Lian16

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That's strange, I just made a 40x40 map and it works fine. I'm just using the stock demo, by the way.

Yes, with the previous version it works fine, but with the latest one it crashes
 

NotFlamingo

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Does anyone find a way to add something on the wall, for example, a painting? I can do it permanently by adding painting or any other picture on wall texture. However it is not a solution because I need to have an option for the player to remove it. Since the event graphics are aligned horizontally in the center of the tile, I can not add any picture on the wall by using event. Does anyone find another way how to do it?


Masked, please have some winter holidays and help us! :D
 
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NotFlamingo

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Another big question  - is it possible to show animations outside battle? If yes, then how? (show animations command does nothing or freezes if set to wait for completion).
 

erikmidnatt

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One more questions: how to set event sprite to be horizontally aligned not on center but on the corner of the tile. Can you... make it? With such update it would be possible to create decent dungeon crawlers. So, pls help me! ^^

I wish that was possible, I don't think it is without big changes.


I was able to make bigger maps myself. Did you fill it in a very intricate way maybe? My test room wasn't super complicated. 

Another big question  - is it possible to show animations outside battle? If yes, then how? (show animations command does nothing or freezes if set to wait for completion).

Yes i got animations to work, but either you need the basic event image size or need to redo the math in the script for full animation.


You can use a simple 3 slide animation without changing the math in the script, Ive gotten that to work but its effectively useless for my project. So I didn't document how I got it to work.

However it is not a solution because I need to have an option for the player to remove it. 

How often are you using this gimmick? If only once, i'd duplicate the map if possible and send them to the new map. Crude but we have to use what we have.


Another option which may not be ideal, for this use case is to put the painting at the end of a corridor. Then depending on your art skill, you can make the event look as if its on the wall, maybe. Then you could change the event to pick a different character in the sheet and it will be updated. That is how i am doing my treasure chests right now. While its limiting, it prevents ppl from seeing they rotate funny in 3d space. users only see it from one angle, never know any better.

chest.jpg
 
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NotFlamingo

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I was able to make bigger maps myself. Did you fill it in a very intricate way maybe? My test room wasn't super complicated. 



It was just simple filling with texture size of 400x400px.
 

erikmidnatt

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@piksalhI updated my post with some other info, may not be helpful.


But I wonder what you mean by "simple filling with texture size of 400x400px".


Can you explain a bit, step by step to make sure we are talking about the same thing. Not sure what texture size has to do with the map in our case. 256x256 is the largest room we can make, so I guess you are not talking about room sizes. Which was what I thought you meant initially.


I tried making a 256x256 room, i dont recommend it ^_^ not sure it would ever load. (it didnt for me). For this type of game, inside of RPGMaker, its way too much to ask. Also, would be boring or tedious to play. 


So i tested a 32x32 with no walls, material error. a 32x32 that is completely inclosed with a single tile of wall around the edges works fine... so some testing around this may be needed. Right now my maps are actually smaller than that, a room bigger than 32x32 can be a bit overwhelming and I think its easy enough to just use more than one map and tie them together with transfers and such. Thanks for bringing it to my attention though, I'll keep it in mind.


I was able to get a 60x60 to work and a simple zig zag path from one corner to the other to work, but I had to use the empty space for the unused area. So yeah there isn't a map size limit technically, but a limit to how many tiles you can use in a single map.
 
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NotFlamingo

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Yes i got animations to work, but either you need the basic event image size or need to redo the math in the script for full animation.



What do you mean by redo the math? I cant use vanilla animations and my event image size is 400x400 px.

How often are you using this gimmick? If only once, i'd duplicate the map if possible and send them to the new map. Crude but we have to use what we have.



I need to use it quite often. For example, a button near the door to open it. Or an item that is hard to notice to pick up from wall. I can't make new map with changed wall tiles for every event, because some other important events will not work properly then. 

Another option which may not be ideal, for this use case is to put the painting at the end of a corridor. Then depending on your art skill, you can make the event look as if its on the wall, maybe. Then you could change the event to pick a different character in the sheet and it will be updated. That is how i am doing my treasure


chests right now. While its limiting, it prevents ppl from seeing they rotate funny in 3d space. users only see it from one angle, never know any better.



Im already using it when situation is at the end of corridor, but in a different way. In that case I create character picture from wall texture and adding an item on it, then since it's an event, I can change event character picture that is the same wall texture but without an item. However it's impossible in my maps to set all these events only at the endings of a corridors.

