Mapping Helpdesk [Last update: Mountains (17th April) and Misc answers (18th)]

[Cryranos]

Could you make a tutorial about Back Dimension/Dark Space type areas, and how to make them interesting?

Even a tutorial on standard cave mapping would also be helpful.

 

[Sharm]

I second the cave request.  If you'd like more specific, I'm trying to do a mine.

 

[Lunarea]

If it's alright with Indrah, I'd be happy to post some hints and considerations with mapping a mine area.

 

[Indrah]

How dare you Luna, this is mah turf! >[


Kiddin, please do XD


I won't be able to make a tut for the day anwyay :I Maybe I'll be able to tackle the Moutain maps tomorrow if I can manage it. (and there's a few people still in line before the caves in any case :/)

 

[PixelLuchi]

I didn't even know these little tutorials existed. I must say though, very good job here, Indrah. Those library NPCs made me laugh. I'll bee keeping an eye out for them, and when I get more time, I'll read through the whole thing. I need some tips now and then. :] And I did a tutorial on how to map a mining area ages ago too. Not sure if it will be as useful, though.

 

[Lunarea]

Mapping a Mine​

 ​

Do:

- Remember that mines are man-made.

Despite being in a very natural setting, you can use the same simple and orderly lines that you would use in a castle map. This is especially important for tile-based mapping, as it's much more difficult to create true "natural" randomness with tiles. You can use clear lines, symmetry and squareness without making the map look unrealistic.

- Use a relatively straight main passage with various branches.

It is easiest and most effective to have one main line that miners can use to transport ore (this is the main passage). The branches are where the veins run. They are only followed for as long as there's ore, and quickly abandoned if the miner encounters things like impenetrable walls. It's a perfect setup for game exploration and adding reward-like treasures.

- Add reinforcement to walls.

A mine could easily collapse if the weight of the rock isn't distributed equally. Miners use wood beams and/or wire netting on the mine ceiling to reinforce the mine. It's crucial to add these reinforcements, so that a mine collapse only takes out a section of the mine instead of the entire network.

- Keep tracks as close to the mining area as possible.

Carrying heavy loads is time-consuming and inefficient. Miners want to be able to remove the debris, stone and ore quickly to keep moving forward.

- Add specks of ore that the miners were mining.

Whether it it be crystals or sparkles, adding a little shine can make the mine seem less repetitive.

- Include landmarks and/or a map.

Being underground is a disorienting experience. Miners used to mark walls or build some kind of landmark to help find the way in and out of the mine. Make use of this system to help guide the player.

Don't:

- Avoid using candles, fire or torches.

The space is small and enclosed, so it's easy to burn up oxygen and end up with the poisonous carbon monoxide. Instead, use a generator and some form of electric lighting (see tileset at the end of the post). In case you are working with a pre-electricity setting, you can also use safety lamps or phosphorescent dried fish skin, mushroom or crystal.

- Don't make giant open spaces that was created by miners.

They would not be structurally sound. At the same time, remember that you're making a game and that the player needs to be able to move through the map. Things like narrow winding passages might look fun, but they're a pain to navigate.

- Don't add a lot of debris to the floor.

Debris is cleared and carried away in carts, just like ore. This is done to minimize miner accidents and things such as carts overturning. The ground also has a smooth texture because it's walked on repeatedly by miners. Save your detail for walls and objects, which you can add quite a lot of.

- Don't forget water.

This is especially useful if you plan on having things like large natural caves (ex. boss area), as one of the ways caves are formed is through water erosion. Water in some form may also be necessary in ore/mineral/gem formation.

- Don't go overboard with shadows.

Although caves are by nature dark, mines tend to be well-lit. Be subtle with shadows.

Example:

And there you have it. It's mostly theory and not a whole lot of visual examples, but mines don't make the most exciting-looking maps anyway.

Here's the object Tileset I used for the map:

Spoiler

Feel free to use it.

 

[Kaje]

Hey Lunarea, I'm wondering if you could do some sort of tutorial on how to make the "stage select" style of world map like the one in Twice Upon a Hero. It's a really cool system and I'd love to know how it's done.

 

[Sharm]

Thanks Lunarea, that's exactly what I needed!  I'll have to use lanterns instead of electric in my game, but the rest is all going in. 

 

[Lunarea]

@Kaje:

Do you mean how to make that sort of map, or how to create the teleport system itself?

@Sharm:

You can also use safety lamps. They're sort of like lanterns, but have a couple extra features that make them safer to use.

And that article mentions the coolest form of lighting: dried fish skin. It gave a faint phosphorescent light. You can take this idea further and use phosphorescent crystals or mushrooms.

 

[Kaje]

I mean how to make the teleport system where you move a cursor to a location on the map and teleport there.

 

[Lunarea]

I will see if I can make that tutorial sometimes, but it won't be in this thread- since it's not mapping and all.

 

[Kaje]

Awesome, thanks for listening to my request!

 

[Zack]

I've never really needed help with my mapping; my greatest weakness "map-wise" Is my inability to find good tiles. Especially for "Evilesque" castles. Do you plan on releasing the tile you used to make that Demon Castle map? It would be perfect for something I've been wanting to make for a while.

