Great plateau looks like it had 2 ways to enter and leave besides climbing / flying.
    2. The Great Plateau's Temple of Time is not the one from OOT / TP
    3. It's unclear if The Great Plateau was a sky island.
    4. If it is Skyloft it lost the goddess statue and the knights academy and gained a town and abbey.

    I know i may have missed a few things but i'm going to stop here before it becomes more confusing. I know its a lot of questions
    but I enjoy piecing history / lore together. I'm also answering all of this in my project but wanted to know what others thought about it.
     
    #58
  19. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    I think the most plausible theory I saw for Great Plateau was that it was originally in the place where the "Lost Woods" was. That they somehow swapped positions. To me, it makes sense because the Master Sword was always housed in the "Temple of Time", but it is now in the Lost Woods? Outside the Temple of Time? On top of which, the geography for both locations makes very little sense... but if you swap them on the map... the geography makes a lot more sense. The Plateau in the middle of a lake where the waterfall drains... The forest no longer sitting on some weird isolated island (not that this doesn't happen in real life... but the forest would've long expanded beyond the borders of the ring of water just from the natural way trees grow and drop their seeds). And, with the Sheikah technology in the game, capable of fairly amazing things... I can see how it might've been swapped. Maybe even why.
     
    #59
  20. BlueFlamePrince

    BlueFlamePrince Veteran Veteran

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    When it comes to Zelda's geography it doesn't make sense to most people and they complain or ignore it.
    However in a few games it explains why the land changes so much. So this means you must play those games
    and remember that little detail which isn't needed to beat the games.

    So here are my notes that I've been working with. I would go into more detail but things may become more confusing.
    1. Hyrule and the dark world contains twins for each location. This is explained by Sahasarala in the swamp palace. ( LTTP )
    Note: The dark world was once the sacred realm.
    2.
    There are three dragons that protects the land. Fi explains (Skyward Sword) What Fi doesn't say is each dragon
    controls water, fire, and lightning. Faron woods was once flooded to cleans it from evil.
    Note. what happens when a elemental dragon moves somewhere new?
    3. When Great Fairies loses their power the land around them starts to decay. ( BOTW )
    4. Guardian on the land ( Great Deku tree, Jabu Jabu, Light spirit, ect ) Zoras follow Valoo the dragon we now have a Rito.
    Kokiri
    leaves the forest we now have a Korok. ( OOT, TP, WW )
    Note: Keapora Gaepora could have been the first Rito. ( OOT ) Follow no one and you get a Occoo ( TP )

    May not sound like geography but this is how the land changes from game to game.
    Unless you use the Triforce which does happen in a game.
     
    #60

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