Can you explain a bit, step by step to make sure we are talking about the same thing. Not sure what texture size has to do with the map in our case. 256x256 is the largest room we can make, so I guess you are not talking about room sizes. Which was what I thought you meant initially.



I use picture of 400x400 px size for a floor tile. If I fill al the map with such floor I get an error if map is bigger than 30x30 tiles. I can create a bigger map and fill a rectangle with floors that is less than 30x30 tiles and it will work. Somehow more than 30x30 (900) tiles filled gives me an error.
 

erikmidnatt

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What do you mean by redo the math?

well you don't want to use the default character sheet and have 400x400 events. that would make the sheet over 6000 pixels in size. You really want to stay below 4096 IMO. Most systems can use those fine, I know a lot of intel graphic cards can support 8192 textures now, but it makes me cringe to think of having the image so big really.


Because of this, I think you would want to use the smaller character sheet, that is just a single character per event. That would keep the image at 1600 pixels in size. 


The script does not respect single sheets, so the math would have to be redone.  I can't recall if I tried using a super huge 6000 pixel image or not, just seems wrong. Sure it would work on my computers, not sure it would work on everyone elses.


The script only steps through a sprite sheet as if its the default one, so I opened this a while back





And yes, I think 900 is the limit of tiles you can get away with. But just use multiple rooms and smart transitions and its not an issue.


The actual size of your textures shouldn't be an issue. 


For some stuff you just need to get creative. You can't change the textures on walls in the rooms. So design around that. If someone pushes a button and should open a door, either push them through it, or give them an updated message. If something like a button is in the texture, but is no longer usable, change the event to tell them "can't use this anymore".  


For example, if there is an axe laying on the ground, don't bake it into the texture. Instead have like a grove or crack or something noticeable like a lever in the texture. Let the player interact with that, tell them it pushed some stones out of the way and behind it you found an axe. That way no need to change the texture. And if they try to use it again, tell them, nothing else to see here ^_^. 
 
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Doktor_Q

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Holy CRAP I'd thought about how it'd be possible to make something like this, but I never thought anyone would have one already working. Discovering this is probably the best present I've gotten this birthday.


Anyone know how well this plays with HUD / window modifications that always show? Any risk of things popping out of the z layer and covering up menus or dialog?
 

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Anyone know how well this plays with HUD / window modifications that always show? Any risk of things popping out of the z layer and covering up menus or dialog?

some hud mods work, some dont. ive only tried a few, all from same author. for some reason its hit or miss. 
 

Doktor_Q

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Do you use Hudell's Orange HUD? Does that one work, usually? 


Also, I've been tweaking bits of the plugin, and have a number of improvements basically done: 


-Use page up and page down to sidestep without turning 


-Specify the height (in cubes) of a map via map notetag, for high ceilings or high walled areas


-Support for alternate sprite resolutions, as well as $bigmonster and other single-character spritesheets*.


-Add sunlight to the map instead of just player light, with separately adjustable light color. Good for outdoor labyrinths.


-WIP: Support for a skybox to work similar to a non-scrolling parallax background. Will either be map or tilesets dependent. 


* All sprites must have square frames, and it cannot read frame size from the image dimensions, you must specify it in the plugin parameters. You can, at least, set different resolutions for normal and $big sheets, but they all render the same size on the map. 


Once I get the document cleaned up a bit, I can try to post them- what's a good way to post a while file? There's enough revisions I don't think change instructions will be practical.
 

NotFlamingo

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You can use a simple 3 slide animation without changing the math in the script, Ive gotten that to work but its effectively useless for my project. So I didn't document how I got it to work.



No matter how I try, event command "show animation" refuses to work (does nothing or freezes if set wait for completion), even with custom animation from 3 slides. Can You be more specific how You did that? Right now I'm using show picture commands, but events became super long. For example simple vanilla shot animation is an event of 21 showing and moving pictures and since I need it a lot, I'm afraid that it could ad lag. Ability to use show animation command would save time and effort. Can You explain in more details how You did it? 

well you don't want to use the default character sheet and have 400x400 events. that would make the sheet over 6000 pixels in size. You really want to stay below 4096 IMO. Most systems can use those fine, I know a lot of intel graphic cards can support 8192 textures now, but it makes me cringe to think of having the image so big really.


Because of this, I think you would want to use the smaller character sheet, that is just a single character per event. That would keep the image at 1600 pixels in size. 



