Mechanics to Random Chest Loots

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First off, If I posted in the wrong section I apologize in advance. I never seem to choose the correct sections. xD

So I was looking for some feedback regarding the mechanics to a system for chests to drop randomized loot (to keep the game interesting). I was told that it deserves a thread and I agree. I need to have every angle thought out for this. So, here are some other things about the game that should be kept in mind as it relates to how the chests function.

  • There is no leveling system in the game. Instead, it uses a Class/Rank system ran by the games guild system.
  • There are 4 categories of rarities for items. Common, Uncommon, Rare, Legendary.
  • Weapons Armors, Accessories, and Items are further divided into the Class/Rank system.
  • There are 4 Types of chests. Weapon, Armor, Accessories, and Items.
  • I was given a question about the Items chest mentioning healing items. There are healing items but healing wont be an issue because the game has an auto regenerate system that heals the player slowly when they are not moving. (Uses an action system).
  • In order to use or obtain stuff that has a higher rank then the player from chests, the class/rank must be unlocked from the guild system.
  • Chest drops are all within one MASSIVE event that calculates what to give to the player based on restrictions and chance.
Chests will pretty much drop an item based on 2 conditions. Condition 1 is the type of chest it is and Condition 2, the highest rank the player is capable of having access to (Chests may be fixed to a certain rank if you are in a dungeon with a fixed rank). So, within the two condition, drops will also depend on how rare the item is as well. Another note that I probably need to make are chests with a class/rank cap. some dungeons will disallow the use of gear if the rank is to high (so that you are not to overpowering if your doing a side quest). So for example, if you walk into a class II dungeon, you are disalow to equip or use Class III or higher equipment and chests will only grant items with a maximum rank of II.

So, what do you think? Any comments, ideas, or revisions you think I should make?
 

bgillisp

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So for example, if you walk into a class II dungeon, you are disalow to equip or use Class III or higher equipment and chests will only grant items with a maximum rank of II.
I've never liked that kind of system. Why should I suddenly forget how to equip something just because I've entered a new dungeon? Also, I think that penalizes leveling up. If someone postpones a side quest and does it 25 hours later and is overpowered, so what? Let them breeze through the side quest for once. Sometimes it is fun to do 9999 damage to a rat for a change.
 

boldpaste2

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I've never liked that kind of system. Why should I suddenly forget how to equip something just because I've entered a new dungeon? Also, I think that penalizes leveling up. If someone postpones a side quest and does it 25 hours later and is overpowered, so what? Let them breeze through the side quest for once. Sometimes it is fun to do 9999 damage to a rat for a change.
The game gives you the opportunity to auto equip items suited to the dungeon (to save you from a hassle). I also ditched the leveling system so you never have to grind levels for it. Also, it would suck to one shot a boss. The game is a Hack "n" Slach type of game but it also requires you to use your party and equipment the best way possible to get through a dungeon. xD
 
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Susan

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In regards to healing :

I can see the cause for concern about healing.

At least one of the old western RPGs utilized heal spots in the dungeons.

Besides items and spells, the old western RPGs handled it by allowing parties to rest in the dungeon to recover (with 'penalties' such as possible ambush by enemies or requirement to use food to rest).

There was also the ability to set a teleportation beacon which allowed players to warp to a town, and back to their previous exploration point.

In regards to randomization :

Regarding randomization according to rank, why not restrict randomization to the area/dungeon as well?

I'm not sure about using a massive event to randomize drops. Are you using, or creating, a script that will help with the randomization?
 

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One idea could be items that give a slightly better % chance to get better items.

The more Items of that kind you wear, the better.

But in order to not become an exploit, the items must get charged first.

Best way is by kills. Thus the player will suffer from lame items during battle.

When the items will get charged though, they will give better chances for a better drop, opening a chest and then discharge again.

You can also have a shop that buys everything, when going out of the dungeon like in Diablo.

You can have EVERY item in game to have a chance to get it.

If you get an awesome but also useless item for you, you can always sell it to buy an equivalent better!

You can also change the shop inventory, according to the cash the player has stored. ;)

That way, chest are never lame, but you always have that sweet agony of "What if I will get a legendary"?

And there are item hunter gamers that will be satisfied too by sets of +% luck (to get better items) !
 

bgillisp

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I dunno, why should you never be able to one shot a boss if you have earned it? I mean, what if you have found a sword of dragon slaying, and the boss is a dragon, but then you are told you can't use it? That might cause some players to rage quit right there. 

You may need to come up with a plot mechanic to explain why they have to equip only those items for that dungeon. Maybe it is due to restrictions from the guild? They are under a geas, and it restricts them to only Tier III in this dungeon? Anyone who equips Tier IV shall die on the spot. Something like that might at least make it make sense. Otherwise, it just feels arbitrary.

Edit: On the randomization itself. I read an article recently that said that Diablo set it up so that most early drops were healing item, then it toned them back as you got more advanced at the game. This was to encourage you to explore more and such. Here's the link, you might like the part on loot drops, as it pertains to your game: http://www.significant-bits.com/night-with-devil
 
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boldpaste2

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There was also the ability to set a teleportation beacon which allowed players to warp to a town, and back to their previous exploration point.

