Ultimacj

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As a developer, I had this as a major problem and concern from feedback to users and dumb it down a bit when I use to use VX Ace. However, the same problem persists with MV as well: healing magic and support magic of spells.

For my projects I put little to no stats to magic evasion and magic reflection, because I do not want healing magic or buffs to bounce or "miss" on the party or even the enemy. For the player, this can either make or break party. I've searched high and low even for a plugin or solution to prevent this but haven't found anything yet.

Is there a way to program or tell MV that when a player is casting a spell on a party member that is specific to healing or a buff that it WON'T bounce back onto another enemy or onto a party member that is it not intended for? If they have any passive ability or equipment that has the "magic reflection" or "magic evasion" property on there, there's a chance that the player will evade it their own healing spell (or even the enemy casts on itself and the enemy or another enemy has this property). I only want offensive attack magic (like fire for example) that can be evaded or reflected.

If I want a specifc spell to have a chance not to succeed that is what the success rate for the skill is for but that defeats the purpose of what I'm trying to have. There really needs to be the option of can this spell be evaded or reflected attached with the spell rather than on or off completely. Has anyone figured out how to solve this?
 

Andar

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simply make your healing skills "certain hit" and it will ignore evasion and so on.

You can see the different parts of the effects in this flowchart:
 

Tiamat-86

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all support and healing abilities and items should be 'certain hit'
certain hit skills ignore hit/evasion/reflect rates, as well as ignore state apply/remove rates.
every aspect of the skill just becomes guarantied.

the only time wouldnt use certain hit for a healing/support ability is if the skills is for example only supposed to have a 10% chance to cure poison (it will ignore the % chance and just do it anyways),
or if "Reflect"(100% magic reflect) spell is meant to also include healing/support magical actions. (in which case just dont use magic evasion in that project because of exactly this issue)
 

ATT_Turan

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In addition to the information above, there are a number of plugins (including one I provided in a thread last week or so) that allow you to customize how reflection works.
 

Ultimacj

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I've done that and seen the improvement but then that gets rid of the player attack animation for magic which i don't want to remove. So I'm back the drawing board. I want both the magical animation of casting the spell AND the spell it self. "Certain Hit" removes the magical animation of casting giving it a less dramatic effect that it's originally intended for.

Even spells like revive will fail because of the reflection. I've only played a handful of RM games but if you think about it, have you ever played a game were a revive spell REFLECTS off the dead player rendering it ineffective?? I mean their dead, that shouldn't happen. This also has happened with magic evasion but more rarely (how they evade magic while dead beats me ha ha)

Can you link me this plugin I've searched high and low and I've not found something that completes this requirement. This honestly should be a toggle feature in RM, it's a common sense thing unless one actually wants that kind of feature (which would make sense for character lore or class if it demands it).

Many thanks!
 

Tiamat-86

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but then that gets rid of the player attack animation for magic which i don't want to remove
you definitely have plugins that are changing unintended stuff then. because casting animation isnt normally related to hit type, thats linked to the 'SV magic skill types' in the system tab.
(probably yanfly battle engine core plugin parameter. can fix this with <cast animation: X> notetag
revive spell REFLECTS off the dead player
and default engine removes all states on death, so you have something else thats allowing <ignore death removal> on the reflect state
(buff and state extension StateCategories plugin notetag, just remove the bypass death notetag from the reflect state)
 
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Ultimacj

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No I've had reflect attribute occur a few times under vanilla before adding any plugins for graphical features. The only plugin I use (before and after with the same effect) is Moghunters Battle Hud, which changes the display on the field. No other battle modifications have been applied, but as I said before, it has done it under vanilla conditions.
 

ATT_Turan

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Everything Tiamat said is correct - MV by default does not change your casting animation by hit type and strips all states off an actor when they die. There are plugins to change both of these bits of functionality, so you definitely can customize this whole situation however you like.

Did you change your knock out state from ID 1? A lot of the game's functionality is hard-coded to that number, so if you moved KO/death it's possible that could be causing your problems with seeing reflection/evasion while dead.

As far as the code I told you I had just written - if you did a search for "reflection" and my name, you find this:
 
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Ultimacj

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Nope knockout is still the default. The only thing I changed in that. Was from "Knockout" to "Death"
 

ATT_Turan

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Blast from the past here. Well...I can't duplicate your problems, so I don't have much new to say. So here are a few things that will either help you troubleshoot or understand what's going on.

There are a few expectations the engine has when it comes to magic and reflection.
1) Magic that you want to always have its effect is Certain Hit.
2) Reflection is gained temporarily via states.

