Mature discussion warning; Should animal who attacks person be put down?

Discussion in 'General Lounge' started by Tuomo L, Oct 10, 2018.

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If animal mauls human, should the animal be put down?

  1. Yes, always

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%
  2. Yes, but only in severe cases that lead to death

    7 vote(s)
    53.8%
  3. No, there has to be alternative solution

    5 vote(s)
    38.5%
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  1. Tuomo L

    Tuomo L Oldbie Veteran

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    Let's keep this discussion mature due to the nature of the article which involved actual person dying.

    I am sure we have all read a story or two where a case where an animal has mauled human and have been put down as a result, whatever a dog, tiger or bear.

    However, something happened just a while ago in Japan that made me think. I'll quote from the news article here.

    "It's been more than half-a-century since a white tiger was last seen in the wild. The last one know to roam freely was shot in 1958, and the hundreds who remain now live in captivity.

    On Monday, one of those captive tigers fatally mauled a man at a zoo in Japan. But rather than opt for revenge, his family is intent on keeping the rare animal alive." (Source)

    [​IMG]

    There are only 200 white tigers in the entire world.

    It's very admirable from the family and I wish them nothing but the best to recover from this horrible event. However, it made me thinking... Have people been too quick to judge and put other animals down? Should an animal that attacks person be put down or is there an alternative?

    Discuss.
     
    #1
  2. Isabella Ava

    Isabella Ava Veteran Veteran

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    Was it a cat's fault if he ate a fish because you place the fried fish right in front of his face? (;¬_¬)
     
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  3. Tuomo L

    Tuomo L Oldbie Veteran

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    I'm posting again, just to give my own opinion and not having it affect my OP's neutral stance.

    I have always had the belief that if an animal has already mauled someone, it should be put down. Many years ago my mother told me how a girl she was treating had been attacked by her best friend's dog. The dog was not put down. The girl didn't want to visit her best friend, she was too scared to come visit her again, thinking that the dog would attack her even if they assured the dog had been taken out for a walk or into the backyard or something, she had permanent traumas. Later the dog attacked again, this time the best friend and then it was put down.

    The theory as many have had and the reason the animals have been put down is that an animal that mauls humans, is very likely to do it again.
     
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  4. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    animals don't just attack people for no reason.
    if an attack happened, it's because the person didn't get the message.

    for instance, the Harambe incident..... the gorilla tried to help the kid.
    he didn't go crazy until AFTER the guards and the people around started to make a mess trying to get the kid out of there, fueled by the mother of the kid going crazy on them, because the kid was now suddenly in the arms *of a freaking gorilla*, because *she* failed to secure the kid in the first place!

    I've seen dogs go crazy on strangers, and most of the time it happened that said stranger had a dog of their own.
    *news flash*, dogs can smell.
    people consistently fail to understand that there are creatures in the world with increased senses...... and that's their first mistake.
     
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  5. Tuomo L

    Tuomo L Oldbie Veteran

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    The girl that I told about did literally nothing to the dog. She was sitting alone on couch waiting for her best friend, the dog sneaked upon her and attacked her for absolute no reason.
     
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  6. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    did that girl had a dog of her own?

    from the news article
    he entered the tiger's domain, the tiger retaliated.
    mystery solved.
     
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  7. Shaz

    Shaz Veteran Veteran

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    I think every case needs to be considered on its own.

    Did it happen because the animal was vicious, or did it happen because the animal was provoked? I've seen so many instances of people doing stupid things to animals just to show off - in those cases I usually think they deserve whatever happens to them (I've never actually seen anyone injured in these situations - sometimes just given a good fright and a wake-up call).

    that was from a previous incident in 2008.

    In both cases, the men killed were zookeepers who were doing their jobs. You could make the assumption that the men were familiar to the animals, and could probably assume that they weren't being idiots and maybe just weren't paying the usual attention, or the animals were having a particularly bad day. All of those assumptions could be incorrect. Neither attack was witnessed, so you can only guess at what happened and why.
     
