Looking for feedback on battle system idea...

[NinjaKittyProductions]

Hey all,
First time asking a question. I was brainstorming on what I want from my battle system and I have come up with the following. I am going to have skills apply states, of which some of the states do not really do anything except setup for other states.

Example: the skill Waterball will deal damage and apply the Soaked condition on the enemy. Now if I use an electricity attack next turn, let's say Lightning Bolt, it will instead deal double damage because of the Soaked condition (removing the Soaked condition in the process) but now also applying the Electrified (stun) condition. Without the Soaked condition, Lightning Bolt would deal damage as normal. If say a fire spell, Fireball, were used on a Soaked enemy, it would remove Soaked and apply the Scalded condition.

So I guess what I am asking is that does this kind of battle strategy, of applying and exploiting states, have any appeal or sound to convoluted?

Also, what kind of combos do you think would work well with this kind of system?
So far for the condition Soaked I have:
Soaked + Lightning attack = Electrified (double damage from lighting attack + Stun)
Soaked + Fire Attack = Scalded (-Agi and damage every turn)
Soaked + Ice Attack = Frozen (Paralyzed)
Soaked + Air Attack = Removes Soaked
Soaked + Acid Attack = Poisoned
All of this as just an example of what it would look like.

I am open to any and all criticism and welcome all recommendations.

 

[Milennin]

I think it could work, as long as skill descriptions are useful in describing additional conditional effects, otherwise I could see players getting confused about statuses popping up on enemies and not knowing what it does or how it got there. And also to help players make informed decisions from the go, instead of expecting them to experiment blindly and hope they will remember (especially if after they took a break from the game).

 

[Grunwave]

The more complex a combat system: the better.

A lot of us dont have the math skills to balance it properly, so I think we, as a community install simpler systems.

I think you have a good basis. If it inspires you and you think you or a helper can balance it, then I would be a fan.

 

[NinjaKittyProductions]

@Milennin Yea, I planned on putting in a tutorial through lore books and npcs as well as a journal (fits into the story). I am not sure how to fit it all in a skill description however, since there can and probably will be many combinations.

@Grunwave I am worried about just how complex it can get so it will take lots of trial and error. I hope I can deliver ^_^.

 

[OnslaughtSupply]

Shouldn't if the enemy is "soaked" not be able to burn if they're all wet?

I like the system if it's clear enough. Which will have to be introduced gradually as to not have information overload but enough to avoid a situation like I mentioned above.

 

[TheoAllen]

The more complex a combat system: the better.

Are you sure? it's not always better. But if you say more interesting, yes. Better? we need an evaluation, and better is subjective anyway.

--------------------------------
I get what the thing you're trying to do. You really have fun with the possibility of what the actor could do. But have you think of what the enemies can do? Does the same rule apply to actor? Recently I tried to experiment a similar thing but from enemy that apply a state to actor instead. These kind of apply states and follow up effect is good for boss battle. There are three enemies. The big one, and the lesser two. The big one command other two, like applying "targeted" state so all the rest would have focused attack. But this is my game.

But back to the enemy. Does all those combo apply to all enemies? Do they have counter for it? Or some that maybe resist? Maybe not the same combo will work together with another type of enemy. Because only actor that has access to some fun mechanic is not fun at all.

Anyway, here some ideas
> Electrify + Shock = Spark (Extra damage to one with electrified, shock jumped to others and it becomes AoE)
> Electrify + Fire = Disintegrate (Massive hit to defense)
> Electrify + Water = Short circuit (Can be stun, reduce stats to mechanical units if you have one)
> Ignited + Water = Smoked (Reduce hit rate, works the same as blind)
> Ignited + Fire = Explosion
> Ignited + Wind = Apply burnt for DoT damage
> Ignited + Acid = Poison Gas (Spread DoT damage to others)

 

[AmazingKazuki]

While I don't necessarily agree with the more complex a battle system the better, I think that you have a nice, more unique combo system in place. You should look at all of the elements you have in your game, have a good number you want to go at it with. Next, see what you can get by combining them. See if you can make each one unique. Because for your example... Soaked, right? What difference does it do using Lightning Bolt versus a fire move. Is it more damage? Does the stun out weigh what the scald (possible burn?) might give me? Otherwise, I will always just go with stun if the stun mechanic in your game is better than the possible missing effect of scald or whatever the other combo is.

 

[NinjaKittyProductions]

As stated before, this is just a bit of brainstorming so all the aspects are not quite there yet. I do love that people are interested in this kind of battle system though. Thank you for the all the replies so far.

But have you think of what the enemies can do? Does the same rule apply to actor? Does all those combo apply to all enemies? Do they have counter for it? Or some that maybe resist? Maybe not the same combo will work together with another type of enemy. Because only actor that has access to some fun mechanic is not fun at all.

@TheoAllen Yes I was going to give the enemies the same ability/abilities to affect the heroes with the same. I have thought of some enemies being more resistant to certain elements and by comparison some of the related states. Even have some enemies that would be completely immune to certain states. As you stated about a Ignited state, I could have a fire elemental be immune to Ignited... as it would make sense.

