More Variable Event Page Conditions

[Archeia]

We are planning on implementing RM2k3s variable conditions with more than >=. As of now, we need some example scenarios where this feature is needed. I normally have something for this but my mind is drawing a blank because of how much work I have to do. Please provide us some examples that will make it hard to create without this feature so we can have it approved!


We need it to be more detailed and an example code if possible. Because otherwise the examples would just be scoffed off as, you can do that without doing it in event page conditions. We should also remember that MV now has 20 event page limit. So this feature is a lot more important ever IMHO.

 

[EternalShadow]

- A segment in the game where you are on a battlefield and have to win at minimum X battles to drive the enemies away, but fighting more is optional for a better score. (Otherwise, you're basically running this at "equal to" which just runs the event where enemies run away)


- X people spoken to. If you have spoken to more than or equal to 5 [spies] and revealed some data to them, when you speak to your commander again, he is ashamed because you have spoken to too many enemies and revealed valuable info. (Because you're incompetent or something lol)


- Points, scoring, etc all would use the >=. Theoretically if you were using unlocks based on scoring, and the score can drop, you could self-switch to remove that unlock if the score is less than X, but this is an extra event page and more possible chances for bugs, especially as you'd need to re-enable it at a later point if the score increases again.


- Error/bug preventing, making sure an event still runs even if a variable is greater than the stated X in the event that the X to gain is available elsewhere.


- Also generally good for open-world games with freedom and triggerable events upon completing "at least X" of something.

 

[Crimson Dragon Inc.]

adding 2-3 variables togeather to find another variable to determine the out come of an event that has multible endings/rewards that depend on the total number of the final variable

 

[Archeia]

Hey guys just to be specific, we need it to be more detailed and an example code if possible. Because otherwise the examples would just be scoffed off as, you can do that without doing it in event page conditions. We should also remember that MV now has 20 event page limit. So this feature is a lot more important ever IMHO.

 

[nio kasgami]

if the variable not equal a certain range or a certain number of the variable it's show something OR 


it's  not showing the event if the variable is equaling this.


useful when you want example to do two events where one  if is active the other is inactive.

 

[Victor Sant]

Generally speaking there is a lot of things that can be done with this and can't be done with current system. But, this also envolves the uses of several pages.


For example, if I want to have a page to show only if the variable is equal a value, this would require 2 or 3 pages, wich could be done with a single page with the = condition.


Basically this option would reduce a lot the use of dummy pages just to reach some specific conditions. But I can't come with scenarios that it would make it needed.

 

[Archeia]

Generally speaking there is a lot of things that can be done with this and can't be done with current system. But, this also envolves the uses of several pages.


For example, if I want to have a page to show only if the variable is equal a value, this would require 2 or 3 pages, wich could be done with a single page with the = condition.


Basically this option would reduce a lot the use of dummy pages just to reach some specific conditions. But I can't come with scenarios that it would make it needed.

This is also what I said but they're asking what kind of event would require such a thing

 

[Victor Sant]

One example would be if you want the player to gain an item if a variable is equal X, the same NPC could give Up to 10 items. but variable must be equal the value.


Variable === 5 >>> Item 1


Variable === 10 >>> Item 2


Variable === 15 >>> Item 3


and on...


If the variable is past the value, the item is lost.


Currently you would need at last 2 pages for each item.The page for the item with var === X, and a page with a condition var === X + 1.


This basically double the number of pages, and would be a hinder for more complex events with the 20 pages limit.

 

[zeigfried_mcbacon]

Hypothetical situation: Say I wanted to make a dungeon with random occurring elements, say a rock in a spot sometimes or a treasure chest in another run of said dungeon. As it stands now, you'd have to use variables AND switches to make such a thing possible (to my knowledge), where as using just a variable that can have its condition adjusted frees up any switches, and from my perspective would make setting such a thing up much cleaner.

 

[TheGamedawg]

I would love to be able to compare two variables.  If "var001 < var002" or "var001 != var002" or the like.  It gets pretty annoying constantly creating a third variable just to do the math.

 

[Archeia]

I would love to be able to compare two variables.  If "var001 < var002" or "var001 != var002" or the like.  It gets pretty annoying constantly creating a third variable just to do the math.

Right now this is not the topic for that. We need to get this approved first before we can go somewhere.

Hypothetical situation: Say I wanted to make a dungeon with random occurring elements, say a rock in a spot sometimes or a treasure chest in another run of said dungeon. As it stands now, you'd have to use variables AND switches to make such a thing possible (to my knowledge), where as using just a variable that can have its condition adjusted frees up any switches, and from my perspective would make setting such a thing up much cleaner.

Can you provide a sample event page and code and why you can't do this with just parallel process?

One example would be if you want the player to gain an item if a variable is equal X, the same NPC could give Up to 10 items. but variable must be equal the value.


Variable === 5 >>> Item 1


Variable === 10 >>> Item 2


Variable === 15 >>> Item 3


and on...


If the variable is past the value, the item is lost.


Currently you would need at last 2 pages for each item.The page for the item with var === X, and a page with a condition var === X + 1.


This basically double the number of pages, and would be a hinder for more complex events with the 20 pages limit.

Sorry, what do you mean by this? From what I know of, events would always fire off the last page of an event as soon as its condition is met.

 

[Victor Sant]

Sorry, what do you mean by this? From what I know of, events would always fire off the last page of an event as soon as its condition is met.