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  8. Poryg

    Poryg Dark Lord of the Castle of Javascreeps Veteran

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    If the animal was the hostile side, then it should be put down, since it's a natural way to deal with enemies. If it had natural claims you'd been breaking, you deserve it.
    The only sad thing is, for animals we use guns when they attack humans. Against humans we use prisons as if that was supposed to help something or fix something. We use poison to kill them when they're suffering from cancer or other lethal diseases, humans receive only painkillers with often no option to choose to die.

    This double measurement is what makes me ask way more questions than whether animals should be put down.
     
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  9. kaine

    kaine Veteran Veteran

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    Good point!
    Many people are led to think that animals think like humans.
    Unfortunately they are wrong, the animals are more instinctive, if someone for some reason (even involuntary) invades his personal space, immediately self-defense.
     
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  10. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    if a cat likes you, they'll purr.
    if a cat doesn't like you, they'll scratch you.
    if a wild cat likes you, they'll purr.
    if a wild cat doesn't like you, you won't be able to let everybody else know what they did to let you know they didn't like you.
    that's why people doesn't know what the message for "I don't like you" is, when dealing with a wild cat.
     
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  11. LaFlibuste

    LaFlibuste Veteran Veteran

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    Let's be clear: if an animal attacks a person, it is almost always the person's fault.

    It is not a black and white situation, though. I think the determining factor is whether or not you have to be able to trust the animal. For exemple:

    A tiger in a zoo attacks a dude who entered its cage. I would not put down the animal. Clearly it is entirely the stupid person's fault and the tiger has no blame. Besides, whether or not you can trust the animal to be safe is a moot point because it is supposed to remain behind bars.

    A bear attacks someone in the wild. Probably the person did something stupid to attract/provoke the animal. Would I put the bear down? As it was in the wild, in its natural inhabitat, probably not. But your mileage may vary. But if it was in a highly touristic location, or even in a city or something, then probably yes, because you know this bear will most likely be in contact with people a lot again. Or maybe I'd try to relocate it but how do you know it won't come back/won't be traumatised from it and die anyway (a lot of animals are very territorial)?

    It's entirely different when the attacking animal is a pet, though. Ok, probably the victim provoked them or didn't listen to their signals. We can also safely assume that most of the blame lays with the owner who might not have trained said animal correctly. Still, this is an animal living in your house, you have to be able to trust it won't attack people. If it was a serious attack, especially if it was unprovoked, I would very likely put the animal down.
     
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  12. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    First of all, let's get a few things straight - some animals (including most cats) have strong instincts, including strong killer instincts, and it's not uncommon for individual animals to be headcases. If an animal attacks a human, it's not necessarily (or even likely) the human's fault. In this case the human was a zookeeper, so it's even less likely to be his fault. I believe white tigers (like many large cats) have an instinct to grab things (including their own young) by the neck and drag them around. That's most likely how the zookeeper ended up in the tiger's "domain". Likewise, if a bear comes into your camp at night while you're sleeping, it's going to try to kill you, and it's not your fault for being there.

    To the original question, I feel that in general - and especially when we are keeping animals in captivity (and therefore they are in our care) - we should only euthanize animals to ensure the safety of humans, and not ever out of any form of retribution against the animal. If a rare set of circumstances caused the animal to attack, and it's very unlikely to happen again, we should let the animal keep living the same life it's been living. If it's more likely to attack again in the future, but we have a safe way to let it live (e.g. a quarantine where it's given what it needs to live), we should do that. Only where it would be impossible to care for it without a severe risk of injuring more people should we kill it.
     
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  13. LTN Games

    LTN Games Veteran Veteran

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    Animals shouldn't be put in cages, I'd probably bite someones head off if I was put in a cage as well. No matter what the animal does, to me we still have no right to decide what to do with that animal, especially kill it. I believe in doing to others what you would only want done to yourself, in other words, cause no harm because I myself would not want to be harmed by anyone else.
    In the end though who are we to play a superior being and decide someone or somethings fate? Do you really believe we are worthy of deciding if someone or something lives or not? Last I checked we are all put here to live, who are you or anyone else to decide against that?

