MV How to make a faster-paced battle system?

Wavelength

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I want guard to be on the list as well, but I'm still trying to figure out the best way to do that without adding to the aforementioned bloat. Maybe press right on the command list to access it, final fantasy style?
In theory you could easily hotkey anything that doesn't require a second action (like target selection), which would include Guard and Escape as easy hotkeys. Short of that, you could replace "Item" with a command "Misc(ellaneous)" that brings up the second menu with Item, Guard, and Escape, which are commands you'd only use occasionally.

Personally, I'd rather add them onto the command menu and risk the "bloat" of 6 choices there, because (as the choices never change on this command menu) it will very quickly become second-nature to the player, and as long as you keep the most common choices at the top, there won't be too much onerous repeated up/down button pressing involved.

Anyway, I'm currently using Yanfly's ATB plugin and I think it handles the Fight/Formation/Escape menu close to perfectly. In particular, the Fight/Formation/Escape command window is suppressed normally, skipping straight to an actor's command list when their ATB gauge hits 100%. Yet, if you still want to escape or change party members, you can press cancel on any actor's command list to bring it up.
I've seen this, and I hate it. I bet you half the players never figure out that the "back" menu exists (not to mention it causes severe bugs in combination with Yanfly's other plugins, such as the Standard Turn Battle system). It's a really bad way to handle menus in game design; you never want the player to have to figure out a hidden button to press to access a hidden menu to do something normal, and even once the player figures out that it exists, it's unintuitive to start anywhere besides the "top" of the decision tree.

Edit: This next part is meant to be in general, but one thing I found that really helps speed up combat animations is using Yanfly's action sequence system.
Very good point - for MV games, Yanfly's Battle Core helps speed things up some of the really unnecessary "waiting" in battle, and use of the Action Sequences can make it feel even faster!
 

Aome

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Also, it depends on what do you mean by fast-paced. You seem to like to consider a fast-paced battle as the battle that ends quickly, or not confusing about what skill to use. Meanwhile, I interpreted it as the battle that will make both parties suffer a lot of damage in a few turns. If you mean a battle that ends quickly is just as simple as reducing their overall hp.
A very good point, I think we all mean something different by fast-paced. I think I made a slight error calling it that. I think I want battles to be quick but also interesting. So in my case just lowering HP might not be enough, although it's still something I will do.

I'm going the overdrive route. Different attacks and skills fill your TP gauge at different rates. When it hits 100%, a (usually) screen-clearing skill automatically goes off. That way there's still some strategy involved, but I and the player have less to worry about than if it was a typical TP system.
Yeah this is a great way to simplify the system! Makes it a bit more of an action game, but I think that's good for an RPG with less micromanagement. Managing way too many items, skill points, currencies etc. makes many RPG's more engaging but it can drive me crazy.

As for my use of MP / TP, I use MP for magic and TP for skills, so most of the time a character can only use one of those. Having x MP skills and y TP skills on the same character can indeed get potentially messy.
This is also a great point. How many different skills / mechanics do people need before it just becomes way too complicated. I guess it's also very dependent on how "fun" a skill / spell is to use. If they are more interesting then it's also way more engaging for the player. I'm saying this because a lot of RPG's have the same skill mechanics that we've all seen before.

[move]Game Mechanics Design[/move]
Thanks, sorry about that.

I still want to note the importance of having at least a good amount of weak-hp mooks that can be killed in around 1-2 hits. Boss fights should of course be higher hp, but I also really like the idea of strong mooks that feel like minibosses.

Disclaimer: I use visible encounters and the enemy events either stand still and are defeated permanently or wander randomly and respawn on map change (no chasing BS though) so the player has near-complete control over whether or not to engage. This is so that the player can be in the mindset of "I'm ready to engage this fight" rather than "god another !%#@%#ing random encounter asfkajs mash through it!"
This is a great idea! I might have to create troops that are interesting with some very weak enemies, to provide a bit of a rush defeating them while trying to defeat a stronger monster at the same time. Forces you to strategize more as well.
Yeah I'm planning on having visible encounters but haven't started implementing this yet. Makes it a bit more strategic and interesting, also where item use is concerned.

Anyway, I'm currently using Yanfly's ATB plugin and I think it handles the Fight/Formation/Escape menu close to perfectly. In particular, the Fight/Formation/Escape command window is suppressed normally, skipping straight to an actor's command list when their ATB gauge hits 100%. Yet, if you still want to escape or change party members, you can press cancel on any actor's command list to bring it up.

- - -

Edit: This next part is meant to be in general, but one thing I found that really helps speed up combat animations is using Yanfly's action sequence system. While making spells that I want to be usable on either on or all enemies/allies, I got fed up with how it played out, with the animation playing on every single target, slowly, one at a time, so I made my own relatively simple action sequence intended to omit the "wait for animation" parts:
I agree, Yanfly's battle core helps a lot, the standard animations are very long and make everything very slow. So I'm designing quicker and more interesting animations / sequences. But it's A LOT of work!!! Thank you for your great explanation!
 
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Aesica

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I've seen this, and I hate it. I bet you half the players never figure out that the "back" menu exists (not to mention it causes severe bugs in combination with Yanfly's other plugins, such as the Standard Turn Battle system). It's a really bad way to handle menus in game design; you never want the player to have to figure out a hidden button to press to access a hidden menu to do something normal, and even once the player figures out that it exists, it's unintuitive to start anywhere besides the "top" of the decision tree.
That's actually a pretty good point. Since I want party member switching to be an important part of gameplay and it's also done via that menu, I plan on specifically pointing it out to the player so they're aware it exists. But yeah, if the only purpose of that window was to fight or run, I'd just cut it out completely and take the FF4 approach--a hotkey (or hotkeys: L+R on the controller, for example) to initiate escape.
 

