Mechanics you dislike

[Arthran]

I don't like it when enemies' levels automatically scale with the player's. I mean, I'm fine with enemies getting stronger as you progress through the game, but I don't want the enemies right outside the starting town to continually get stronger as your character levels up.

I like to feel like my character's strength is actually progressing as I gain levels. If I have to attack a certain type of enemy 5 times before it dies, and then I go and gain 10 levels and then come back and fight that same type of enemy... I don't like to see it still take 5 attacks for that enemy to die. It makes leveling feel pointless.

 

[Tiamat-86]

I don't like it when enemies' levels automatically scale with the player's. I mean, I'm fine with enemies getting stronger as you progress through the game, but I don't want the enemies right outside the starting town to continually get stronger as your character levels up.

I like to feel like my character's strength is actually progressing as I gain levels. If I have to attack a certain type of enemy 5 times before it dies, and then I go and gain 10 levels and then come back and fight that same type of enemy... I don't like to see it still take 5 attacks for that enemy to die. It makes leveling feel pointless.

theres different versions of enemy levels. this is global/party scaling, no good way to balance this.
either you can over level and screw yourself cus enemy get stronger then you,
or no point in levels cus only progression is getting better equipment,
or no point to equipment/enemy level cus they still get weaker just at a slower rate.

map/region based scaling is what most MMOs use. return to lv1-3 area and they are still lv3 capped
just makes it so only need a reskin enemy ID when they learn new tricks/new AI/change class.

 

[IvanForever]

element didnt make it to 14. it was replaced by ascension/descension. still sub-par rules

Is there any other change in FF14 that you liked? I felt like the Elemental Rule was mostly either useless or tend to always (by luck) favor the Opponent, meaning that the opponent tends have the right cards to receive the Elemental boost while I don't XD

I don't like it when enemies' levels automatically scale with the player's. I mean, I'm fine with enemies getting stronger as you progress through the game, but I don't want the enemies right outside the starting town to continually get stronger as your character levels up.

I like to feel like my character's strength is actually progressing as I gain levels. If I have to attack a certain type of enemy 5 times before it dies, and then I go and gain 10 levels and then come back and fight that same type of enemy... I don't like to see it still take 5 attacks for that enemy to die. It makes leveling feel pointless.

Same here. Though today I considered the possibility of doing scaling if it could somehow be pulled off in a smart way... perhaps such that the starting area of the game, the monsters only have a certain percentage and/or formula of stats boost in relation to your level, while in say the middle areas of the story, the monsters there have a different one relation to the players level. Also, having the player have a higher increase of stat boost percentage at Level 50 than Level 30. This kind of scaling might work for your case.

 

[Tiamat-86]

Is there any other change in FF14 that you liked? I felt like the Elemental Rule was mostly either useless or tend to always (by luck) favor the Opponent, meaning that the opponent tends have the right cards to receive the Elemental boost while I don't XD

sudden death (game cannot end in a draw, board resets but flipped cards dont)
fallen ace (a 1 placed after can beat an A) (stacks the reverse rule making 1 vulnerable to A)

you dont lose cards, dont necessarily win them either its RNG, each npc has a possibly reward pool of cards they could give you when they feel like it, but get MGP every win (gold saucer currency)

looks like got a new rule since i last played,
Draft (make a hand out of these random choices)
(players cards are not used) that part sounds interesting

didnt like how NPC are cheaters.
each card has a rank 1-5star. best deck you could make is 4 3star cards and 1 5star.
NPC doesnt have that restriction

 

[IvanForever]

sudden death (game cannot end in a draw, board resets but flipped cards dont)
fallen ace (a 1 placed after can beat an A) (stacks the reverse rule making 1 vulnerable to A)

I kept thinking Sudden Death is already in FF8...?

you dont lose cards, dont necessarily win them either its RNG, each npc has a possibly reward pool of cards they could give you when they feel like it, but get MGP every win (gold saucer currency)

I see. Not exactly sure I am fond of this. Like in FF8, sometimes winning the cards felt like I earned it. Sometimes the Difference trade rule and even the Direct trade rule in FF8 feels like I earned it because I went to "capture" the card, especially after one of those thrilling combos.

looks like got a new rule since i last played,
Draft (make a hand out of these random choices)
(players cards are not used) that part sounds interesting

Interesting. Would like to hear your thoughts if you try it.