 

[Indrah]

The tiles for the sample are all rtp with some slight color changes at most. There's nothing to release.

 

[RyanA]

Feel free to use it.

Free tiles!! *Dive*

 

[Ari]

Okay - diving in with my first project - I have questions about overland or 'world' mapping right off the bat.

The goal:  I'd like to create the premise of a small-ish area the character(s) travels in - moving from city to city/towns to town, visiting a neighboring farmland, etc.   Still not quite close enough to easily "walk to", but not far enough away to require "world" travel much.  However, I'm intending that this story be a bit of a prequel to a much bigger story - so I'd still like to hint that there is a bigger world out there, though more for story development, and less about actual playing - but would still like to "hint at it" on the overland map.

Problems/Questions:

1)  Any suggestions on how to hint at the larger world without actually representing an entire map greatly appreciated.  Still haven't wrapped my head around quite how to accomplish that

2) There are 1 or 2 locations that I'd like the character to be able to travel to that are somewhat out of the "neighborhood" travel equation - but again, it would be like just traveling to the "fringes" of those locations as the goal.  Not immersing the player in those locations much (yet).  For example, I'd like my player to be able to travel to a port of call for some "exotic" materials - but not necessarily visit the region proper that they came from.  Maybe travel to to a coastal village that is on a trade route heading that way or some such... (hope this all makes sense)

3)  I'm not much of pixel artist/spriter at all - and most of the overland map objects don't quite represent a semi-modern city (think rural England or New England sort of feel -  not quite medieval fantasy, but not modern day NYC either) Harvest Moon or River King type games have the sort of the setting I'm thinking of for those familiar with those titles.  The little villages surround by wooden or picket fences are probably the closest fit on the field tile set from the VX Ace RTP.  So also wondering if anyone knows of other tile sets that might suit better available for public use or have advice on how I might frankensprite the RTP tiles to suit.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice (and typical newb-ish apologies if I'm somehow regurgitating already covered territory - I did try to search for awhile before posting)

Ari

 

[Lunarea]

You could have a local "world" map for the areas the player will be visiting. That part of the map has detail with things like town names, etc. The rest of the world map can be present, but without detail. Just a general landmass shape and name is good enough. You can also use Celianna's map maker to get a visual representation of the world without having to map an entire world.

Example:

The rest will mostly be accomplished via books or NPC chatter. Having a large world makes for excellent NPC dialogue (especially if they talk about the other cultures, politics or events), without making the player think "oh, I need to remember this!".

 

[Ari]

Didn't want to double post, so am just editing (newest on top) my last post to add my questions and screenshot.  (A few attempts and image posting idiocy on my part aside *sigh*)

Okay, so in the screenshot below, I've started mapping out my Overland.  I am trying to blend Celianna's wonderful World Map Maker style with the chipset/tiles from Ace RTP for overland maps.  I like the affect - sort of - but I'm struggling with a few things.  I also applied a sort of pseudo-sepia affect to all the RTP bits, with the idea that as the player "unlocks" certain areas on the map, they will colorize.

My questions are:

1)  Is there any quick tips or tricks to photoshopping the trees, mnts and other landscape elements from the RTP - or is it just literally a "cut and paste and group" by hand process?  (A bit daunting if it is)

2)  I'm really struggling with path making - not being much of a pixel artist probably has a lot to do with it - but could anyone point me to some tutorials or offer hints/tips on how to get a less..erm..."icky" looking path?   The map is a teleporter/overview - not a walking map anyway, so its mostly for asthetics

3)  Probably a game mechanics or eventing question, but is it possible to only reload bits and pieces of the map after certain conditions are met, or must it be a whole new "map" graphic each time? (Hope I framed that question well enough)

Also, critiques and points for improvements most welcome - but please keep in mind I am that I'm a sort of beginning pixeler with little to zero talent for it so I fully accept and acknowledge that my pixeling skills will probably always suck quite a bit compared to some here.

My map in progress:

Spoiler

----------

Thanks Lunarea -

Funny, after I posted that I came across Celianna's Map Maker while poking around and had already downloaded it when I read your post.   And yeah, I think that's probably the way to go - sort of "fade" the landmass(s) out that aren't currently relevant in the game. And I love your idea about using NPC Dialogue and "books" to hint at the rest.

Thanks for the response and tips. 

Ari

 

[zerophase]

How would I map objects to the center of objects?  I'm trying to pull off an effect similar to this image.

I'm guessing I have to split the image on top of the pillar into 2 tiles, or is there another way of doing it?

 

[Alexander Amnell]

Right now I'm in the middle of trying to create a woodland style area for my game. It basically is composed of: A southern starting area that leads to a manor house in the center of the woods and a trail leading from

the manor to a nearby village that is at the edge of the woods. My biggest problem is that the map just looks to open, or else I try to hard to close it off and it stops looking like a woods and looks more like a dungeon with trees in it. I can't seem to make anything that looks at all realistic in that regard, any advice.