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macclunkey

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So , i had a epiphany a during quarentine and thought about creating this RPG/Fighting/School Simulator game where you play as a student in this futuristic school/city and you can switch characters and play as every other student living in the city.
I've already thought about all the small details that would make this possible and entertaining to the player. I also realize i would have to create thousands of maps just to organize the whole thing , i know it sounds crazy. But i need to ask you guys who have more experience with it : "How crazy this actually is ?" and also "How many people i would need to accelerate the process on the making of this , so it wouldn't take ages to be developed ?"
 

Milennin

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As player, I'd be wondering how it would affect the experience. Like, what's the point in having hundreds of characters to play as if they all the play all the same, or fall under generic classes so they all end up with the same or similar skill sets. And whether there's a point in it if none of them have unique, fleshed out stories and backgrounds, like a game with a focused group of characters would have.
What kind of advantage would having this many playable characters have, apart from just being a gimmick?
 

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That's very ambitious, and there's a lot of things to consider.
For example, if you can switch at any point, you need to make sure that the player knows where to go next, and that the character's story arc isn't confusing because you picked up at a point that isn't the start. Now if you want to make the story non-linear, you're in for a lot of work.
 

macclunkey

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As player, I'd be wondering how it would affect the experience. Like, what's the point in having hundreds of characters to play as if they all the play all the same, or fall under generic classes so they all end up with the same or similar skill sets. And whether there's a point in it if none of them have unique, fleshed out stories and backgrounds, like a game with a focused group of characters would have.
What kind of advantage would having this many playable characters have, apart from just being a gimmick?
Well , i have a stablished a story and a system that would certainly keep the player engaged , but i thought it wouldn't be necessary to talk about it here. I would have to create another thread just to address it , that's just too much reading for a project that doesn't even has a demo or at least a few images to use as an example.
But , just to give a little glimpse of it , imagine you having a thousand characters with their own backstorys and character arcs at your disposal , but only a few of them will actually make you beat the game and you have live these character's lives for a short period of time and learn everything about them so you can know wich ones are the "chosen ones". It's somenthing like a "prophecy system" that has this single event that can only be unlocked by a certain number of characters under certain circumstances. Some of them just have to be at the right place at the right time , others have to go through a whole arc and change completly and others have to be dead to unlock it. And there's also a time limit hahaha
 

Milennin

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imagine you having a thousand characters with their own backstorys and character arcs at your disposal
I don't see this happening. Not even the biggest game studios with hundreds of people working fulltime on a game for years on end are able to pull this off. Not even if scaled back into "mere" hundreds of unique NPC's, it doesn't happen.
I guess we all dream of making some huge game that would rival the all-time classics made by professional studios, but realistically speaking, that's simply impossible. Most normal, small-sized projects made in RPG Maker don't even get finished, and those that do usually have taken years to get there. Still, if you feel like it's something you want to do, then you should go for it; no matter how unrealistic it may seem.
But if your goal is to finish a game, it's good to know the limits. And nobody is going to write multiple thousand NPC backstories and make unique, fitting skill sets that are all playable all on their own. I won't believe it until I see it.
 

PixeLockeT

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Depends. How much experience do you have in game development? There are a few games known for their massive rosters, but it will take lots of manpower and also lots of experience under ones belt to organize and design it all. Is it crazy? A bit, if you're not experienced and have a very dedicated team. Is it impossible? No. I don't think it sounds like a particularly good idea myself, though, if I'm honest. I also rarely liked any of the other games where its selling point was big rosters. I prefer quality of characters > quantity of characters and usually if you're focused on numbers you won't so much be on depth, as is proven by all those other games. Good luck.^^
 