 

[Tiamat-86]

I see. Not exactly sure I am fond of this. Like in FF8, sometimes winning the cards felt like I earned it. Sometimes the Difference trade rule and even the Direct trade rule in FF8 feels like I earned it because I went to "capture" the card, especially after one of those thrilling combos.

think of it in more semi-RL way.
you can play with friends and they give you money if you win. (your friends are those kinda 'high and mighty' idiots and bribing you to kick their a** cus they think they'll never lose).
they might feel like giving you a card they have extras of. (your idiot friends are also spoiled rich kids)
can spend the money on buying booster packs or save up alot and buy a new bike.

unlike FF8 with the card mod skill ff14 card game is only for people that enjoy it. 14s goal is to keep you playing/paying as long as possible so they dont want you to have guaranteed card drops and be done your collection in 2 days.
theres also other ways to earn MGP which is still an entirely optional thing. ALOT of vanity things you can get from it though.
thats what most of FF14 endgame is. either vanity farming,
or temporary min-maxing (because every new content patch makes 95% of old gear... "old")

---

on that note. OP topic,
everything being just vertical progression, ie. item levels (there is only 1 BiS build for each class)
your variations of classes is entirely based on database class IDs.

horizontal progress gives you options for different builds.
'fighter' with equipment setup A turns into more of a paladin, setup B makes more like dark knight,
setup C turns him into a berserker, mix half of setup A and B to make red mage.

not entirely a dealbreaker mechanic. most games dont have class customization through equipped gear/skills. especially true for older games.
but definitely prefer games with customization, or at least ability to change the order you unlock thing.
also adds to replay value so less likely to only play through it once and never touch it or talk about it again.

 

[rpgLord69]

I dislike almost all battle systems, unless it's Ys or LoH: Trails of Cold Steel. I think every company who makes turned based jrpg battles should check Trails of Cold Steel out. And even there part of the fun came from giving all the best orbments to one character and making an overpowered Laura and whacking enemies with the fast-mode button pressed.

 

[ericv00]

I'm... not sure what to say to you. Nowhere in my post have I mentioned any Achievement that is hard. A lot of Achievements are simply "if you showed up for this, you will have it" (completing optional tasks) and "if you played the main story to the end, you will have it" (more like "milestones" or "how much of the game you completed"). Also, a New Game+ playthrough is usually much easier than the first playthrough...

I must have misread your post. I thought your list was part of the thread topic of mechanics we don't like, pointless achievements being the mechanic.

I still stand by my post. Like what you like, I just see no reason to brag about an achievement that takes literally no effort.

"Defeat Ultima/Omega Weapon" (FF8) is a good Achievement and what I call a "real Achievement" because there's strategy, thinking, and skill of sorts involved. Dying multiple times might not really frustrate me at all, and could be exciting and full of thrill, especially the moment the Achievement is unlocked.

Exactly. This is a real achievement. This is what they all should be. The other kind aren't real achievements, which is why I don't like them.

 

[IvanForever]

I thought your list was part of the thread topic of mechanics we don't like, pointless achievements being the mechanic.

I'm confused by this... I was talking about mechanics I don't like, about Achievements that are so-called "hard" because it involves "keep on doing this again and again" (I can do it, but it takes up a lot of time and the process is tedious) or if not, then at least time wasting (beating a game again in New Game+ is usually much easier than the first playthrough, but would I want to possibly spend another 15+ or 40+ hours?). Or "time restricting" like the "Complete the game in less than X hours." For convenience, here was what I said:

I also want to add in-game and/or Steam Achievements such as:
- Spend more than X hours on the game
- Complete the game in less than X hours
- Have X fights (especially when it takes around 1000 battles to reach the end of the game, but the Achievement states 3000 fights or 5000 fights)
- Beat the game again in New Game+ (I already beat the game once and spent 20+ or 80+ hours, but I have to beat it again just to get that Achievement unlocked. I would rather that I play New Game+ because I loved the game so much I wanted another round, and not for the sake of Achievement completion.)
- Defeat X enemies and/or have Y character defeat X enemies
- Collect all of the items/skills/etc. (When it involves some kind of RNG or luck thing, and/or the process involves grinding or going back and forth on maps...)

