Loot Systems - Random/Planned/Hybrid?

[Yusha]

When playing through traditional JRPGs like the 'Final Fantasy' series or the 'Tales of' games, loot is distributed a few different ways:

• No clear tiers of items

• No level restrictions

• Monsters - Random item pools

• Treasure Chests - Specific items

• Shops - Specific Items or 'hidden tiers' per region/town

• Bosses - Random loot pools and/or specific drops

On the other hand RPGs like Diablo or World of Warcraft handle their equipment a little differently:

• Clear tiers of items (different colored names/levels like epic or legendary)

• Level restrictions

• Monsters drops - Random loot pools

• Treasure Chests - Random loot

• Shops - Random loot tiers (based on region/town)

• Bosses - Random loot pool

What are your favorite types of systems? What would a hybrid system look like?

I'm currently developing a hybrid system for my JRPG:

Level restrictions for MOST gear

• T1 Common (white) LVL1-50
• T2 Magic (green) LVL 5-50
• T3 Rare (blue) LVL 15-50
• T4 Epic (purple) LVL 25-50
• T5 Legendary (orange) LVL 30-50
• T2-T5 Crafted (brown) LVL 5-50
• T5.5/6 Artifact (gold) LVL 50

Each tier progressively receives better stats, multiple stats, skills, bonuses, etc.

Random Common, Magic and Rare items have a chance to have a prefix and/or a suffix added to the base item name which gives it extra base stats.
Examples: Fiery Warbow of the Ogre, Frozen Stiletto of Wizardry, Reinforced Battleplate of Courage

Epic and Legendary items have all preset names, stats, skills and bonuses that have a random variance (+/- X)
Example: The Bloodletter, Lightningdust, Ancient Dragonbone Rod

Crafted items are made by finding the synthesis recipe and combining a base Common item, gem(s), rune(s), or other reagents.
Example: Doom Touch, Shadow Mantle, Silent Fortune

Artifact Weapons are essentially one-of-a-kind 'ultimate weapons' that are acquired through a class/character specific quest chain
Example: Nihilim, Phantasmagoria, Kusanagi

• Normal Monster Drops - Random Common or Magic item based on region & item level (low chance/small pool)

• Rare Spawn Monster Drops - Random Rare, Epic or Legendary item based on region & item level (high chance/medium pool)

• Town Shops - Levels of Common gear per region based on item level

• Chests - Crafting items, potions, augments, 100% random Magic, Rare, Epic or Legendary based on item level & region (having a Rare chest somewhere and an Epic chest somewhere else or a Legendary chest at the end of a dungeon)

• Bosses - Random Epic & Legendary Pool based on item level (medium chance, medium pool)

• Crafting - Unwanted gear can be dismantled to craft something specific

• Side Quests - Story specific Magic, Rare, Epic & Legendary equipment

• Artifact - Ultimate Weapons (one per class build)

• Traveling Merchants - Random reagents, potions, augments, one-time buy Magic, Rare, & Epic equipment (low chance/based on level and region)

Is this coherent? How would you create a working hybrid system?

I'm mainly attempting to create unique play-throughs, highly emphasize gear customization and synthesis, create a layer of gear depth and sense of progression based on visually-pleasing upgrades, and reward player exploration with sweet loot.

The game features 8 main characters and 4 secret characters (all separate classes).
4 Characters in the party at one time.
Armor is divided into Light, Medium and Heavy (Mage uses Light, etc.)
Each character can equip their class weapon.
Some weapons are cross-class (Swords/Staves)

(P.S. Common gear would be bought at the shops if the player has found nothing better through exploring up until that point. All gear found in the field/dungeon will be slightly to exponentially better than the gear found in the next town. Common gear is also the base item used in crafting recipes. Crafted gear would have the bonuses of a Rare, Epic or Legendary item of the same level.)

 

[AmazingKazuki]

First off, your game definitely sounds item-driven. Personally, I can go for either style. I guess it depends for me on whether the game has a clear way of getting certain, higher leveled or higher stat items. It can be fun to go out and grind the ingredients for a nice build of items and give you something extra to do then just fly through the game. Having color coded tiers sound good to show you're getting stronger or have more excitement because you visually see representation of the better gear.

I keep reading over your second grouping. I've never done such a big item-driven game yet (which I want too) but I like the ideas of having a chance to obtain high loot from regular chests or finding secrets to unlock bigger chests. I remember Dark Cloud had special chests for weapons and I knew I wanted those! I had to evade monsters and get those first and foremost. Bosses having the small pool of epic and legendary is a yes. Especially if you make the bosses grindable, maybe added to the whole thing and having the player use more effort to get those nice items.

I really, really like the path you're on. You definitely have ideas that I would imagine being in a hybrid system.

