Multiple Actions Per Turn Per Actor?

[Pootscooter]

Do you guys allow players (and enemies as a result) to act more than once per turn? Perhaps at the cost of some resource. Games like Divinity series (or Baldur's Gate 3) do this and I feel it helps combat from being a slog. Thoughts?

 

[bgillisp]

Occasionally. I have a state called Clone that grants you a 2nd action, but you have to learn the skill first and take a turn to cast it. I also have one character that has a skill called Phase they can use to skip this turn and go 2x next turn in return.

For enemies you got to be careful as if you are not enemies can do things like cast Fireball 2x which can be a game over for the player. That takes more work to structure.

 

[Frostorm]

I recently decided to employ "action points" to replace "movement points". Action Points (AP) would be the resource the player has to move/act and is determined by their Speed stat, so faster characters can do more per turn. AP would also be spent to "move" around at 1 AP per tile. I made all skills, including "normal attack" to cost somewhere between 1-3 AP. So a "normal attack" would cost 1 AP. A typical unit would have like 3-4 AP per turn, so they can move a bit and attack, or if they're already well-positioned, they would have more AP for offensive stuff. A typical "Fireball" spell would cost 2 AP for example. Large AoE or very strong spells/skills would cost 3 AP (e.g Blizzard). It's just another lever to adjust in addition to MP/TP Costs and CDs. So basically like Divinity/BG3 as mentioned.

 

[Cyberhawk]

For me, I use double actions on enemies as a desperation passive for downing them to 25, half and occasionally 75% health. Some bosses have the same passive like that, these tend to be physical attacking bosses that have single target moves and only one multi targeting move.
Had a boss with this mechanic where he would move twice anyway every turn. but he'd gain either a state that had a 15% increase in magic or Attack. but it's set up so that he could never have both increases at the same time.

If an actor gets double action it's typically because they have a skill that gives them double action state at the expense of offense or defensive stats.
Last time I did this, the main char (weak to Ice btw) entered a state where their Speed, and M.Defense increased by 30%, gained the ability to move twice, Increased evasion and Counterattack, become weak to wind type attacks and immune to water. At the expense of losing half their attack and Defense.
Another skill did a similar thing.
Move twice, increased all stats by 15% and lowering Luck by 50%. but became weak to Light, and Water. Absorb Dark, and Fire type skills and reflected Ice all while losing 10% of his max HP each turn it's active.
The states gave MC a new skill command exclusive to those states. The 2nd state I described uses HP costs to use it's skills.

 

[Basileus]

I'm debating whether or not to do this in my current project. I like the idea of rewarding the player by extending their turn if they plan properly. Something like the Tales games where your combo is very limited but there are cancels and resets that can make your combo much, much longer if you know the system. I think I can do that kind of thing in turn-based by having regenerating resources and bonus actions.

There's also the Hyperdimension Neptunia games which give each player character an option to either use their turn to do a string of multiple combo attacks or a single action like using a skill. The combo attacks do a lot less damage normally, but they do useful things like lowering the enemy's guard meter (which give them damage reduction until it is depleted) or building their EXE gauge. When the EXE gauge is filled at least one level, the player can end their combo with a finisher attack to make it even better, and if it's filled multiple levels they can spend it to do a Limit Break. I had some fun with this and it made regular attacks useful so I wasn't always just spamming my biggest skill every turn.

I haven't played them yet, but I'm looking into games like Legend of Legaia and Grandia since they have things like combo attacks and bonus aerial attacks too.

 

[TheGameBrewery]

My current game is using an AP system for characters. Each action costs 1 AP (actually MP) and each party member has 3 AP. I've included an experimental grid battle system as well that allows for movement so that is also 1 AP. Like most things, it needs to be integral to the core design. As I'm looking at making semi-tactical RPG, I find it is important to give players at least two moves per turn.

 

[A_Higher_Plane]

How about like that ability "Doublecast" from Final Fantasy X? You can cast 2 spells per turn but only Dark Magic.

 

[TheoAllen]

No, in my current design. Allowing you to act twice is both game-breaking and becomes a slog. Due to the nature of my design, if you act twice, you could boost your damage and trivialize the content. However, I allow the enemy to act twice because, well 1 vs 4 boss battle is both not fair and not varied enough.

If I only allow the boss to act once, I need to make the action meaningful.
If I allow the boss to act twice or thrice, I could use it to randomize their combo or simply use it for the randomized area attack.

 

[Frostorm]

How do you guys feel about "Bonus Actions"? So for various buffs or utility skills. Basically, a player would be able to cast a buff to increase their MAT then follow up w/ a Lightning Bolt or something on the same turn. The Buff skill would be the bonus action, and the Lightning Bolt the main action. All skill costs would need to be paid ofc.