The game does how town warp stones and "Go to beginning of dungeon" warp stones if the player finds themselves in to tough spots (restricted in some areas though)

Regarding randomization according to rank, why not restrict randomization to the area/dungeon as well?

Because the game is also kind of open world as well. There are field areas where the use of all items are permitted and dungeons that restrict uses. Its like how an MMO caps a players level to a dungeon so they are not way to overpowered. Also, if areas do restrict rank, it also restricts what gets dropped as well.

I'm not sure about using a massive event to randomize drops. Are you using, or creating, a script that will help with the randomization?

It pretty much done through a common event. I can write some horrifically complex events xD
 

I dunno, why should you never be able to one shot a boss if you have earned it? I mean, what if you have found a sword of dragon slaying, and the boss is a dragon, but then you are told you can't use it? That might cause some players to rage quit right there. 

There are so many items in the game that shouldn't be an issue. So lets say there is a sword of dragon slaying, there is a dragon slaying sword in every single rank. One with higher stats then the others of course.

 
 

One idea could be items that give a slightly better % chance to get better items.

The more Items of that kind you wear, the better.

But in order to not become an exploit, the items must get charged first.

Best way is by kills. Thus the player will suffer from lame items during battle.

When the items will get charged though, they will give better chances for a better drop, opening a chest and then discharge again.

I thought about that and I might be able to do it :p

You can also have a shop that buys everything, when going out of the dungeon like in Diablo.

You can have EVERY item in game to have a chance to get it.

If you get an awesome but also useless item for you, you can always sell it to buy an equivalent better!

Also shops buy everything. Shops only sell common stuff though. If you want gear of higher rarities, you have to buy it from the guild with your "Guild Points" which is given by killing monster, completing contracts, etc. GP is also used to expand a character skill tree and increase Class

You can also change the shop inventory, according to the cash the player has stored.  ;)

I need to commission a script for that xD

That way, chest are never lame, but you always have that sweet agony of "What if I will get a legendary"?

And there are item hunter gamers that will be satisfied too by sets of +% luck (to get better items) !

Legendaries can only be obtained through a quest given by the guild master that relates to that item. *cough*  like Pandora's box

 
 
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I've never liked that kind of system. Why should I suddenly forget how to equip something just because I've entered a new dungeon? Also, I think that penalizes leveling up. If someone postpones a side quest and does it 25 hours later and is overpowered, so what? Let them breeze through the side quest for once. Sometimes it is fun to do 9999 damage to a rat for a change.
Actually I agree with  @bgillisp 

Keep items equipable but... make them obsolete in front of others.

Sure you can wear  a +10 STR sword why not?

But you already have a +50 STR so... why???

The player will SELL it that way! ;)

And without feeling that you stole his freedom. 
 

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I don't like the healing part.  Why not heal instantly out of combat instead of waiting a minute or so each time.

Also, why limit people in obsolete dungeons?

If I want to rek face, why can't I? It's just a way to punishes the player in my eyes.

I like the random part, it is a really good idea.
 

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I don't like the healing part.  Why not heal instantly out of combat instead of waiting a minute or so each time.
Nobody likes waiting. So the better you fight the less you wait.

It isn't that bad in my opinion.

But yes, many people might dislike it.
 

bgillisp

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 Its like how an MMO caps a players level to a dungeon so they are not way to overpowered. Also, if areas do restrict rank, it also restricts what
MMOs are played together, so the cap makes sense, so that someone doesn't dominate the game. However, a cap in single player games has, to my knowledge, *never* gone over well with the players.

Though I do think you can make it work, it just may take some explaining and creative thinking to pull it off and not tick off the player. But, maybe that should be another topic so let's drop it for now and go back to random loots. Back to the intended topic...
 

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The quests that involves a capped dungeon are usually optional. If your following the main quest line only, you will always be the highest class you can be. I had to implement this system because I can't modify the stats on enemy to scale with the characters. as for healing items, you can use items that increase healing rates and instantly heals which can be obtained by chests, monster drops, and the stores (which is affordable).
 

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Nobody likes waiting. So the better you fight the less you wait.

It isn't that bad in my opinion.

But yes, many people might dislike it.

The game would have to be really really well balanced on skill then. Else everyone will get annoyed by the system or it will be too easy.

Edit: @boldpaste2 it is possible to do so with hime's scripts (even if the actor never levels).
 
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You can also change the shop inventory, according to the cash the player has stored.   ;)

I need to commission a script for that xD

 
Seriously?

Not at all!!!

You have to do some work though.

Common Event:

Conditional Branch: Gold > 1.000.000

Sell everything

else

Conditional branch: Gold > 500.000

Sell less

...

......

.............

You got the picture. :p
 
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boldpaste2

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I don't like the healing part.  Why not heal instantly out of combat instead of waiting a minute or so each time.

Also, why limit people in obsolete dungeons?

If I want to rek face, why can't I? It's just a way to punishes the player in my eyes.