Exactly that


Lets say you want the event to trigger at variable === 5 and only at variable === 5. (variable > 5 and variable < 5 won't trigger the event)


You will need:


Page 1 - condition variable >= 5
Page 2 - condition variable >= 6 (to avoid the event to start if the variable is >= 6)


now if you want a special event that triggers when the variable is:


=== 5


=== 10


=== 15


=== 20


=== 25


This is your marvelous event:


Page 1 - condition variable >= 5
Page 2 - condition variable >= 6 (to avoid the event to start if the variable is >= 6)


Page 3 - condition variable >= 10
Page 4 - condition variable >= 11 (to avoid the event to start if the variable is >= 10)


Page 5 - condition variable >= 15
Page 6 - condition variable >= 16 (to avoid the event to start if the variable is >= 15)


Page 7 - condition variable >= 20
Page 8 - condition variable >= 21 (to avoid the event to start if the variable is >= 21)


Page 7 - condition variable >= 25
Page 8 - condition variable >= 26 (to avoid the event to start if the variable is >= 26)


Basically, without the other conditions most events that aren't >= will need 2 pages to acheive the same result that could be done with one. This is bad when we have a low limit of 20 pages.

 

[Archeia]

@Victor Sant


OK so we basically gave the same example to Ojima-san haha.


So what we need to prove now is what kind of game dev situation would need this kind of eventing //rmwforums.s3.amazonaws.com/emoticons/default_crys.gif

 

[Victor Sant]

OK so we basically gave the same example to Ojima-san haha.


So what we need to prove now is what kind of game dev situation would need this kind of eventing //rmwforums.s3.amazonaws.com/emoticons/default_crys.gif

A mystery shop that opens at specific times of the day (the time is controlled by variables), and at each time, it sells different items.


This could be done with switches on the parallel process that control the time, but this would require one switch for each time of day. and would make the parallel process more complex. And we all know that we should avoid overloading parallel process because of lag.

 

[Archeia]

@Victor Sant Perfect! Thank you <3


Please keep it coming. We need to keep giving them examples.

 

[EternalShadow]

Well, here are some very specific examples then:


- A button that is invisible unless the answer given to a sum (which is provided as a variable) is equal to the correct answer (Currently impossible unless using an AR/PP with set move route)


- A power-up that appears only if you have defeated exactly 5 slimes (impossible in event pages, can only be done with a PP/self-to-A if condition met)


- A maid that can be interacted with and will clean your house if the house cleanliness is 5 or less (Currently requires a second page to make her vanish if 5+)


Generally, you'd be reducing event page usages and possible bugs as well as having less events to edit for certain conditions if X is met etc, as you'd only need to edit in one area per event.

 

[starcrescendo]

It is VERY funny (to me) that you said how your mind was drawing a blank so you could not clearly think of the use scenario. I've had the exact same issue before! I know I've encountered this before and been horribly confused and after thinking about it for a while realizing that what I was trying to do was not possible going to work and just giving up resolving to think on it again later or ask in the forums for help. But OF COURSE I never did, and I can't think of it right now. 


I know one troublesome scenario came in when I first tried way back on my XP game to make a variable called "Story" and then I made a notepad listing what all the variables would correlate to. Ex: 0 is the intro, 1 is the first town, 2 is the fire dungeon, 3 is the water temple, etc etc. Once I started implementing it in the game, somewhere, the logic broke down and I realized I would instead have to do everything some other way or as switches for some reason because the <= variable did not cut it. But I don't remember what that was.


So, this post is probably utterly useless, but I hope someone else is smart enough to think of what I was trying to express and perhaps it may be of some help spurring your thought process, Archeia!


(And of course if I can think of it I will be right on posting it this time.)

 

[Archeia]

@starcrescendo exactly my problem! I had this exact same issue when I was doing Efflorescence and I can't remember what it was anymore since I had to work around it in a different dumb way and I don't remember what it was. 

Well, here are some very specific examples then:


- A button that is invisible unless the answer given to a sum (which is provided as a variable) is equal to the correct answer (Currently impossible unless using an AR/PP with set move route)


- A power-up that appears only if you have defeated exactly 5 slimes (impossible in event pages, can only be done with a PP/self-to-A if condition met)


- A maid that can be interacted with and will clean your house if the house cleanliness is 5 or less (Currently requires a second page to make her vanish if 5+)


Generally, you'd be reducing event page usages and possible bugs as well as having less events to edit for certain conditions if X is met etc, as you'd only need to edit in one area per event.

I'm trying to think of how to pitch these in Ojima-san right now. Mostly in a way that wouldn't make him state that why not just do it like this.

 

[Victor Sant]

Basically, if an event requires just one extra page it wouldn't be a problem (this is probably what they thought when they did it like this),


So we must present realistic game-dev scenarios where the number of event pages would jump to high numbers due to the lack of the options.

 

[zeigfried_mcbacon]

Can you provide a sample event page and code and why you can't do this with just parallel process?


@Archeia


Parallel processes doesnt really play into this, unless someone could prove me wrong. Even then though, there is still a conditions for the event to even appear, and the only way to make it stable and add only what a particular level variant would have .


I have several pics outlining how it all works in 2k3 and trying to do 


Eventing for item in room (2k3): 





example room (2k3): 





example room entered at a different point: 





Eventing for entering example room: 





eventing for item using switches: 





eventing for item using variable: 





common event needed to make this work: 





Example room (MV)