max number of map in mv

[XGuarden]

Apparently max number of map on mv was 999. That by far to few for my projet as i need 10000+.
Anyway to solve that^ by the way, if i try to merge many map, that will create a bug with the core logic of my game.


thanks

 

[Trihan]

I don't think there's a way to solve it besides hacking the editor, but what on earth do you even need 10,000 maps for?

 

[Andar]

If I remember correctly there is a plugin that allows you to switch between different map folders (with each folder limitedto less than 999 maps), but that is not easy to use - andgenerally considered pointless.

I know of absolutely no game that needs 10000 maps - not even AAA-Company games use more than a few hundred maps per game.
(and that means every game, not just RM-Games)
People who start with such plans usually end up with broken wreckages of incomplete games, because it is a lot of work for even a professional game development team of several dozen people to fill and playtest even a few hundred maps.

 

[bgillisp]

Andar's right. Even FF7 has less than 999 maps. Why would you need more than 999?

To put it in perspective more, I'm on map 292 in my project now, and the game can be completely played from start to finish. The only reason more maps are being added is I'm breaking off some scenes to their own map, and I'm mapping the last couple side areas I put off as they were optional. I'd be surprised if I end up with more than 350 in the end.

 

[XGuarden]

Andar's right. Even FF7 has less than 999 maps. Why would you need more than 999?

To put it in perspective more, I'm on map 292 in my project now, and the game can be completely played from start to finish. The only reason more maps are being added is I'm breaking off some scenes to their own map, and I'm mapping the last couple side areas I put off as they were optional. I'd be surprised if I end up with more than 350 in the end.

I need more map because the kind of game i made...
I do a game with a lot of level like lolo adventure and bikle cubicle.
So each map are pretty small ans was a puzzle to solve, with puzzle game, its easy to get a lot of map.

I thinked to put many puzzle on same map but unfortunatly, that will didt work because I will be limited by the 999 event by map limit.

Let say a map is 12 by 12 and coutain around 77 element event each.
I will probably able to make more then one by map if I change some of my teleportation logic of my game, but I will still be soon blocked by these limit.

Its really the puzzle that will raise up that much the number of map.

 

[bgillisp]

Even the game you wish to make like isn't 999 maps. Look REALLY closely at the game, count the maps and how things are done, and I bet you will see they did it with < 100 maps even. In fact, the only puzzle game I've heard of with more than 100 maps is Lemmings, and it hit 120 (both Lemmings 1 and Lemmings 2 had exactly 120 stages).

I'd suggest focusing on how to event better, as what you said can be gotten around by better eventing. More maps is just a sloppy solution to the problem. Plus, you really aren't going to put an event on every tile, and even if you did, 12 x 12 = 144, which is well below the event limit. The number of elements makes no difference, as you handle that by good event writing.

 

[XGuarden]

Even the game you wish to make like isn't 999 maps. Look REALLY closely at the game, count the maps and how things are done, and I bet you will see they did it with < 100 maps even. In fact, the only puzzle game I've heard of with more than 100 maps is Lemmings, and it hit 120 (both Lemmings 1 and Lemmings 2 had exactly 120 stages).

I'd suggest focusing on how to event better, as what you said can be gotten around by better eventing. More maps is just a sloppy solution to the problem. Plus, you really aren't going to put an event on every tile, and even if you did, 12 x 12 = 144, which is well below the event limit. The number of elements makes no difference, as you handle that by good event writing.

I already manade to create 700+ puzzle and that didt include all map.

yes they have eventing on almost all time for these kind of puzzle. i calculate 50% of tiles. \That make that I can put together maybe 4-8 puzzle by tmap.

I was thinking that maybe i cam pay for a pluggin and as all puzzle have same size, that load puzzle from a file called by a plugging...

 

[Andar]

I was thinking that maybe i cam pay for a pluggin and as all puzzle have same size, that load puzzle from a file called by a plugging...

