RMMZ looking to use VERY high resolution textures in a game

WyattTheSkid

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gonna keep this short and sweet. Planning on developing a game with rpgmaker mz using the MZ3D plugin to render it in 3d. The fact that it will be 3d means that texture quality will madder significantly. SO, I have decided to start a tileset where each tile is 480x480 pixels (they're photo based) and would like to know if there are nay plugins or workarounds for making rpgmaker accept my 480x480 instead of keeping me locked to the very pixel art oriented 48x48 tiles. I'm new here so I apologize for my ignorance if the answer is way more simple than I'm thinking. A sample of the tiles can be provided over pm I dont feel comfortable making them public though. Any help is appreciated greatly thank you very much everyone!!!


EDIT: as well as change the resolution so said 480x480 tiles can take up one proper space.


Another EDIT: This is why I wanted high resolution texture support in my game. They look great :)
I downscaled to 128x for this example but I'm gonna push it a little more and see what I can get away with. Overall, looking great though. I used Fomar0153's "Change Tile Size" plugin and the camera with MZ3D can be adjusted to anything so massive tile sizes in a 2D space are not an issue in my case. Here's what I got going so far I think it looks great. If anyone stumbles on this thread and needs help pulling off something similar feel free to message me on here or on discord. My discord tag is Wyatt#5998. And lastly I'd like to thank everyone for their responses as they aided in me coming to a reasonable conclusion. Again I would like to preface the fact that this is just proof of concept, these screenshots are in no way a definition of the limitations whatsoever this was just my first attempt.

In conclusion, RPGMAKER kicks ass and there's no need to let the initial pixely top down appearance fool you. There's a lot you can do with it.

Okay so 480x480 worked perfectly fine immediately and looks amazing.. The first two are 128x128 and the last 4 images are 480x480. So far I am far from disappointed
 

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Shaz

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480x480 is very big - what do you intend your window size to be? Such large tiles will also take a huge amount of memory and a long time to load. So your game would only be playable on a massively powerful computer with a giant monitor.
 

WyattTheSkid

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480x480 is very big - what do you intend your window size to be? Such large tiles will also take a huge amount of memory and a long time to load. So your game would only be playable on a massively powerful computer with a giant monitor.
I plan on making the internal resolution 1920x1080. Load times are not a worry to me, People play gta online don't they?
 

MoonBunny

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I plan on making the internal resolution 1920x1080. Load times are not a worry to me, People play gta online don't they?
The same people who play GTA Online aren't likely to be looking for a demanding game made in... RPG Maker. I don't see what that has to do with your really strange decision though, because if you want textures of that size running at 1080p+, you may be better off using proper 3D engines instead.
 

gRaViJa

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I'm using MV3D and while I love it, it is stressing on the system, I have it under control but you gotta think about load, lagg etc. every step of the way. Unless MZ3D is 10x + faster, I don't think it will run smoothly.
 

Shaz

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I plan on making the internal resolution 1920x1080.

A default project in MZ uses 48x48 tiles, with a window size of 17x13 tiles - that's 816x624.

If your resolution is going to be 1920x1080 and your tiles are 480x480, that means you're going to have 4x2.25 tiles visible at any time. Apart from the fact that fractional tiles can cause jittering, your player won't actually be able to see anything of the map.

Now I'm not saying you have to rethink it, but it might be wise to rethink it.
 

WyattTheSkid

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The same people who play GTA Online aren't likely to be looking for a demanding game made in... RPG Maker. I don't see what that has to do with your really strange decision though, because if you want textures of that size running at 1080p+, you may be better off using proper 3D engines instead.
I loe the way rpgmaker works I just really want to be able to have high ammounts of detail.
 

MoonBunny

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I loe the way rpgmaker works I just really want to be able to have high ammounts of detail.
The engine is not designed for the amount of detail you want to give it. Others have already mentioned the amount of lag you could cause along with the absurdly large tiles making the map quite impossible to really see.
If you want to continue using RPG Maker, keep your project realistic for what it is capable of. 1080p resolution is still in the realm of reasonable, but 480x480 tiles are not. There's a good reason why the tiles are limited to 48x48, and why you can't go very far beyond that.
 

Shaz

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I know some people have gone up to 96x96 but I'm not aware of anything higher.
 

WyattTheSkid

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how can that be achieved? I'm comfortable with sticking to around 128x at least or maybe even 96x depending on how it looks but my main question is how can this be accomplished?
I know some people have gone up to 96x96 but I'm not aware of anything higher.
 

Shaz

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There is at least one MZ plugin that allows you to change the tile size.
 

WyattTheSkid

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There is at least one MZ plugin that allows you to change the tile size.
Alright I'll look around and if you're interested I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the continued responses I appreciate it.
 

ramza

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The main problem you're going to run into is that increasing the tile size is not actually increasing the resolution of the rendering. MZ3D is just transforming the tile into a 3d object. If you double the size of the tile from 48x48 to 96x96, it's not going to make the wall object more detailed, it's going to make it double the physical size. You'd need to also downscale it to render the 96x96 pixel tile in a smaller area, something which the plugin doesn't do.

While what the above posters are suggesting about map size isn't entirely correct, since the map rendering is different, it's still a real issue here.
 