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That's very ambitious, and there's a lot of things to consider.
For example, if you can switch at any point, you need to make sure that the player knows where to go next, and that the character's story arc isn't confusing because you picked up at a point that isn't the start. Now if you want to make the story non-linear, you're in for a lot of work.
Yeah , i've thought about it.
I don't see this happening. Not even the biggest game studios with hundreds of people working fulltime on a game for years on end are able to pull this off. Not even if scaled back into "mere" hundreds of unique NPC's, it doesn't happen.
I guess we all dream of making some huge game that would rival the all-time classics made by professional studios, but realistically speaking, that's simply impossible. Most normal, small-sized projects made in RPG Maker don't even get finished, and those that do usually have taken years to get there. Still, if you feel like it's something you want to do, then you should go for it; no matter how unrealistic it may seem.
But if your goal is to finish a game, it's good to know the limits. And nobody is going to write multiple thousand NPC backstories and make unique, fitting skill sets that are all playable all on their own. I won't believe it until I see it.
I'll try , but i think you got me wrong in here. Once again , i haven't showed the whole thing and you might be thinking i'm trying to create the new "Grand Theft Auto" when i'm trying to create something like "Rocket League" or whatever looks simple for the current generation standards. That's why i would need to present a demo before showing anything else. But anyways , i'll try
 

macclunkey

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That's very ambitious, and there's a lot of things to consider.
For example, if you can switch at any point, you need to make sure that the player knows where to go next, and that the character's story arc isn't confusing because you picked up at a point that isn't the start. Now if you want to make the story non-linear, you're in for a lot of work.
Yeah , i thought about for a long time. I've spent day and night thinking about a way to perfectly adapt my vision to this game engine and see what's possible and what's not possible. My attempt to solve this issue would be to only allow the player to chose one character per game day , this way i would also be able perfectly control the other characters routine without giving then this complex AI that walks around the map doing tasks. That way it would be much more possible to make the game nonlinear. I know there's a long road ahead and i've been constantly trying to solve problems and think about some other problems i might not see yet. Wish me luck haha
 

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This is not something you can do. Whether it is something one can do is very debatable, but there's no debate to be had about your ability to do this. This isn't a personal attack, and if you have oh, say a dozen completed games of more practical scope under your belt, then correct me because I'm wrong.

Good luck, tho. Like, unironically I don't want you to let my estimation of what is possible stop you.

(400-500 professional programmers often working crunch overtime (sometimes 100+ hours per week) over the course of 8+ years for a total of like eight BILLION man hours of labor failed spectacularly to make a convincing city full of even NPCs. It's been in the news a lot lately.)

edit: SCOPE CONSTRAINT:
Make it a school, not a city. Make it a small private school. Like, maybe two dozen maps. And then it might be doable to have a few dozen playable protagonists if this is all you want to do with your free time for the next few years.
 

macclunkey

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Depends. How much experience do you have in game development? There are a few games known for their massive rosters, but it will take lots of manpower and also lots of experience under ones belt to organize and design it all. Is it crazy? A bit, if you're not experienced and have a very dedicated team. Is it impossible? No. I don't think it sounds like a particularly good idea myself, though, if I'm honest. I also rarely liked any of the other games where its selling point was big rosters. I prefer quality of characters > quantity of characters and usually if you're focused on numbers you won't so much be on depth, as is proven by all those other games. Good luck.^^
Thanks !!!! I do have experience and i fear it may not be enough for this. But yet , i have to at least try , because i got somenthing to prove. I've already spent a good part of the year carefully analysing the limitations of this and other engines , to see what part of my vision would fit into the game and what would not.
I just wanted to make sure I know what exactly I got in my hands right now , that's why I'm here. The other guys already gave me an idea , but you just answered both questions. So I'd like to thank you , i really appreciate it !!!!
 

macclunkey

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This is not something you can do. Whether it is something one can do is very debatable, but there's no debate to be had about your ability to do this. This isn't a personal attack, and if you have oh, say a dozen completed games of more practical scope under your belt, then correct me because I'm wrong.

Good luck, tho. Like, unironically I don't want you to let my estimation of what is possible stop you.