I'm using single character sheet images for events and still having lots of lag on Macbook Pro. I tried to reduce character size to 200 and it works much better. I'm still having permanent performance decrease after battles and when returning from menu. Do You know why it happens like that? My map has 200 events, but not a single parralel event, more than half of them are without graphics and not moving. Im not using extra plugins, except Orange HUD and Multiple choices.

Do you use Hudell's Orange HUD? Does that one work, usually? 



I use Orange HUD to show player HP and it works.

Also, I've been tweaking bits of the plugin, and have a number of improvements basically done: 


Once I get the document cleaned up a bit, I can try to post them- what's a good way to post a while file? There's enough revisions I don't think change instructions will be practical.



OMG please post it asap! Your tweaks sounds super awesome, I can't wait to try! What do You mean to post a while file? You can post there. Or use wetransfer for project and paste a link.
 

Doktor_Q

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A whole file, sorry, was on a mobile browser. I have various changes sprinkled throughout, so I was going to put up a new version of a whole file. So thanks to you reminding me of the attachment function here it is! Keep a backup of your current version of the plugin in case this breaks something, I'd say, and if you run into any errors, take a screenshot. Also, press F8 to make the debug console appear, and screenshot that, too.


This has side-to-side movement, custom resolution for spritesheets, support for $big sprite sheets, the option to add sunlight, and per-map room height and light colors. I also fixed the setViewDistance plugin command*, which only changed the light radius but not the actual render distance, and adjusted how it computes relative angles to stop sprites from seeming to suddenly rotate when you turned. Skyboxes aren't implemented, I'll need some time to figure out how they work.


*changes to viewDistance aren't actually saved, so it resets to the plugin parameter value any time you restart the game completely. I'm considering ways to deal with that, but for now just be aware.

View attachment MBS_FPLE.js
 

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This has side-to-side movement,



Can' test that :D  My macbook has no pageup/down keys. Is it possible to set for custom keys?

custom resolution for spritesheets, support for $big sprite sheets,



Works pretty nice! Although i'm still confused how to properly set doors event. Event graphics always faces player. Is it possible to set that event graphics will be on fixed direction (will not rotate when player turns left/right)?

the option to add sunlight,



Excellent! It works without problem.

and per-map room height and light colors.



Height option only works on maps without regions for ceiling. Is that as it should be?

I also fixed the setViewDistance plugin command*, which only changed the light radius but not the actual render distance, and adjusted how it computes relative angles to stop sprites from seeming to suddenly rotate when you turned.



Could you explain more about that? Is it possible to set that event graphics will not rotate when player turns left/right?


P.S. Thank You for your big work!
 

Doktor_Q

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Is it possible to set for custom keys?



Theoretically, I suppose? But there's not enough keys on the default MV layout. It should be compatible with any keyboard config plugins. If that's not enough I could add a ctrl+left / ctrl+right option, so as not to conflict with dashing.

Could you explain more about that? Is it possible to set that event graphics will not rotate when player turns left/right?



Sprites will always face the player- they're drawn directly onto the screen like stickers. To make one that has a static facing in the world, you'd need to make it part of a mesh- by which I mean, you'd still have to use the tileset instead of an event. The closest thing you could do would be to make a new 'door' spritesheet that has up/down/left/right, where 'down' is the player facing the door, and left/right are views of the door from the side, or at a very narrow angle? But it would still work pretty awkwardly, sorry.


Normally, it computes which frame of the sprite- the "character-facing-left/right/up/down" to use for the sprite based on the relative direction between player and event. If you turned, you'd notice the event seen to change facing right before it went off-camera- now, it keeps the same facing until it's well off camera, unless you've got an FoV of 180 degrees or something. If you use a spritesheet with a ! in the name, it ignores relative direction entirely, and assumes it looks the same from all sides so you can use direction for state changes.


On this note, there's not a good way to update what sprite an event is using at play time either- not without refreshing the map. Try not to rely too much on animation or dynamic maps in general, with this plugin. It has to build a whole 3D scene, and does so mostly when you load the map. Updating things... I might see if there's a nice shortcut, but I suspect trying to update the map at run time could cause performance issues, with how we do it.

Height option only works on maps without regions for ceiling. Is that as it should be?



Can you give any more details on this? For example, <roomHeight: 2> should make your walls two blocks tall, regardless of whether you've put down a ceiling or not. Are you using the exact file I provided, or did you add any other code modifications? The code posted earlier in the thread would definitely change how things work, and might potentially break it.
 

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Theoretically, I suppose? But there's not enough keys on the default MV layout. It should be compatible with any keyboard config plugins. If that's not enough I could add a ctrl+left / ctrl+right option, so as not to conflict with dashing.