(I got rid of the action point system in my game)

 

[TheoAllen]

I consider it as an "additional effect" rather than a bonus action. You don't input the action twice.

 

[Tiamat-86]

i have setup where its a build your own class game (learn skills then equip few skills from those to use in battle) and some of those skills are instant cast.
so every turn each actor can do 1 instant action + 1 standard action, and haste effect gives a 2nd standard action.
but at the same time MP is a stamina system soft capped at 100 (200 with accessories) and no preserve TP traits until late endgame. so gotta think about resource management.

as for the enemies most have 2 actions per turn while only a few get 1 action.
some of the bigger guys get 3-5 actions. (typical dragon would have 3 actions, claw/bite/tail)
tricky part was making it so they wouldnt try to spam their bigger attacks in a single turn

 

[Frostorm]

I consider it as an "additional effect" rather than a bonus action. You don't input the action twice.

Why do you assume an action isn't inputted twice? They are 2 totally different skills, so you select the buff skill 1st to cast that, then select the dps spell to pewpew.

so every turn each actor can do 1 instant action + 1 standard action, and haste effect gives a 2nd standard action.

Yea that's exactly what I was trying to illustrate, I just called it a "bonus action" instead of an "instant action". They're functionally the same though.

 

[TheoAllen]

Why do you assume an action isn't inputted twice? They are 2 totally different skills, so you select the buff skill 1st to cast that, then select the dps spell to pewpew.

Because I never know the term "bonus action" and the way you described is like "attack but also boosting stat". If you say, free action/instant action for buffing I would not think otherwise. There're example of that, that is done well.

 

[Frostorm]

Because I never know the term "bonus action" and the way you described is like "attack but also boosting stat". If you say, free action/instant action for buffing I would not think otherwise. There're example of that, that is done well.

Ah, I c... "Bonus Action" is a Dungeons & Dragons term, w/ the same meaning as "Instant Action" essentially. Sorry for the confusion, but I guess you can just substitute those 2 terms. It also wouldn't be limited to buffs; I just used that as an example. I would basically make any skill that seems minor or otherwise doesn't seem worth a full action a Bonus/Instant Action.

But regardless of what it's called, do you feel this is a good mechanic in general?

Extra Examples of Bonus Actions:
‣ Taunt - forces all enemies to target you.
‣ Substitute - switch positions with an ally within a 3-tile radius.
‣ High Stance - increases your Strength, Physical Crit, & Weapon Unleash chance by 10% while active.
‣ Stone Skin - increases an ally's Strength (ATK) & Constitution (DEF) for 4 turns.
‣ Water's Wisdom - increases an ally's Intellect (MAT) & Willpower (MDF) for 4 turns.

*note: The user counts as an "ally" as well for those last 2 spells.

Edit: I just feel like the term Instant Action doesn't inform players of its meaning very well, whereas Bonus Action simply means "an action that is a bonus". Compare that w/ "an action that is instant". The word "Action" tells them it is something you do (duh), while the adjective in front describes what kind of action it is. These are just my opinions though, and others obviously may have different experiences.

The term Instant Action also confuses me because...well, aren't actions already instant? At least in most battle systems, w/ only the default not being the case.

 

[Tiamat-86]

free action is also a D&D term.
bonus action only useable after a condition or trait can activate it.
extra attack, cunning action, healing word, house rules: potion usage.
free actions are just always available for anyone.
drop held item, passive perception, whistle.

RM terms for combat mechanic would definitely go with either bonus or instant for its terms.
bonus action could mean action*100% trait (2 standard actions play out in turn order, default engine)
instant action is a little more specific. the second you confirm it, it casts. (plugin required)

 

[Pootscooter]

instant action is a little more specific. the second you confirm it, it casts. (plugin required)

I'm pretty sure almost EVERYONE uses a battle system where the actions are all instant, using a plugin like you mentioned ofc. That makes the term a bit less useful in its inherent description of the word. Besides what we call it, I like the concept of Bonus Actions in general!

 

[Frostorm]

I'm pretty sure almost EVERYONE uses a battle system where the actions are all instant, using a plugin like you mentioned ofc. That makes the term a bit less useful in its inherent description of the word. Besides what we call it, I like the concept of Bonus Actions in general!

Exactly! The term "Instant Action" is pretty meaningless if all actions are instant lol. I use a tactical battle system so that's the situation for me. At least w/ LTBS they're all instant, idk if that's the case w/ SRPG though... (maybe @Dopan can answer?)