I like the random part, it is a really good idea.
I guess I can give an option to disable the dungeon limits in the config, but to compromise I can lock out the achievement if the dungeon has any. The game also has an achievement system that behaves like steams systems and will persist even if you start a new game. It is also set up so that third party services "like steam achievements" can use it as well.

 

Seriously?

Not at all!!!

You have to do some work though.

Common Event:

Conditional Branch: Gold > 1.000.000

Sell everything

else

Conditional branch: Gold > 500.000

Sell less

...

......

.............

You got the picture.  :p

 
Yea, but there are just SOOOOO many items xD
 
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Susan

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A few more things that popped up in my mind :

- Considering that you are dropping the level system, if you are planning to implement a Class/Rank system with item randomization that drops items according to the player's highest rank, wouldn't it make sense that the player would not be going off to higher ranking (more difficult) dungeons in the first place? Well, unless they're the masochist kind of players.

- How do you intend to rank the item rarities? Will the ranking be specific to the item itself, or does it also apply to the rarity you mentioned.

- I would assume that when you say the items are divided into Class/Rank system, you mean something like the Diablo series. Also, does this mean that the players can only use equipment that are equal or lower to their rank (if by some reason their rank has decreased).

- Again, with the healing issue, maybe the game can have healing spots a short while before the boss fight? In my experience, the boss fights in hack and slash games are pretty tough themselves even if the player is at full health. What more when the player isn't able to level up.

- Perhaps you can implement a difficulty setting for your project, since there is cause for concern about healing? At least four people have voiced it out.

- Since you are planning to create an open world, another thing that I could suggest is to have certain special locked chests in the dungeons. Keys can either be earned from quests, purchased from the guild/shops (when the player is of a high enough level), or looted after defeating higher ranking enemies (rare chance in itself).
 

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Yea, but there are just SOOOOO many items xD
It has work to be done. But once done it is over easily.

I think that there would be some scripts to do that for free though. :/

Not sure, but it wouldn't hurt to search for them.

But that is a topic that deserves a different thread I guess anyway.

- Perhaps you can implement a difficulty setting for your project, since there is cause for concern about healing? At least four people have voiced it out.

- Since you are planning to create an open world, another thing that I could suggest is to have certain special locked chests in the dungeons. Keys can either be earned from quests, purchased from the guild/shops (when the player is of a high enough level), or looted after defeating higher ranking enemies (rare chance in itself).
Two platinum suggestions. I have no words!
 

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I would also agree that a difficulty setting would be fabulous. You could even do like the Ys series and have your achievements be based on the difficulty you select and play on.

As for shops, maybe you could have the shops increase in goods as you go up in rank? In other words, the shop has this while you are rank 1, then some next rank items when you are rank 2, etc. You could have the shops be even a rank or two behind dungeon rewards if you are concerned about people just buying everything.
 

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A few more things that popped up in my mind :

- Considering that you are dropping the level system, if you are planning to implement a Class/Rank system with item randomization that drops items according to the player's highest rank, wouldn't it make sense that the player would not be going off to higher ranking (more difficult) dungeons in the first place? Well, unless they're the masochist kind of players.

If you walk into a rank III dungeon if you are rank I, not only will it be hard, but the chests will give you rank II items for managing to get that far in. You also must be rank II in the guild to use the item you found.

- How do you intend to rank the item rarities? Will the ranking be specific to the item itself, or does it also apply to the rarity you mentioned.

Ranks is split by how powerful the stats of the weapons are. rarities are determine if it has any special attributes (such as elemental damage, special ability, and charge ability).

- I would assume that when you say the items are divided into Class/Rank system, you mean something like the Diablo series. Also, does this mean that the players can only use equipment that are equal or lower to their rank (if by some reason their rank has decreased).

Their rank will never decrease. they can use equipment that is lower or is the same as their rank  ** I never played Diablo xD

- Again, with the healing issue, maybe the game can have healing spots a short while before the boss fight? In my experience, the boss fights in hack and slash games are pretty tough themselves even if the player is at full health. What more when the player isn't able to level up.

Yea, I can do that. The game also allows you to swap to another party member with a single button press. (idle party members are technically holding still so they are regenerating while the active member fights unless they are KO).

- Perhaps you can implement a difficulty setting for your project, since there is cause for concern about healing? At least four people have voiced it out.

Trust me, healing wont be an issue. Currently, I am having an issue for where there is to much healing going on but I like the difficulty idea. xD

- Since you are planning to create an open world, another thing that I could suggest is to have certain special locked chests in the dungeons. Keys can either be earned from quests, purchased from the guild/shops (when the player is of a high enough level), or looted after defeating higher ranking enemies (rare chance in itself).

OHHH! Good idea!
 
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My Goodness!

Here comes a bomb!

You finish the game with a certain type of character (class let's say).

You unlock a new legendary Item that can be used by anyone, despite the level or class and boosts you up like nothing else.

And there is a whole set!

To get the ULTIMATE items you have to finish the game with all different classes! LOL!

Grinder's paradise! :p
 

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