If You could add ctrl function, It would be awesome, thank You!

Sprites will always face the player- they're drawn directly onto the screen like stickers. To make one that has a static facing in the world, you'd need to make it part of a mesh- by which I mean, you'd still have to use the tileset instead of an event.



I'm using tiles for objects on walls like buttons, paintings etc. The problem is that it's not possible to change tile texture on the go. Most of the times I need ability to change tile texture after player pressed the button, removed the painting etc. If texture changing of one specific tile through an event would be possible, I could think of something about the doors too. Another option would be hm... moving tiles? :D  imagine if tile moves right/left/up/down (doors opened), then back (doors closed).

The closest thing you could do would be to make a new 'door' spritesheet that has up/down/left/right, where 'down' is the player facing the door, and left/right are views of the door from the side, or at a very narrow angle? But it would still work pretty awkwardly, sorry.



I guess it's the only option. And what about using all the 12 images in event character image for an event? It's not about rotating part, but about door opening part. I really need to have more frames for opening doors, but is it possible? Right now I can only use turn left/right/up/down, so maximum 3 extra images for opening animation. How can I use more?

Can you give any more details on this? For example, <roomHeight: 2> should make your walls two blocks tall, regardless of whether you've put down a ceiling or not. Are you using the exact file I provided, or did you add any other code modifications? The code posted earlier in the thread would definitely change how things work, and might potentially break it.



roomHeight tag only works on map without setting any region or setting region that is not choosed as ceiling region in plugin parameters. Otherwise I always get an error: "TypeError. Cannot set property 'material' of null". Please see attached screenshot of console (is it possible to copy/paste the text btw?). And i'm only using your plugin without any edits. Map size 30x30, all filled with wall/floor tiles.


Screen Shot 2017-01-12 at 05.14.59.png


P.S. I asked it before but maybe You know how to make event graphics appear not in the middle of tile but in the corner? I mean that event would not be in the center, but in the left, right, up, down corner of tile. Same as tile graphics are showing. 
 
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Doktor_Q

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As to using more than just the three directions for extra frames, it's not very easy. You can use the 'step' frame to get an extra set of transitions, though? Like, use a move route to animate 'left(still) -> left(stand)-> right(still) -> right(stand)" or something.


Making the sprites appear off-center is maybe possible? But they'd still always be "toward the player", not along one of the wall/floor faces like the map tiles. The cubes that compose the map have static textures, the flat sprites used for events support animation frames, and I don't know of any in-between object. At the point of animating your meshes, you might as well just go full 3D and get meshes for everything, but that's beyond my plans.


I'll investigate the region error, that looks awfully weird.


EDIT:


That's a "your map has too many cubes" error, don't think it has anything to with setting other regions. That'd be the "performance issues" I think I mentioned in the help text for the room height parameter- it's literally making extra cubes to build taller walls, so if you put a ton of walls on a large map, you'll hit the maximum limit sooner. Consider breaking it up into multiple maps with loading screens or transition points, if you can?
 
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erikmidnatt

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@Doktor_QThanks much for this! been to busy with work to get around and test it out myself. After my biz trip next week I plan to tinker with it and see how it goes. Much appreciate the effort.
 

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I've been still working on things, but I've been busy at work, and I ran into another set of problems I haven't had time to solve- notably, it looks like the battle transition fix doesn't stay fixed if you use Yanfly core engine, so I might need to take slightly more drastic measures to patch it. Skyboxes prove kind of infuriatingly hard to make work with the render distance, and I'm also looking at more efficient ways to handle variable room height than making move and move cubes.


Some other features I'm looking into adding:

  • Half-height cubes (for counters, low walls, etc), and half-deep holes (if you wanted a river at a lower level than the surrounding ground), indicated by terrain tags, and most likely with the height adjustable as a plug-in parameter.
  • Different top/bottom/side textures for cubes, all in the same file. It's entirely possible, I just have to remember a lot of geometry and matrix math.
  • Ambient lighting controls to supplement sunlight- presently, if you do full sunlight and no player light, ceilings are pitch black. Ambient lighting + sunlight also enables a lot of art and coloring tricks.
  • (maybe, possibly) bump maps support, so a slightly advanced user could make their walls look a bit less flat. I have to look into the technology a bit more.

All around, I'm weighing the merits of trying to port the entire thing up to the latest version of Babylon, since that's what's documented, and it has APIs that could make my life easier. I'm planning to put most of my project through this, so I have some vested interest in enhancing it.
 

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