I think you completely misunderstood what plugins can do and what they can't.

Plugin add to the game mechanics, they can't create data. While a plugin may load data from another file, that file needs to be created somewhere else - and if it is to contain map puzzles, then it would be a lot easier to create the maps in the editor, not create them somewhere else to load the data into an engine.

There are no shortcuts in game development - and it will speed up your game development process if you take the time to learn how to do things correctly, as we have suggested in several topics by now.

 

[XGuarden]

I think you completely misunderstood what plugins can do and what they can't.

Plugin add to the game mechanics, they can't create data. While a plugin may load data from another file, that file needs to be created somewhere else - and if it is to contain map puzzles, then it would be a lot easier to create the maps in the editor, not create them somewhere else to load the data into an engine.

There are no shortcuts in game development - and it will speed up your game development process if you take the time to learn how to do things correctly, as we have suggested in several topics by now.

I understand but I seen some pluggin creating data. For exemple, a pluggin upgrade projet from VX ACE to MV.
So my idea is to create the map on mv, the pluggin then while running export it somewhere. And then with script call, i call call this map that was somewhere else. Its the best way i find for get arround with the number of map limitation.

I understand its hard to believe that i need that much map, but as my game is maintly foccused on doing level one after other, that number increase really fast.

 

[Andar]

you're wrong, that plugin only converts data that has been entered in Ace - it does not create it.
And as I said above, there is already a plugin for map folders that is easier than the idea of having a plugin export maps to elsewhere

 

[Zeriab]

The 999 map limit is an editor specific limitation. Your game can perfectly fine have many more maps than that.
As the editor does not support more than 999 maps, working with more does become tedious.
Why 999 maps? My first thought was laziness, but probably it's more a question of the devs not reflecting about the number of maps. The treelike structure can perfectly fine support many more maps. 9999 maps would have been a better number, and one where they don’t have to think up new logic for managing the maps.

Whenever someone mentions the 999 editor map limit you always get these religious answers about how you will never need more than that. Often, we do see people who make too many maps not completing their projects. More maps = more work. There is a smell to it, so to say. So, while the replies are based upon some wisdom, remember their religious nature as well. Think about them critically, but don't take their dismissive nature too much into account.

Personally, my guess is that they have set 1 map file = 1 map. You can perfectly fine have 50 maps that the players perceive as 4. The number of MapXXX.json files is an implementation detail. What the player perceives as the amount of map does not have to be the number of map files used.

When evaluating your game plan remember that having more maps is possible. Due to shortcomings of the editor working with more than 999 maps does incur a dev cost. I.e. time is spent switching between which map subset is shown in the editor. If possible, I recommend having one master game project, and multiple projects focused on one chunk of maps, preferably so you have as few transfers between each chunk as possible. This way you can spend more time developing within one project.

Of course, pivoting your project in a direction which likely will end up using at most 999 map is also a possibility.

*hugs*
- Zeriab

 

[BrandedTales]

I can see how you might use a lot of maps if you are making a puzzle game with lots of tiny maps.

Could you put multiple maps on a single map file?

For example, let's say the standard puzzle room is 9x9. Could you make a map that is 51x51 (or 57x57 to give a little breathing room) to get 25 maps onto the same map file? Then you could use a plugin to limit visibility to the other maps outside of your specific room.

 

[bgillisp]

@BrandedTales : Not true. Go back to all the puzzle games you can think of and count the maps. They are well below 999. In fact, I can't think of any that cross 199 even.

For fun, I went and counted the number of maps in Lolo Adventures 3 (as the OP often says they want to make a game like that). 113 maps. That's it. You can count for yourself here: https://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/587075-adventures-of-lolo-3/faqs/9731

 

[Zeriab]

The original zelda for the NES. Say you implemented each map section as a map single and used new maps for the second quest, then you would end up with 800~900 maps.