(400-500 professional programmers often working crunch overtime (sometimes 100+ hours per week) over the course of 8+ years for a total of like eight BILLION man hours of labor failed spectacularly to make a convincing city full of even NPCs. It's been in the news a lot lately.)

edit: SCOPE CONSTRAINT:
Make it a school, not a city. Make it a small private school. Like, maybe two dozen maps. And then it might be doable to have a few dozen playable protagonists if this is all you want to do with your free time for the next few years.
Well , you guys are really expressing yourselves on how crazy this is , but i think I've said something wrong and might be giving you the wrong idea. If that's the case , then i'm sorry , I should have picked the right words.
I got the feeling you guys think that i'm aspiring to create this advanced open-world simulation game where npc's with complex AI walk around doing tasks and interacting with everything , being extremely participative to the story. If that's the case then i'm sorry , I came here talking about creating anomalies and got you thinking about simulations.
What I propose is a common game with a big map divided in small maps with a lot of npc's with common AI staying at one place that represents a certain activity that has been stablished by their backstory , all because they are connected to this huge route system where there's thousands of versions of the same map representing a different outcome for the player's actions. That's where I started to have my doubts on this , because the idea of creating a lot of versions of the same map sound as crazy as creating a complex simulation on a game engine designed for retro games.
So now you , last guy who told me about this. The reason you telling me I can't do it is because of what truly meant to say here. If that's the case , then I'm sorry again because I've made you read this , but I need your help to make things clear.
 

Milennin

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No, I'm saying that even if the characters are fully stationary, I don't see any person writing backstories for each and every one of them, if their count is in the 1000's. Even if you did one-liners only, it'd still be an insane amount of work, and not just to type them out, but to come up with enough ideas for all of it.
You also haven't answered what it would bring to the table, apart from being a gimmick. How is this going to enhance player experience over a game with a small group of well fleshed out characters? It's not like each individual player is even going to see 1% of the work put into it.
Nor have you answered that how beyond backstories, how is it going to affect the gameplay? Because I assume you're making a game, and not just a city with NPC's to talk to. So how is each character going to be different to make it worth making thousands of them? What are their skill sets going to look like?
 

macclunkey

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No, I'm saying that even if the characters are fully stationary, I don't see any person writing backstories for each and every one of them, if their count is in the 1000's. Even if you did one-liners only, it'd still be an insane amount of work, and not just to type them out, but to come up with enough ideas for all of it.
You also haven't answered what it would bring to the table, apart from being a gimmick. How is this going to enhance player experience over a game with a small group of well fleshed out characters? It's not like each individual player is even going to see 1% of the work put into it.
Nor have you answered that how beyond backstories, how is it going to affect the gameplay? Because I assume you're making a game, and not just a city with NPC's to talk to. So how is each character going to be different to make it worth making thousands of them? What are their skill sets going to look like?
Ironically , writing about the characters is what is turning out to be the easy part of it. I have actually found people to help me with this issue and i could also do it all by myself , since i don't require as much detail for their background as you may think. The hard part is actually what i came here asking about , because i understand how crazy that sounds and yet i wanna try it , because i can perfectly see a very interesting game completly finished in a near future.
I came here expecting to see a veteran saying he tried to do something like this and it didn't work because of this and that other reason , instead i got you people , who seem to be taking this way too personally.
Look man , i've just expressed myself wrong and from the way i see it , you're making assumptions of me before i can even say anything.
I've started this thread only asking these 2 questions because , like i said , there would be too much reading for nothing and this would just waste your time. When you asked about it , i gave you a quick answer for the same reason and also because my question had nothing to do with it , so it would be better just to save it for another thread.
If you wanna know the full details , i'll tell you , i'll even spoil the whole game for you. So we can settle this once and for all. If i'm wrong then i'm wrong , but if i'm right then that means i'm right.
The answer i gave you explains exactly what the game is about and how the mechanics work , i didn't gave you a proper answer about the fighting system because , once again , too much text. Besides , fighting is the least interesting part of the game.
This game is not even close to what i might have unintentionally made you think it is , the whole purpose of this game is to create an illusion and fool the player to make him think he is playing this advanced nonlinear simulation game where all characters and choices he make matter , when in reality , he's just playing a linear game where he is presented to a route system with a wide but yet limited amount of choices he can make (that will only result on him winning or losing the game at the end) and great number of pawns he can control. The thing with the characters being pawns is because some of them can only be used as bait for you or the unexisting enemy (who is just the game over screen that comes after a bad choice) and only some of these pawns are actually useful for the player, but he has to find out wich ones are the useful ones , by paying attention to the game's lore. While this happens , the game goes on a constant loop until time runs out and we jump right into the bad ending with the game over screen. During this whole loop thing , the player gets the option to play as any character he wants and live the character's life , following his routine and making small choices that can change him as a person but may not be significant to the game. You also can do certain activities to improve the character's abilities (that also may not be signifcant) and fight some times , but i don't focus on fighting becase that completly misses the point of the game , wich is to play around for enogh time to fully understand the lore and figure out wich characters are the useful ones. That's what i mean by "prophecy system" , if the player never manage to unlock the unique event with the "chosen one" characters before time is up , then that means it' game over and all characters will die.
And that's it , that's EXACTLY what i aim to do in this game , all because i wanted to go a little "experimental" with it. There's no crazy ambition behind. It's all because i felt like playing something like this.
Now that you know everything , let's just put an end to this , so people will stop coming here to argue about it. It's all up to you now
 