Anyway, here some ideas
> Electrify + Shock = Spark (Extra damage to one with electrified, shock jumped to others and it becomes AoE)
> Electrify + Fire = Disintegrate (Massive hit to defense)
> Electrify + Water = Short circuit (Can be stun, reduce stats to mechanical units if you have one)
> Ignited + Water = Smoked (Reduce hit rate, works the same as blind)
> Ignited + Fire = Explosion
> Ignited + Wind = Apply burnt for DoT damage
> Ignited + Acid = Poison Gas (Spread DoT damage to others)

And I love your examples and will probably use them ^_^. Credited of course.

@AmazingKazuki I have yet to decide on the number of elements that will be present in my database. I know there are some out there that are tired of the normal element trope of fire, wind, water, earth, lightning, etc. but honestly I have a difficult time coming up with other elements without building an entire world around said elements. The system is still in the brainstorming department so I have yet to have all possible combinations figured out or even what the resulting states might even do.

 

[Milennin]

@Milennin Yea, I planned on putting in a tutorial through lore books and npcs as well as a journal (fits into the story). I am not sure how to fit it all in a skill description however, since there can and probably will be many combinations.

That's the kind of tutorial I, as player, skim through and forget about after 20 minutes - because it's boring. You gotta teach through gameplay, and if you can't provide sufficient information in your skill texts, you're gonna have to find another way the player is going to remember it. The worst kind of battle systems are those when you can't make informed decisions, because nothing is clear and are expected to just remember text tutorials.

 

[Vox Novus]

Seems fine in theory to me. I'd consider thinking of not going too crazy with how many status/element combinations there are though. There's another reason I say that though and it goes along with what Milennin started to get into, I think this type of system is best done by teaching through gameplay. Personally I like complex systems myself in rpgs (but they are not always better, sometimes a clean well made simpler system works far better for some games).

One thing I've learned through my own games, is that no matter how obvious it might seem to you as the developer, what you are trying to articulate sometimes just doesn't come through in text tutorials to players; not necessarily because they are "incapable of understanding it," just that they are already being bombarded by a lot of information even in just the game which is a new experience for them and they still are taking things in often times. A lot of people are just sort of hands on learners as well, I'd recommend this type of system to be introduced gradually. Maybe the first dungeon focuses just on getting the player to get used to soak, then the next dungeon is the next State and so on and so forth. It will let players get hands-on experience with each State and teach them what they need to know for the ending stages of the game where you incorporate all states.

 

[jonthefox]

I'd echo what others have said. I really like when elemental spells yield states with unique properties, and interact with other elemental states. But be careful of having too many things for the player to remember - try to make it as simple and intuitive as possible, so the player feels like "ohh, cool! let me think about the possibilities..." as opposed to "wait, what just happened?" I think when you come up with your other elemental states and interactions, it would be easier to assess, and of course having other people play test a sample battle would be the best way to get meaningful feedback on it.

 

[cactusanctuary]

I've designed a similar system for my games I've kept it much simpler, though -- if a target can become Soaked (yeah, I had called it the same ), then they become weak to Lightning spells but also resistant to Fire spells.

I think your system might get too complicated and difficult to communicate in the skill description. What would be helpful, is during a battle, after you select a spell and are selecting an enemy with a state, would be to show in some UI that the enemy will have X effect due to of the combination of the state + spell.

 

[atoms]

You'd have to be careful with this, but it could work!

In my opinion, you'd need to make a way for the player to remember what each combination does easily, like a text box that lists all the possiblies perhaps. If you want the player to have to guess what each combination does the first time, I wouldn't recomend it but I suppose it COULD work but again after that first go I'd have an easy way to see what the combination's you've discovered do.

If I was doing this system I'd probably include the default element as a combination as well, i.e. Thunder + Thunder.

 

[NinjaKittyProductions]

Thanks so much for all of the replies so far! I have been working on this system now almost non-stop. By using a plugin, yanfly's <_<, I have more real-estate for descriptions of skills and items, so that really helped. I probably will not do something akin to 7-8 different elements affecting a single state but more along the lines of 2-4 elements.

 

[_Leviathan]

An absolutely lovely system. Instead of having enemies be very weak to water and using just more and more powerful water skills, you can drop the need to have more powerful abilites over time and instead, if you wish to deal more damage, you must use a combination of abilities! It is much more interesting than simply having Fire, Fira and Firaga.

You may as well want to include defensive options instead of only damaging ones. I would have an ignited battler gain benefits if water was splashed over him, such as removing ignition and perhaps healing him? That is up to you, though.

You may want to take a look at the Divinity game franchise, especially Divinity: Original Sin 2. It makes use of similar concepts. Might give you some ideas to expand your own with.

 

[Adonael]

This system is pretty unique in my eyes and something that isn't used very often. I like the concept and idea as a whole. If you build your whole system off of different combinations I could see it getting a bit convoluted and a pain to balance, but if you are concise and explain it adequately to the player I could see it being quite a good system.

I wish you luck on this. I would like to see how this system plays out.

 

[Fernyfer775]

If you could balance this to make it work, then I think it would be a pretty sweet battle system! Best of luck to you!

 

[Danielcross]

Seems interesting, I'll keep any eye on this thread to see how it develops

 

[Kes]

'Game Mechancis Design' is not for giving feedback on individual, specific projects. This really belongs in 'Ideas and Prototypes'. As it is a moderated section I am unable to move this thread and so will have to close it. If you need further feedback, please post a thread there, taking into account anything you will be adapting in the light of responses here.

[mod]Closing[/mod]