    The problem with much of humanities declensions is based off a lie that we are somehow superior to other living beings and we can decide how another should live. While it's true we are superior in terms of mental capacity when compared to animals but shouldn't that be a good enough reason to overcome the killing and decide to harm no one or thing? Otherwise we are really no different than the animal when it acts on instincts. That's my 2 cents and I live by this everyday.
     
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  14. Tuomo L

    Tuomo L Oldbie Veteran

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    I don't think so and even if she had, how would that justify the dog literally mauling and scarring the girl, both physically and mentally?

    And the dog attacked again, this time mauling the daughter of the owners too. So not putting the dog down after first time, caused two girls to become affected instead of one.
     
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  15. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    then that dog had a problem with the family, or the one girl.
    you would have to have known the dog, the environment, the family, and the situation of the day of the attack that the dog happened to find itself in.
    too bad the owners would likely have no clue, and we can't exactly ask the dog directly.
     
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  16. Countyoungblood

    Countyoungblood Sleeping Dragon Veteran

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    We may not like it but killing animals which attack humans prevents future attacks. Right/wrong really isnt the issue since we kill animals for much less sometimes just for fun. Im not a vegetarian and i have no dillusions about the negligable impact would occur if i didnt eat meat but i do so im part of it. A dog or a tiger isnt any more valuable than a chicken or a cow or a deer.

    I wont split hairs over blame when i know we kill what and when we want regardless.
     
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  17. Caitlin

    Caitlin \(=^o^=)/ Kitten shall rule the world!!! Veteran

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    I know that the old belief is that, once, a man killer, always a man killer, but since I am not into animal behavior I can not answer this question. I suppose there is really two questions, one for wild animals and the other for domesticated animals. Wild I can not answer for certain, as I don't know animal behavior and if it is possible to help them. Domesticated animals like dogs, it is possible to help them and dogs who fought like Pit Bulls have been saved. There does come to be a time when an animal is not savable and it is that point where an animal should be put down. When that is, I can not say for certain, because I didn't think certain animals were savable to begin with.
     
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  18. metronome

    metronome Veteran Veteran

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    This is kind of subjective.
    There is no such thing as fact in stating that if an animal attacks people, for 101% sure it's the people's fault
    There is no such thing as fact in stating that if an animal attacks people, for 101% sure it's the animal's fault
    There is no such thing as fact in stating that if an animal attacks people, for 101% sure the fault is shared by both of them (either equally or not).

    I mean, can you even talk to the animal?

    Personally. I don't really care. It's all about on going priority, situation, condition, perception, and context.

    On the one side, you have these story about a tiger of not being put down after killing a human just because it's lucky to be considered rare.
    On the other side, you have these story about almost 300 crocodiles being slaughtered just because one crocodile kills a human in a wrong place of the earth. (source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...codiles/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b904f8921d34)
    On the other side of irony, you hear the story about people donates 1000x times more money for ONE panda than hundreds of hungry and dying people in Africa.
    And of course on the other side of irony's other side, you hear a man is making a lot of money pretending to be "abused animal savior", while in truth, what he is doing is abusing the animals himself and then asking for money for "saving" them.

    Such is humanity.
     
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  19. Benny Jackdaw

    Benny Jackdaw Ratty! Veteran

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    I usually don't care about random people unless I know them personally or as a friend, but even I have to admit that first bit is disheartening. I mean, pandas are endangered and I think we should do whatever we can to save them, but I can't read that without thinking about all the people in Africa that live in agony and need the help too. I often tell myself I don't care about humans, yet. I find myself donating to all kinds of Charities that save lives, both human and animal.

    The second one sounds like trophy hunting in a nutshell, though I don't think that's what you were referring to.