WyattTheSkid

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I'm using MV3D and while I love it, it is stressing on the system, I have it under control but you gotta think about load, lagg etc. every step of the way. Unless MZ3D is 10x + faster, I don't think it will run smoothly.
I managed to get what my initial intensions were to work in a tech demo environment. I have a relatively mid range pc and a 144 hz monitor (i7 7700, GTX 1060 3GB and 16GB of DDR4 Ram) and I haven't dipped below 142 fps. This solution appears to be promising but I'm taking caution and paying attention to performance. If The system requirements to get at least 60fps are around mid range gaming pc, I'm perfectly content with that I'm not trying to push my game to mobile or anything like that
 

gRaViJa

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@WyattTheSkid Sounds promising! If i wasn't soo deep in development on MV, I would switch to MZ in a heartbeat for that. Still thinking or trying the trick to play MV game in MZ.
 

WyattTheSkid

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@WyattTheSkid Sounds promising! If i wasn't soo deep in development on MV, I would switch to MZ in a heartbeat for that. Still thinking or trying the trick to play MV game in MZ.
depending on what plugins your using, Some MV projects can be opened in MZ straight away without any tinkering. Maybe give it a try/
 

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If you want photorealistic maps, take the photos and make a collage in your image editor, then set the result as your map without using any tiles (set it as a parallax image with zero motion).

Then you can just place events on the map as it it had tileset images there.

No need to ever use any tiles from tilesets for anything other than events if you choose to go that route.


EDIT: OOPS! Missed the fact that it's for the 3D Plugin.

Nevermind...
 

WyattTheSkid

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If you want photorealistic maps, take the photos and make a collage in your image editor, then set the result as your map without using any tiles (set it as a parallax image with zero motion).

Then you can just place events on the map as it it had tileset images there.

No need to ever use any tiles from tilesets for anything other than events if you choose to go that route.


EDIT: OOPS! Missed the fact that it's for the 3D Plugin.

Nevermind...
It's okay, I figured it out and any input is appreciated!
 

Raizen

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Okay first of all, there are a LOT of wrong information in this thread, I saw people talking about memory RAM bottlenecking, about needing a high-end PC, about being demanding for a RPG Maker Game, so I'll try to make a clear answer to what you want and what you will get.


first, RAM, 480x480 tile will not make your memory go boom, tilemaps on those libs Babylon/PIXI should be efficient enough to reuse the memory allocation, and if there are any memory problems with it, it is fixable at some point. Do remember a LOT of people on RPG Maker uses parallax maps, and even more, the way RPG Maker manages the image cache means those images aren't even unloaded from the memory, so yeah, maybe that 100 parallax map game, they might all be on the memory (shouldn't be), but just giving an example of games on RPG Maker that uses more RAM than you are intending to. I can't realistic see your maps needing more than some 100's MBs.

now to the artistic part, I don't really approve the way you want to go, trying to be so detailed on a 3D library wouldn't be better just, you know, use models instead? This can indeed cause performance issues because of how Babylon.js and RPG Maker works with their map scene, it is extremely demanding. For this to work smooth, there will be a need for a coder to fix all bottlenecks that RPG Maker brings to the Scene_Map and also use babylon.js more efficiently, this seems a big problem, think about this.

RPG Maker has a Scene_Map that is made to be adaptable to the editor and not efficient, and now you need an efficient system to handle your bigger gpu/cpu usage, but you are still using the rpg maker event-user-friendly code Ojima which is highly unperformatic plus having a secondary renderer in the form of Babylon.js to the mix, the efficiency goes out the window.

So yeah, I would test A LOT, and I saw you did some, before actually working on this, I would suggest trying with some lower-end systems to see how it goes also, more on the gpu part, since I'm not that familiar with the MV3D plugin, I'm not sure how performatic it is, specially with sprites as big as you want to use it with.
 

WyattTheSkid

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Okay first of all, there are a LOT of wrong information in this thread, I saw people talking about memory RAM bottlenecking, about needing a high-end PC, about being demanding for a RPG Maker Game, so I'll try to make a clear answer to what you want and what you will get.


first, RAM, 480x480 tile will not make your memory go boom, tilemaps on those libs Babylon/PIXI should be efficient enough to reuse the memory allocation, and if there are any memory problems with it, it is fixable at some point. Do remember a LOT of people on RPG Maker uses parallax maps, and even more, the way RPG Maker manages the image cache means those images aren't even unloaded from the memory, so yeah, maybe that 100 parallax map game, they might all be on the memory (shouldn't be), but just giving an example of games on RPG Maker that uses more RAM than you are intending to. I can't realistic see your maps needing more than some 100's MBs.

now to the artistic part, I don't really approve the way you want to go, trying to be so detailed on a 3D library wouldn't be better just, you know, use models instead? This can indeed cause performance issues because of how Babylon.js and RPG Maker works with their map scene, it is extremely demanding. For this to work smooth, there will be a need for a coder to fix all bottlenecks that RPG Maker brings to the Scene_Map and also use babylon.js more efficiently, this seems a big problem, think about this.

RPG Maker has a Scene_Map that is made to be adaptable to the editor and not efficient, and now you need an efficient system to handle your bigger gpu/cpu usage, but you are still using the rpg maker event-user-friendly code Ojima which is highly unperformatic plus having a secondary renderer in the form of Babylon.js to the mix, the efficiency goes out the window.

So yeah, I would test A LOT, and I saw you did some, before actually working on this, I would suggest trying with some lower-end systems to see how it goes also, more on the gpu part, since I'm not that familiar with the MV3D plugin, I'm not sure how performatic it is, specially with sprites as big as you want to use it with.
This was the response I wanted all along thank you. I will keep updating this thread when I encounter issues or make breakthroughs. Take care.
 

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