I started to resort to Cheat Engine and using other people's save files for some of these.... and I still have not unlocked all of these yet, after maybe 20+ hours.

... in which you replied with:

Yup. Achievements are supposed to be hard. Something you go out of your way to accomplish with exceptional skills. I wish people could except that you don't need to complete them. They exist for bragging rights, and if the accomplishment is not worth bragging about, it's not worth achieving.

Personally, I think they should always involve optional content, not mainline progression. They should always involve skill, not tedium.

And I thought it was very awkward or something...

But yes, I agree with the "Defeat Omega Weapon" kind of Achievements being how Achievements "should be." Tons of Achievements are either the above so-called "hard" cases or simply just "milestones" showing how far you are in a game (like I can go to a Steam profile and check their Achievements of a mutual game, to possibly figure out how far a person has played a game in comparison to my playthrough ).

 

[Tiamat-86]

@IvanForever @ericv00 i can think of 1 perfect example here.
defeat diablo while at critical health.
defeat lv70 diablo on hardcore
1 of them is a challenge and worthy of an achievement (hardcore)

while the other is just "so you want me to stand here while diablo is on his last legs and let him ream on me for 2minutes before i deal the last hit to kill him?"
this isnt a skill challenge, its not a milestone, its not a completionist or perfectionist goal
its just an annoying filler achievement for trophy whores

 

[IvanForever]

@Tiamat-86 Yes, love what you said. Thanks for bringing it up. Also, your post reminded me of something else: if there is a "Defeat the last boss in Hard/Mania/etc. mode" Achievement that is actually a real Achievement, then I'd better NOT have to start the game from the beginning to change the difficulty level of my playthrough. It sucks to have to go through the entire game again in Hard mode just for this... For this case, I'd better be able to change the difficulty level anywhere on the field instead of only in the beginning of the game.

"Beat the game in Hard/Mania/etc. mode" is also a tedious Achievement, unless you happen to have your game set to Hard mode on your very first playthrough without knowing about the Achievement, for example. (And let's hope such modes is something you don't have to unlock after playing through Normal difficulty. I know some games where it is something that shows up only after you've beaten the game once.)

 

[Tiamat-86]

hardcore and hardmode 2 different things. i was refering to the "you die your character gets deleted" hardcore achievement

 

[IvanForever]

Hmm... I'll edit my post just in case. I meant to say Hard as the "basic" of those kind of "higher difficulty" Achievements, which includes Mania, Hardcore, etc. Which is why I said "your post reminded me of something else" as I was talking about something else.

 

[Frostorm]

I just noticed something else I dislike... Level caps being gated behind ludicrous resource grinding or $ microtransactions. I've recently been playing Final Fantasy: War of the Visions (for "research" purposes) and they cap units to certain level thresholds depending on that unit's "rank". The rank can only be increased by farming mats throughout the game. So a 1star unit might have a level cap of 30, but if you wanna get it to 35, you're going to need to farm stuff. Once you've unlocked that next "star/rank" for that unit, you'll still have to grind the actual EXP to level the unit up. The mats required get exponentially more intense as you rank up a unit. It gets to the point where going from lv99 -> lv100 is just about as tedious as lv1 -> lv99 combined! I get it though, mobile games are literally tedium incarnate. -.-

 

[Frostorm]

I also dislike when skill/talent trees have stuff like "Increase x by 1%". And they expect you to spend like 5 points to fill out that node on the tree for a grand total of +5% of w/e the bonus was. I prefer talents to have interesting mechanics/effects, not be a point sink. But, I don't mind it if it's something boring like +Hit% or +Crit% as long as each point spent is CHONKY. Like +5% or +10% per point; something the player can actually notice. Whereas, nobody can tell the difference between 1% of anything.