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Your original questions were: “How crazy is this?” and “How many people would I need to help?” You say you want answers based on experience. And that is exactly the feedback you are getting, but you don’t seem to like what you are hearing. It’s not their fault you don’t like what you hear.


“How crazy is this?” Pretty crazy, because experience in the game dev community demonstrates that you are unlikely to finish. It’s not an attack on you, as you seem to be taking it, but a factual observation based on the vast number of unfinished games on these forums alone. Hundreds, if not thousands of games with much smaller scope lie abandoned.

“How many people do I need?” Again, from experience, we can’t just give you an exact number or even an estimate. There is no magical formula as it depends on so many variables: what skills your helpers have, the strength of those actual skills, how dedicated they really are long term (enthusiasm wanes quickly), the amount of time per week they have to actually work with you, whether they feel invested enough to abandon their own ideas to devote their time to this project and how often you have to replace people when those originally enthusiastic get bored and drift away.

And that doesn’t even take in your ability to get people on board in the first place. Having some grand concept frankly isn’t likely to attract the sort of talent you’d ideally like to get. The people with the experience you really want are people that won’t give some grand lofty idea the time of day. Because, again, their experience says this is just another “too big” idea that will be abandoned.

Please don’t take this as a personal attack. It’s not. You wanted to hear from those with more experience. We are telling you this based on experience. And it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.

If you want people to believe in you and your ability to finish this, prove it. Work on a much smaller scale demo. As a previous poster said, try a small work up with 20 characters confined to a few small areas. SHOW you can do this, SHOW how it will be unique and fun to play. Then people will be enthusiastic too and maybe even want to help.
 

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Your original questions were: “How crazy is this?” and “How many people would I need to help?” You say you want answers based on experience. And that is exactly the feedback you are getting, but you don’t seem to like what you are hearing. It’s not their fault you don’t like what you hear.


“How crazy is this?” Pretty crazy, because experience in the game dev community demonstrates that you are unlikely to finish. It’s not an attack on you, as you seem to be taking it, but a factual observation based on the vast number of unfinished games on these forums alone. Hundreds, if not thousands of games with much smaller scope lie abandoned.

“How many people do I need?” Again, from experience, we can’t just give you an exact number or even an estimate. There is no magical formula as it depends on so many variables: what skills your helpers have, the strength of those actual skills, how dedicated they really are long term (enthusiasm wanes quickly), the amount of time per week they have to actually work with you, whether they feel invested enough to abandon their own ideas to devote their time to this project and how often you have to replace people when those originally enthusiastic get bored and drift away.