 

[Basileus]

Well the obvious question is: Why make a "hybrid" system in the first place?

When designing any system in any game you need to consider to target audience and the intended feeling and gameplay you are going for. If most of your game is designed for one group but the entire equipment system is designed for a different one, then you have a problem and many players may dislike that system even if it is well-designed technically. And for that you can't just look at WHAT other games did; you need to look at WHY they did so.

A game like Final Fantasy is supposed to feel like a grand adventure. Players want to have strong, cool gear but tend to prefer gear that makes sense thematically. Treasure chests have set items because it makes some amount of sense for those items to be in that particular place, especially for unique gear. Having different gear placed in each town also lets each town feel more unique; the town with the bustling mythril mine has the mythril gear, the elf village has enchanted wooden gear, etc. Having strictly delineated tiers for all equipment just breaks immersion in the setting. The player isn't supposed to be too aware of the "game-y" elements. The "tiers" are hidden so the player can enjoy the game and the setting more. Instead of having "Red tier" equipment get replaced with "Blue tier" gear, the player goes from cheap "Iron" weapons sold in the poor starting town and gets better "Mythril" weapons when they get to the richer trading hub city. This allows for decent world-building while also giving the player compelling upgrades without beating them over the head with the "game-y" stuff.

Games like Diablo and many roguelikes are more like loot simulators. Players want to have the best, rarest gear and having progressively higher tiers of gear gives a strong incentive to keep playing. This works especially well in multiplayer games where players see other players with even better gear and will keep playing to acquire that better gear - this is why super rare drops are shown off like a badge of honor in these types of games. This also means that it is more important to communicate a weapon's tier and relative power level so the player has an idea how high or low they are on the totem pole. This also puts a stronger emphasis on random loot so players get a rush for skipping equipment tiers. This means that "randomness" and "clear power levels" are core to the game design since the core feeling the games are often built on is the tension generated by the random loot tables.

So to determine what you should do in your own project, here's a few question you should be able to answer:

• What is the main focus on my game (quests, story, combat, puzzles, etc.)?
• What should the players be feeling when they play this game?
• Will my target player-base want hand-placed treasures or randomly-generated loot?
• Is it more important for players to find gear, buy gear, or craft gear?
• Does it make sense for the player to find gear before they are able to use it?

It's most important for your equipment system to make sense within the game as a whole, so you really need to nail down the details of the other systems in your game to figure out what the best approach is.

 

[Yusha]

I've never done such a big item-driven game yet (which I want too) but I like the ideas of having a chance to obtain high loot from regular chests or finding secrets to unlock bigger chests. I remember Dark Cloud had special chests for weapons and I knew I wanted those! I had to evade monsters and get those first and foremost. Bosses having the small pool of epic and legendary is a yes. Especially if you make the bosses grindable, maybe added to the whole thing and having the player use more effort to get those nice items.

I really, really like the path you're on. You definitely have ideas that I would imagine being in a hybrid system.

I was thinking about implementing a "Battle Amphitheater" where the player continues to unlock the bosses they've defeated in the story mode for an extra chance to grind them in repeatable battles, maybe even a stronger version of them?

• What is the main focus on my game (quests, story, combat, puzzles, etc.)?
• What should the players be feeling when they play this game?
• Will my target player-base want hand-placed treasures or randomly-generated loot?
• Is it more important for players to find gear, buy gear, or craft gear?
• Does it make sense for the player to find gear before they are able to use it?

These are great questions that I will have to think about. I am mainly attempting to fuse the best qualities of my favorite console JRPGs with the crazy loot, skill combinations and dungeon crawling of the more roguelike games. (Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, Diablo).

I was thinking of the uniqueness of the gear and I thought that the Common gear in towns could represent the environment around it as well as having side quests that reward specific gear based on the quest like "Rowan's Blade of Balance" or "Lighthouse Moon Staff" which would either be Magic, Rare, Epic & Legendary or another loot tier like Quest loot (yellow?)

The crafting recipes would also be unique equipment like "Blackguard's Battleaxe" that was found in an old abandoned military barracks or something.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Milennin]

I prefer the more randomised loot, as long as it's not possible to get RNG screwed or if it turns into a grind. Like, a chest that can offer 4 different weapons that are more or less equal in strength, but have different effects, or are class specific. It adds a bit to the replay value, so the second time you play through the game you might find completely different items and change your playstyle accordingly to the new effects of your gear.

 

[Yusha]

It adds a bit to the replay value, so the second time you play through the game you might find completely different items and change your playstyle accordingly to the new effects of your gear.

I agree. This is an aspect I was going for. Hopefully it would cause the player to try new characters because now they've found a sweet piece of gear for someone that they haven't really used but they want to see the new skill it gives the character.