 

[ericv00]

I just noticed something else I dislike... Level caps being gated behind ludicrous resource grinding or $ microtransactions. I've recently been playing Final Fantasy: War of the Visions (for "research" purposes) and they cap units to certain level thresholds depending on that unit's "rank". The rank can only be increased by farming mats throughout the game. So a 1star unit might have a level cap of 30, but if you wanna get it to 35, you're going to need to farm stuff. Once you've unlocked that next "star/rank" for that unit, you'll still have to grind the actual EXP to level the unit up. The mats required get exponentially more intense as you rank up a unit. It gets to the point where going from lv99 -> lv100 is just about as tedious as lv1 -> lv99 combined! I get it though, mobile games are literally tedium incarnate. -.-

That's a thing?

Ew.

Games aren't supposed to be chores, yikes!

 

[GmOcean]

I also dislike when skill/talent trees have stuff like "Increase x by 1%". And they expect you to spend like 5 points to fill out that node on the tree for a grand total of +5% of w/e the bonus was. I prefer talents to have interesting mechanics/effects, not be a point sink. But, I don't mind it if it's something boring like +Hit% or +Crit% as long as each point spent is CHONKY. Like +5% or +10% per point; something the player can actually notice. Whereas, nobody can tell the difference between 1% of anything.

I think the exception to that is if it's a stat that you normally don't have access to. For instance, like 1% LifeSteal/Leech. A grand total of 5% is a lot of life steal if it's 5% of damage dealt, so gaining +1% at a time is good. Another exception would in my opinion Dodge. 1% may not be much, nor is 5%, but it's a stat that is usually hidden anyways, so getting the opportunity to increase it even a smidge is handy. Granted this assumes that your dodge rate can gain a total of +10-+15% from other items/increases.

 

[IvanForever]

I want to add something I've been experiencing in various games recently: the Poisoned state issue, where it is possible to die on the field from it, and you can only use items to cure your state... especially when already running low on money, and you keep on being poisoned battle after battle. I reached the end of the game and still no status healing skills. When the Poisoned state can only be cured with items (and when it costs quite some money to do full healing and in one city only, and I end up trying to Level Up from Battle for the whole game just to get free full healing), when it is actually possible to lock yourself out from progressing further if you had saved on the field from the state and the Game Over screen only allows you to load save files...

Or when your third party member is actually dead, then a cut scene occurs where you are suddenly only the third party member, could walk around the field with it, until a required battle occurs but you've been dead all this time... instantly leading to Game Over when the battle starts.

 

[Tiamat-86]

when the hint to solving a puzzle, ISNT EVEN IN THE GAME!!

this sidequest in pokemon LA im doing just reminded me of this BS. startropics and metal gear way back in the day had this issue blocking main progression. nowadays its "mostly" only used for little cameos and completely inconsequential things. pokemon LS did the stupid thing and has it tied to a sidequest completion.

 

[den399]

Crafting gives me anxiety about not knowing where the ingredients would drop from/can be found. Some games give you beastiaries or item books which tells you where you can find them, and that certainly helps, but just not my cup of tea. The only few exception for me would be something like Summon Night (GBA), or Bloodstained. In Summon Night there was really only one large dungeon and you can basically find everything just by playing through the story. And in Bloodstained, hunting for 100% completion is somewhat of the secondary gameplay loop, and the entire game was done so well, I didn’t mind it.

Another thing I’ve recently realized I’m not a fan of is having a final boss area disable your ability to save or use an escape rope equivalent. While it does increase the tension, it does so in a really bad way imo. It’s especially bad if you then have a lengthy cutscene before the boss battle. And God forbid you TPK on the boss =P Also related to this, is when you have an arbitrary choice at the end that affects whether you get the good, bad, or best ending. That feeling when you mess up the choice is just made all the more worse when you know you’ll have to go through the entire thing again.

Also some points mentioned by others earlier:

1. Gacha mechanics. I can see the appeal, and admittedly I’ve enjoyed this before in the past. But in hindsight, it does feel a lot like gambling to me -_-‘ But to each their own =)

2. Money uses late game. Not really something which fixed the issue of money becoming irrelevant late game, but imo a fun way to deal with it: Tales of Xillia 2 had a really good plot point of the MC needing to pay off an exorbitant debt left by a medical bill. Although the developers balanced it well to the point you never really felt short on money, it did add enjoyment to the game since you could just dump whatever excess to chip away at the debt. And it even unlocks a comedy ending =)