    As for the topic, again like most people are saying, animal should only be put down as a last resort.
     
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  20. Philosophus Vagus

    Philosophus Vagus The drunken bird dog of rpg maker Veteran

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    This issue should always be looked at from a case by case basis and never in the realm of absolutes. Animals attack for a myriad of reasons, and anyone saying that animals only ever attack because humans make stupid mistakes are...mistaken. The bleeding hearts who spout that crap likely don't interact with animals very often outside of controlled environments. Animals can embody most if not all of the anti-social constitutions recorded in humans including psychopathy, sadism and masochism. There have been, many, many recorded instances of unprovoked attacks and 'thrill killings' from a diverse range of animals including dolphins, deer and foxes.

    When you dismiss all animal attacks as: "it's because the person didn't get the message." you are at best dangerously naive and at worst a hackneyed environmentalist wannabe.

    Unless you are yourself a wildcat looking for a good time then I don't like you, fudge off and they'll never find your body all sound something like this:
    You do not want to run out of firewood after hearing that on a dark night outdoors. Trust me, waking up at 2 am and seeing glowing eyes 50 yards off reflecting the embers of a nearly spent campfire as the screaming continues is absolutely terrifying.

    Now that I've slandered all the other animals collectively, time to go after my fellow humans. A large portion of animal attacks (especially domestic) on humanity are absolutely due to human stupidity. 60% of dog attacks, for instance, are on trespassers, not transient dogs chasing people. Now do we consider that justified when it's just a 12 year old who thinks it's fun to yank the dog's chain and then it snaps? Or if the homeowner keeps a beware of dog sign but doesn't leash the dog and a kid on a four wheeler comes tearing through the yard and gets yanked off and mauled (this happened to a neighbor of mine, the kid survived but the dog was put down) is it right? When an environmental activist camps illegally on a known grizzly feeding ground during an unusually scarce pre-hibernation and in his arrogance (due in part to 12 years of experience) with the animals has him thinking he knows better than everyone else and him and his girlfriend get eaten is it the bear to blame? Personally I'd say no.

    In the end I agree with @Wavelength emotionally, but rationally I can accept that sometimes killing is justified on both sides of this spectrum, and other times it isn't. You can live peaceably with animals but you have to respect them and respect where you as a human fit into their environment, be willing to earn your place in that environment if challenged. Even then it isn't always going to be enough. The guy who got killed by the grizzly I was alluding to (Timothy Treadwell for anyone who doesn't know/wants to know) he was intimately familiar with the species that killed him. He advocated for them for years before his death. He died in part because regardless of his love for these magnificent animals he didn't respect their power and their capacity for violence. He allowed familiarity and emotionalism to blind him to the danger, eschewing even the most basic, nonlethal defenses because of how horrible he felt for the bear when he had to use them to defend himself previously. He became complacent with a group of bears he had been around for years and ignored the well known migratory patterns that saw him introduced to different ones the week of his death when he pitched his tent right in the middle of their pre-hibernation feeding grounds. In hindsight this sounds so obvious, but it would be disingenuous to paint it as such. Hindsight is 20/20, the here and now is all to often like running blind even for the experienced.

    I hate the idea of killing in the general sense, whether human or animal, but not to the point where I'd give up my life to an aggressor just because "they shouldn't act like that". I spend more time in the woods than most people, I'm occasionally a government contracted tracker for conservation efforts. I've tracked wolves and bears and foxes, had close calls with mountain lions, and been violently accosted by a raccoon, a doe and almost killed by a gar. You can devote all of your adult life to living among, respecting and loving wildlife and still see it snuffed out in an instant of carelessness or just plain bad luck. Walk softly and carry a big stick wasn't always just political commentary on US foreign policy, the term actually started as a traveler's quip in a dangerous wilderness and fits that scenario much better. In the end this question is just a microcosm of the larger question "Is killing ever justified?" and that's an answer everyone has to decide for themselves...and live with the consequences come what may.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
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