These two things are based on how games/series in the genre function, so they're designed to emulate the effects you see in those games. Now, corresponding to those two things:
1) Certain Hit is hard coded to ignore reflection.
2) States are stripped off an actor upon death.

So, vanilla game, if you're following those expectations, it is impossible for the situation you describe with dead actors reflecting to occur.

Now, you absolutely can choose to design your game in ways other than fulfilling those expectations, but you should know that's what you're doing and understand how it will work.
1) Your entire reason for not wanting to use Certain Hit was related to a misunderstanding with a plugin, and you were told how to work around that, so I'm not sure why this is still any issue.
2) If you put reflection on something that's not a state (your armor, class, the actor) then it will persist when the actor is dead and it's absolutely logical that it do so.

One well-known game that messed with both of those expectations is Final Fantasy Tactics. In that game, evasion applies to magic attacks (which is sensible enough, it's hard to target a darting enemy with a fireball). All units also have a Faith stat, representing how likely they are to be affected by magic; in effect, reverse evade. This persists in death, a unit with low Faith doesn't become susceptible to magic just because they're unconscious.

But even in FFT, reflection is a state granted temporarily by skills and that will go away on death.

Of course, the entire MV engine is written in JavaScript that you can modify via plugins to behave however you want. But a number of your posts in this thread have been in the style of "But it works like this!" and been somewhat mistaken. So you can make a plugin request to make everything work exactly the way you want, but it's important to understand how and why it works to begin with.
 

Ultimacj

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Pretty much don't do it is what your saying. Got it. No reflection status the players will be given that can be the "work around" so it doesn't "break" the game let alone make a player get upset to a broken mechanic. Bummer I cannot use reflection for players but at least on monsters WOULD be nice if they fixed this error rather than relying on the community to do that fix. Appericate the answers. I haven't used MZ yet but I hope that's an issue has been/or will be addressed in the future.

As for FFT game play. I've played FFT and I've casted revive on my down party members. Not once did it bounce off or evade it when they were DEAD.
 

Sword_of_Dusk

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Pretty much don't do it is what your saying. Got it. No reflection status the players will be given that can be the "work around" so it doesn't "break" the game let alone make a player get upset to a broken mechanic. Bummer I cannot use reflection for players but at least on monsters WOULD be nice if they fixed this error rather than relying on the community to do that fix. Appericate the answers. I haven't used MZ yet but I hope that's an issue has been/or will be addressed in the future.

As for FFT game play. I've played FFT and I've casted revive on my down party members. Not once did it bounce off or evade it when they were DEAD.
He didn't say "don't do it." If you choose not to do the work to get things working, that's on you. Nothing is broken about how the system works. You received the explanations you desired, so you just gotta act on the new info.

Also, Phoenix Downs are the only 100% way to revive someone in FFT. Any magical means of doing so can miss thanks to the way Faith affects magic evade. So yes, the Arise spell can miss a dead member if you're unlucky.
 

Trihan

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Pretty much don't do it is what your saying. Got it. No reflection status the players will be given that can be the "work around" so it doesn't "break" the game let alone make a player get upset to a broken mechanic. Bummer I cannot use reflection for players but at least on monsters WOULD be nice if they fixed this error rather than relying on the community to do that fix. Appericate the answers. I haven't used MZ yet but I hope that's an issue has been/or will be addressed in the future.

As for FFT game play. I've played FFT and I've casted revive on my down party members. Not once did it bounce off or evade it when they were DEAD.
You can have reflection in your game, you just need to make sure it's a temporary thing applied via a state. If you put it on a permanent object, the reflection will be permanent. This isn't a bug, there is no other way that could work.
 

ATT_Turan

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Pretty much don't do it is what your saying. Got it.
...I did not say that at all. I tried to explain to you how the mechanics work.
No reflection status the players will be given that can be the "work around" so it doesn't "break" the game let alone make a player get upset to a broken mechanic.
I still don't understand what you think is broken about a status with reflect on it.
Bummer I cannot use reflection for players but at least on monsters WOULD be nice if they fixed this error
What error?
As for FFT game play. I've played FFT and I've casted revive on my down party members. Not once did it bounce off or evade it when they were DEAD.

Also, Phoenix Downs are the only 100% way to revive someone in FFT. Any magical means of doing so can miss thanks to the way Faith affects magic evade. So yes, the Arise spell can miss a dead member if you're unlucky.
What Sword said. A unit's Faith value is a straight up percentage for any spell to affect them - you can see this on the screen when you've selected the spell and are targeting them, before you confirm the action. If you try to resurrect a unit and it fails their Faith roll, it absolutely misses.
 

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