More Variable Event Page Conditions

[Archeia]

Basically, if an event requires just one extra page it wouldn't be a problem (this is probably what they thought when they did it like this),


So we must present realistic game-dev scenarios where the number of event pages would jump to high numbers due to the lack of the options.

Unfortunately, alternatives have been give to reject the example:

• You can use conditional branch in the event contents.
  
• It could also be done by an autorun event in the shop map. And you can convert from the time variable into the shop type variable. That many switches is not needed.
  

While I don't necessarily agree, we need a stronger example.

 

[Crimson Dragon Inc.]

well i currently have a scenerio.......dont know if it counts


in my game i have 15 statues of swordsmen, they ask a question with three differant answers, each answer will grant a new skill for the main hero, and add to one of three variables....lets say V1, V2, and V3..... after the question is answered you can talk to the statue again to gain access to a secret dungeon called the sword labyrinth, after the 15th labyrinth, i want a special reward based on the out come of V3 - V2 + V1 = V4 and then set the event to if V4 = -11 and below one out come, if its equal to -10 - 10 then you get another outcome and if = to 11+ then another event takes place.....


with variable conditions.... this could be done easier....

 

[Archeia]

well i currently have a scenerio.......dont know if it counts


in my game i have 15 statues of swordsmen, they ask a question with three differant answers, each answer will grant a new skill for the main hero, and add to one of three variables....lets say V1, V2, and V3..... after the question is answered you can talk to the statue again to gain access to a secret dungeon called the sword labyrinth, after the 15th labyrinth, i want a special reward based on the out come of V3 - V2 + V1 = V4 and then set the event to if V4 = -11 and below one out come, if its equal to -10 - 10 then you get another outcome and if = to 11+ then another event takes place.....


with variable conditions.... this could be done easier....

Can you try putting this in event code format?

 

[Victor Sant]

I really don't get his posture.


Why refuse allowing to make things easier for the devs?


Just because "it can be done another way" it doesn't means that "the other ways" are good. 


I think it will be hard to convince him of approving this. Because if his reasoning will be always "you can do it other way" then there will be always another way, because the maker offer several ways of doing the same thing.

 

[Crimson Dragon Inc.]

well i can give some screen caps.....


also i am only able to use variable condition of >= and i have the new update for MV...... T_T why cant i change the variable.......

this sets the variable


and here are the 3 pages of the event

first event page due to needing the lowest numbers as the conditions....

now they will probaly just say it should work as this easily..... but having more variable conditions would allow this to be done easier.....and more accurately

 

[Dullstar]

While I can't think of a situation where this is NEEDED off the top of my head, I can think of several where it cuts down on the amount of blank event pages needed, but it seems everyone else has beaten me to the punch.  Personally, I don't like making dummy pages when I can avoid it, as events are cleaner to look through when there are fewer pages.


If it would help, I could make my next project (that I probably won't finish like all my other projects ) in 2K3 and see what I end up using the other options for.

 

[Victor Sant]

Personally, I don't like making dummy pages when I can avoid it, as events are cleaner to look through when there are fewer pages.

Me too, it's a very poor design choice. I would rather use a plugin for that than use unnecessary blank pages.


But it seems as longer there are other options available, lord Gandalf shall not let this pass.

 

[SC Fúria]

It is not exactly what you've asked but, I really need a while conditional. The if is very powerful but it doesn't satisfy me at all. 


So I would recommend a while condition with variables.

 

[EternalShadow]

Well, I really can't answer the question in a way that would satisfy him then as he's just gonna say to do it the very cumbersome and possibly buggy way as Victor points out :/

 

[Andar]

Perhaps we should start designing a scenario where that limitation becomes critical instead of just guessing where it can be used. Let's see the facts.


1) If the variable condition is fixed to >=, then any other variable (< or = or so) condition needs an additional event page to be functional.


In the past that was less of a problem due to higher number of event pages.


2) We need to find an example where using event page conditions is vital and a conditional branch can't be used.


That was the reason the mystery shop example was shot down after all


So what can be changed by page change that can't be easily done with different effects?


A) Image change:


There are only two ways to change an events image, the event page and the change image inside the move route. But the move route version can only change full sprites, it can neither use specific frames from object sprites nor change to a tile picture. Those two options are only possible by event page image.


So how about either a mystery gate (showing different tiles about its current destination) or a changing tile depending on for example a time system?


//rmwforums.s3.amazonaws.com/emoticons/default_shades.gif autonomous movement:


Changing NPC movement by set move route command basically blocks the action trigger needed for conversations.


So if you want an NPC to have different movements depending on story situation AND being able to interact with the event, you'll need to store the parts on different pages.


Using a variable as situation code when to behave in which way is the easiest way to control that - but with only >= that basically only works for a linear story progression and even then there are problems with the page limit now


Someone else can make these scenarios into real events if neccessary, I don't have time for that now.

 

[Jesse - PVGames]

So, my game Sector 12, would have greatly benefited from this.


I have many instances where I needed to compare the total power output (a variable) to a large number of numerous input variables (smaller sub-systems that drew power) and I ended up having to make an event that just had like a billion nested conditional branches specifically because this feature did not exist. These different sub-systems and the power output itself would go into different states depending if power input was higher, lower, or at threshold, so it was a huge pain in the ass to event, and would have been much simpler had this been around.


I don't really understand the mentality though that such a feature needs justification to be approved. If it helps even a portion of the customer base and it is something many people would like to have, why not do it without making people jump through hoops to justify it? Just make the customers happy.