Say now that we instead we instead implement each dungeon and the overworld map as two maps, one overground and one under. With new maps for the second quest that would make us use 40 maps.

Common for both cases is that the internal representation does not matter for the player.

 

[XGuarden]

I understand your point. I will think about it. But curently my game include many level like a cavern. PLayer can dig and go to the under map. Putting many map in once will make thing complicated for handle this event. Its right that lolo adventure 3 didt have that much map, but as I planning to create a lot more map, its can be a long term concern. As i said im already with 700+ map. I know many projet that have that much map never end, but that will not be my case. I didt pay programmer for stop my projet lol. Anywau, thanks for your suggestion.

 

[BrandedTales]

@bgillisp Fair point, but I'm not sure I'm 100% sold.

This doesn't directly address this post, but I do want to take a stab at defending the concept of large map counts rather than simply letting the answer to the request be: "Why the crap would you make that many maps?" I'm not familiar with the game in question this is being compared to, but I will address another game that involves some puzzles.

Let's take Legend of Zelda, which is an action/puzzle RPG (not really an RPG, but in the loosest definition you could call it one... Certainly you could build it with RM).
The overworld had 19x8 maps, so ~150 maps there. Each map (just a quick count) was 16x10 tiles.
There were 9 dungeons, each with two sets of maps (for 1st and 2nd quest). Each dungeon appeared to have around 18 maps (some more, and I didn't see any less, but we'll average at 18). That gives us 324 maps + 152 = 476 maps.

The game is not terribly complex, and while it may be tedious to make 476 maps, with RPG-maker it doesn't have to be years of work to make it, especially if you have a lot of time to do it. The maps are fairly simple.

Let's say this game has smaller maps (9x9), but twice as many, because the puzzles are being emphasized over combat, and we are wandering through these dungeons. That could easily get us to the 800+ range. While that still isn't greater than 999, it's pretty close.

Is it ambitious? Maybe. Probably. Could the maps be combined onto the same map sheet? Also probably. But I don't think it's unrealistic to assume there are a large number of maps.

 

[bgillisp]

@BrandedTales : True, but considering the OP wants to make a game like Lolo Adventures, I think a Zelda comparison is invalid here. But I see what you mean there to a degree. You'd still never do all the Zelda dungeons as one map per tile, just because the issues with making a map that small in RM (unless you used a really low resolution too).

@XGuarden : Have you tried the map script that lets you go over 1000 maps? It should work, though you have to design all the maps separately. There is NO way to make the editor let you have more than 1000 maps on the project, so you'll have to cheat the system. As in, one project per set of 1000 maps. However, you'll have to organize things into 1000 map sets, so you know how to break it into separate projects for the sake of drawing the maps.

On another note, something we need to consider as well since we are talking about size is how long do you want players to play your game anyways? There's a reason Lolo Adventures stopped at 113 or so maps. There's a reason Zelda isn't any longer. This is because, the developers want the game to be one you have a shot at finishing someday. How many people would have completed Zelda if it had been 4x as big and had 5x as many dungeons? Or if Lolo Adventures had 3x as many rooms? Or if Lemmings had 1000 levels instead of 120? Remember, puzzle games are quick once you know what to do, but until you do, you'll be on that map for hours (I think I spent one day each on many a Lemmings level). So it is a good idea to keep that in mind too, else your game will easily be one that is just one of many aborted games by the players due to players losing interest because the game overstayed its welcome.

If you wish to see an example of a game overstaying it's welcome as it was way too long, look up the CPRG Addict's blog about Fate, where the game so overstayed it's welcome that he wrapped it up by saying "I want those last 250 hours of my life back."

 

[Emz0]

Hem, I already use 1600 maps in my RM2K3 project. So, if I can't handle more than 999 maps... I can't remake it on MV. I'm disapointed, cause I already began to do it, so I NEED to use more than 999 maps.

 

[slimmmeiske2]

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