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But the pace of the battles is slow because you constantly have to choose between using an MP or a TP skill, and it's not always quickly clear when you have enough MP or TP to use a skill from either category.
As a simple response, this part seems simple enough (but would require coding/plugin); Let something like L/R switch between skill menus. Being able to switch between quickly (instead of, say, Cancel>Down>Accept) lets the player get to the relevant information quicker, especially if all skill in each category can be seen on the menu at once. Another thought is letting there be multiple sections, but maybe at the bottom (so you can just push up to get to it quickly) would be "Actions" and it would open a full screen menu that shows all possible actions the unit can do so you can just see it all at once if you don't know what you want to do, while going to the other sections to get to a specific skill quicker when you do know.

As for the question itself, I think there are four major things to making things "quick" or "fast-paced" (some of this is echoing what others have posted); Aesthetics, Implementation, Skill, and Length

Aesthetics are a matter of keeping the player on edge like things are happening in quick succession even though the battle is turn-based and likely gives them all the time in the world to do what they want. A long animation (Knights of the Round Table or the increasingly absurd destruction of the nearby planets attack in FF7's final boss) can give a sense of epic, but usually you want animation to be punchy and fast, long enough to make out what happens but otherwise as short as possible. I'm playing Octopath Traveler right now and even it's longest spell animations are about a full second of dropping an element on everything, with the absolute longest animation has the unit attacking with six different weapons lasting maybe three seconds and it's impossible to spam this skill (unless you for some reason want to try). The only time animations slow down is to signify a "Break" because it's so integral to the battle system and it feels great.

Implementation is how the player inputs directions. Yes, RPGs could be seen as "go through many menus" but it's only really obvious when there are too many skills and it's hard to pick what you want. Regardless of the system, you could easily fit 8 or 12 skills on the small menu with all simple information available (such as cost and relevant element, maybe even state changes with an icon). If someone has more skills, giving them a way to quickly change menus matters. And that's the second part is removing lag; Three inputs to go from Skills to Items isn't bad if the change is as quick as I can input because I can get to a point where it's not even a thought process. Just look at the number of games where it takes a second or longer just to open the main menu which is a single button press while RPG Maker has the menu open before you can depress the cancel button. Scrolling often ends up terrible and I think only existed in older games as a necessary evil. It's better to find a workaround or question why you need so many of something that scrolling happens.

Skill is the player's skill and being able to teach them. I often cite Final Fantasy Mystic Quest as being awesome in many ways but one thing it does (you can efficiently beat all random encounters in 2 turns) that I love I don't think many people actually notice and that's because the game doesn't need you to learn it because you can deal with encounters in longer battles without it appreciably taking longer time and resources are frankly easy to have "infinite" of. Using your game, especially early, to not only teach your player how to play but how to quickly determine optimal plays is important.

Length is probably most obvious but might also be the most important. My simple rule of thumb of "Randoms 2 turns, Miniboss 4 turns, Boss 8 turns" has worked overall well but it's never that simple. It's generally better to make dangerous but quick battles than safe but long battles. I see a lot of games that have battles that are just too long, from random encounters that just take forever because no one does enough damage to something absurd like Angry Mainyu in FFX-2 that took me an hour and a half even though the battle was already decided in the first thirty seconds (ironically I'd call it fast-paced, I never got a moment to relax and had to quickly input commands and deal with basically anything the boss dealt to me as soon as it happened).

Somewhat related to Aesthetics and Implementation is just entering battles. If it takes forever to enter battle (FF9 hah!) then the player notices, even if only subconsciously. Same in reverse; If it takes less than a second to go from battle transition start to player input, then the overall collective set of battles will feel faster paced (which I guess they technically are?).

I'm sure there are still ways to break it, but then again, no game is perfectly balanced. And if you are making a single player game, I don't believe it needs to be perfectly balanced anyways. In fact, some players enjoy finding ways to break a game, or seeing how broken of a build they can win with (either a good build or a very poor build).
Imbalance is an important part of all types of games. "Balancing" it is actually quite important. In rpgs it can feel great to "break" the game, or on a smaller scale, to personally learn which set of options is best. It can give the player agency in learning and make them feel more attached to what is happening. Even in multiplayer games, heck even in highly competitive multiplayer games I find it's better when things are slight unbalanced than trying to get absolute balance. Not to say it's impossible but rather in games that do seem to get a perfect set of balance things usually end up boring.

Plus, there's no feeling like winning a big Smash tournament with Ganondorf (lauded as worst tier).

  • Don't create resource crunches. There are certain games (dungeon-crawlers in particular) that need the Resource Crunch to be effective, but if we're just looking to create fast-paced battles, characters that use non-renewable resources (like traditional MP/Mana) to unleash their mid-damage actions (like a mage's standard spells) should have access to copious amounts of that resource, so the player isn't discouraged from freely using those spells. More often, it's good design to give casters a resource that renews during battle (or at least after each battle) that they can use to load big damage onto enemies.
Even getting entirely rid of resources can have a large affect on things. I remember one rpg maker game where most skills had no resource cost (like maybe five total among thirty characters had a one-per-battle skill) and each character had a max of 5 or 6 skills. There was no menu, just a small list of commands with no scrolling. It definitely made battles tense and quick.
 

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