Edit: I took a bunch of screenshots of some of the code from just one event from Sector 12:

Spoiler

Being able to break this down into separate events/event pages with the control variables being input right there would have made this whole process much easier for me and it would have been waaaay less messy. Granted, I was ultimately able to make it all work by just making a billion conditional branches in the event editor...but it is ugly, difficult to debug, and just overall a huge pain in the ass, not to mention its potential for lag.

 

[Archeia]

Thank you @Jesse - PVGames and @Andar. The examples might just nail it. I know it is frustrating but we have to keep fighting to allow 'unconventional' features as this to be implemented.

 

[Blue001]

I'm curious... if one page has Greater than 1, and another has Less that 3, and the variable is 2. Which page gets used as the currently active? The one with the lower number?

 

[Andar]

@Blue001 Since that feature does not exist yet, we can't really tell - but usually the conditions are checked in the order of page priority, so you'll have to order the pages in the sequence you want them to be checked.

 

[Jomarcenter]

Edit: Kinda notice I forgot to consider how page priority works and made a mistake in my part so I deleted the whole thing about how MV check each part of a page in a programmer perspective.


But anyways after looking thru there is some smart but poor programming design on the event editor if you put them all in perspective that I would like to point out.


I also notice there is some thing you can't do that you can do in type based programming that the event page can't do.


I will going to revise it after I work it all over again *sigh*...

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

Resurrecting this from the dead.

 

[bgillisp]

@BubbleMatrix82 : And how is that relevant to this topic, which is about event pages for event commands? These don't exist in battle. Please stay on topic on threads. Or did you mean to post this in another thread?

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

It was posted to the wrong thread - I forget where so I deleted the extra stuff. But whatever, resurrection away! Let's discuss this old idea!

EDIT:
To stay on topic though, I would like to see more self switches than just A-D. Give me the whole alphabet.

I'd also like to see more process types too, like character facing direction or on button touch (but not touching the event, just in the same room as it), or sequential order like giving it a number which happens after the first numbers complete their pages.

Lastly I'd like to see more conditional triggers to turn pages. Maybe even make it limitless with a plus sign to add more. I've had an event that had 5 conditions that had to be met, I could put 2 or 3 in the left bar but I had to do nesting conditional branches to do the other 3 or 2. It was a little obnoxious. Have the page conditions nest it for us!

 

[Dungeonmind]

Spoiler: Screenshot

So lets say you have a variable based clock (army time) and you want to have that event/npc only appear from a certain time to a certain time. The way it is now we cannot do this without complex Eventing to be effective in real-time. We would need to have a parallel process be on permanently to check if that npc is supposed to be there every time the clock time changes to a new hour and then turn a switch on or off for the event to disappear should the time change to when the npc should be elsewhere in the game. This would be so so tedious in comparison to what this feature could offer us and not to mention it would add to the count of parallel processes in our games and performance will suffer. I hope that helps.

 

[jetboost]

Well i found my way over here cause i was searching for a function like this cause i got a bit stuck allow me to explain:

I have a parallel common event that triggers when switch start time is ON this switch will be turned ON after the tutorial.
This common event will every 300 frames (5secs) update $minute +1 and at 60 $minute= 0 $hour +1 and in such fashion onward create time in my game all the way to $years.

Now on a map i have an "department of order" lets say a place of command for guards.
And now what i want to do:
I want to create a work roster for the guards (and later on for many other NPC's) and so i want guard1 at $hour = 8 AND $minute = 1 walk downwards from a ladder towards a stairway down and thus reappear in the next map at 08:02 and go to bed his nightshift is over.
At the same time guard2 walks from that stairway to the door outside(and stand on the map outside) to stand guard there.
And the above in reverse at 21:01.

At my time of writing i see that Yanfly has created an plugin "Event timer control" but as far as i could see in his video of the plugin it will not allow me to check if time is X time exactly.

Reasons why i want events to happen at different minutes is
1. To not have every event on the map go do something at the exact same time.
2. As a result of 1 because of all the different things happening on the map players will stick around longer to uncover all of the happenings there. In my opinion.

Another sollution what i thought of was setting a switch on at 08:01 and turn it of at 08:02 in my common event for time however this means 2 switches allready for one location and there are many more to come wouldn't that mean i can better set a switch on for every minute and off the next?
I don't think it would like that? will it be able to properly run if i would do this?

And even though i have it working on the outside map this is due the fact i coupled them to the "day" switch which is turned on at $hour = 8 and the "night" switch which is turned on at $hour = 21.

And if i could make the event appear at $hour = X And $minute = Y i could make it work.

If you guys know how i might be able to solve this i would gladly hear your advice.
Edit: Grammar fixes.
Edit2: I think i have found a way to do this without creating lag i will create another variable "$hoursinminutes" example: 09:00 = 540 minutes i will leave testing it for after i wake up
Edit3:
To finish this story i have tested it, it works, you need 7 event pages to have an NPC (dis)appear at a certain time and you would need to add another 3~4(estimated guess for now)event pages if you would want the NPC to do another thing at another time.

And for now i have also come to the conclusion that for an time/schedule kind of system you won't need the extras for event conditioning as far as i can envision.
But i did need to create the extra step to have my time event calculate "hoursinminutes" extra parallel thus likely impacting performance slightly.

So what i want say is that i would like the option to check multiple variables for event page conditions so there will be lesser code needed to actually run within an parallel event.
I also would like to see an "!=" operator (i know a little programming PHP, MYSQL and Javascript) i kinda miss it.