And that doesn’t even take in your ability to get people on board in the first place. Having some grand concept frankly isn’t likely to attract the sort of talent you’d ideally like to get. The people with the experience you really want are people that won’t give some grand lofty idea the time of day. Because, again, their experience says this is just another “too big” idea that will be abandoned.

Please don’t take this as a personal attack. It’s not. You wanted to hear from those with more experience. We are telling you this based on experience. And it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.

If you want people to believe in you and your ability to finish this, prove it. Work on a much smaller scale demo. As a previous poster said, try a small work up with 20 characters confined to a few small areas. SHOW you can do this, SHOW how it will be unique and fun to play. Then people will be enthusiastic too and maybe even want to help.
PixeLockeT already answered both questions and i fully understand. Most people who are more optimistic about it would probably say something like : "Yes ? No ? Maybe ? Who knows..." and that's fine. But after seeing first more direct answer , i got the impression that i might have given you guys the wrong and made you think i that i'm talking about making a revolutinary game and all i need right now is one of these guys to confirm that they are indeed talking about my original idea. Because when they bring things that are not really related to RPG maker , i get the impression that everyone who visited this thread so far might be interpreting that i'm talking about using the game engine to make something highly advanced and "ahead of it's time" , when i'm actually talking about exaggerating with this feature that works perfectly fine in a small scale and overdoing up to the point where it's absurd but never changing the other aspects of the game engine.
I telling you , i'm not taking this as a personal attack , i am truly asking if there haven't been any misunderstanding. If that's the case , then it's alright , i really can do this and we all can leave this thread.
And also , i knew that most games here don't even get to be finished even before i started using RPG Maker. Wich makes way more confunsing when you use projects outside of the RPG Meker's spere as an example. Like i said before , i came here asking about it just to fully know what i'm trying to do.
I was talking about releasing a demo to explain it better , but now i see it might not work at all on RPG Maker.
So now we just need 1 guy to show up here and confirm it , then that's it
 

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I guess you are not being clear about the information you are looking for then. I literally answered your questions, but again, you don't seem satisfied with them. And now you are saying you just need 1 guy to "confirm" it - what does that mean? Confirm what?
 

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There is one person I know, (yes, one person).

And this person has like 70's playable characters at this point in his game and he is still continuing his game since 2012 (or 2013, I forgot), and a year of hiatus. Having the game reworked several times, even almost going back to zero since the concept didn't work well.

Are you willing to commit yourself to such an amount of time and effort to make a game? You need to be the spearhead of the project so that the project will not end. You can not rely on teammates, the time you thought "I can not finish this project because no one helps me", then it is the end of your project.

Yes, I have shown this topic to the person in question.
And he just giggled and prefer to watch from afar seeing how it turns out.
 

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I guess you are not being clear about the information you are looking for then. I literally answered your questions, but again, you don't seem satisfied with them. And now you are saying you just need 1 guy to "confirm" it - what does that mean? Confirm what?
You know what... Let's just forget about it , this conversation never happened.
 
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There is one person I know, (yes, one person).

And this person has like 70's playable characters at this point in his game and he is still continuing his game since 2012 (or 2013, I forgot), and a year of hiatus. Having the game reworked several times, even almost going back to zero since the concept didn't work well.

Are you willing to commit yourself to such an amount of time and effort to make a game? You need to be the spearhead of the project so that the project will not end. You can not rely on teammates, the time you thought "I can not finish this project because no one helps me", then it is the end of your project.

Yes, I have shown this topic to the person in question.
And he just giggled and prefer to watch from afar seeing how it turns out.
Then tell him i said give up and i'm gonna kill myself or something , he'll probably laugh himself to tears with this one.
Just forget about this thread and let's go back to to our daily stuff.
It's over now , peace.
 

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Sure. But don’t delete your posts again. Our rules ask members not to do that as it makes things unreadable.
 
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