Need some input on a possible map selling plan

[Archeia]

Just a suggestion, not sure about the viability but if you have puzzle map rooms that could help increase gameplay in a game, then that has higher chances of selling imo. (make fomar do them 8D)

 

[Napoleon]

+1 for selling maps with events/small scripts like puzzles like Archeia mentioned. But they have to be a bit better than the 'yet-another-teleporting' or 're-arrange the tiles' puzzle.

I'm not so sure about the idea because:

1. Commercial games (the one that are most likely to spend money imo) need unique & custom fit maps. But you could add some option like "buy this mappack and be the LAST one to buy it for an additional 25$"

2. People can probably legally 'steal' portions of your map design. They can not copy your map 1:1 but they can copy the small good portions of your larger maps and slightly adjust it. And the non-commercial games probably do this anyway.

3. There are plenty of map samples all over the internet. Plus hiring a mapper is a bit more expensive but then at least it's more custom and hopefully unique and has my personal preference.

4. I'm working on a modern-themed game. So I wouldn't even be able to buy a single mappack that would fit my needs.

 

[Dalph]

But then you could charge more. You should know better than anyone how much parallax maps are wanted here. People want unique looking maps, not maps they can make themselves.

Parallax Mapping = Time consuming x3 & Game Size Increase x3 = not worth

I don't care if it's beautiful, it's just not worth the time spent, I don't want to lose an entire week to make a decent map.

Indrah's mapping is fine as it is, her maps are simple but beautiful, and still better than a lot of messed parallax maps (with collision problems) that I see everyday. Honestly she (and Luchi) are the only two great mappers that I know, not everyone can make beautiful maps without parallax.

 

[Fomar0153]

Just a suggestion, not sure about the viability but if you have puzzle map rooms that could help increase gameplay in a game, then that has higher chances of selling imo. (make fomar do them 8D)

D: Do I get a say in this?

+1 for selling maps with events/small scripts like puzzles like Archeia mentioned. But they have to be a bit better than the 'yet-another-teleporting' or 're-arrange the tiles' puzzle.

If I was the one doing them then they'd be much more fancy than that:

 

[Indrah]

@Celianna: I don't really have the skill (or interest, I'll be honest) to make good parallax maps. I by far prefer editor mapping and I see parallax as a last resort.

I'm not really intererested intogoing that way, as there's already few comissions for tile maps at (lower) prices as it is. Comissions for highly detailed parallax maps at higher prices (that would need more requester input, which is by the way like PULLING TEETH) would be like finding unicorns in a sewer -_-

Or maybe not and there's a big market for it, but I really dont have skill for parallaxing XD

@Napoleon:

1- I would sell each pack ONCE. It's yours and yours alone to use (unless the buyer states otherwise)

2-I won't be showing every inch of the map when selling it. Just bits and pieces and the overall layout, but there's nothign I can really do if people want to be raging *******s about it.

3-*shrug* There's also lots of sample and usable sprites and faces out there. Sure most people don't buy, but would there be ENOUGH overall to keep a more or less steady stream of sales?

4-Can't do nothing bout that. I GUESS I could make maps with pre-made tilsets from the shop, but that'd be more an extra than a normal.

@Archeia: About the puzzles: Beyond simple blockages switches and so on, not going to happen.

1- This is about me needing money to subsist and being able to use a skillset that is relatively fast for me WHILE I work on our commercial project. Fomar is already busy as he is with the project+ has a day job.

2-The idea is to make usable maps. I have neither the skill NOR the time to make complicated puzzles with every set.

3-Honeslty if I start offering every bit of the development process I feel I may as well just put a "I'll make your entire game for you!" service out xD

Sure it would probably SELL, but it's not something I can do easily enough for it to be frequent (as I would need at this price). And pulling a puzzle would require raising the prices, and look at how many peeps already state 5 per map is too high ~_~

 

[Galenmereth]

But then you could charge more. You should know better than anyone how much parallax maps are wanted here. People want unique looking maps, not maps they can make themselves.

Everyone can make a parallax map, too, but it requires time, effort and practice to make good ones. Just like with tile based ones. It's more about style than anything else.

 

[Andar]

1- I would sell each pack ONCE. It's yours and yours alone to use (unless the buyer states otherwise)

That is possible, but you should also consider general sample map packages to be sold multiple times - that would allow you to lower the prices (or place more maps inside the package) and there would probably be quite a lot of people interested to use those maps as starting points for their own games, if the map package is cheap and general enough to be customized to their liking.

Keep both options open and don't limit yourself to one way...

 

[amerk]

That is possible, but you should also consider general sample map packages to be sold multiple times - that would allow you to lower the prices (or place more maps inside the package) and there would probably be quite a lot of people interested to use those maps as starting points for their own games, if the map package is cheap and general enough to be customized to their liking.

Keep both options open and don't limit yourself to one way...

I agree with Andar on this. We get all sorts of things in shops and stores (tilesets, sprites, battlers, audio, scripts, etc), but we don't have any map packs. We do have the sample maps that come with VX and Ace.

Oftentimes, I like using a sample map as a base, or at least a starting idea to create my own maps, and then modifying them from there. Sure, it's better to create your own maps, but some people aren't as good at it as others. Not only that, but if I'm setting out to create a tower, and I know my end tower will look about the same as the sample map (if not worse) why wouldn't I just use the sample map and then heavily modify it to suit my needs?

Having map packs sold in the store wouldn't really be any different than recruiting a mapper anyways, and you can resell the packs over and over again. However, for it to be worthwhile, I'd venture to say 20 various maps for each pack, each pack selling for no more than $50.

The problem you have is it would pretty much have to be RTP, which would greatly limit your audience. You couldn't do this for any of the store-purchased tilesets without first determining who actually purchased those tilesets.

 

[Indrah]

They probably wouldn't be sold in the store, btw. I doubt they accept maps as a resource (I faintly remember a rule about it since it has to be original content? I could be wrong tho).

Im fine with doing both options, sure, and doing extra tiles from the product shop is nice and all, but policing who actually has the sets would probably be a bit shifty.

 

[Aceri]

I don't particularly fancy the parallax mapping style that Celianna suggests (probably because I am no good at it haha), as it is very very tedious and time consuming for the designer. That being said though, all the people who DO want parallax maps in their games could certainly benefit from having someone else do it for them while they focus on making their events, ect..

I wouldn't really suggest though Indrah about selling pre-made map packs though, for the simple reason that you're looking at a relatively small margin of people of whom your maps would fit into their game world in a lore-wise setting.

With that being said however, I do see you being able to make income mapping for people such as say in the classifieds or what have you. My suggestion, and that's all it is, would be that you did something like this:

$1 per basic map.

$5 per map with events

$10 per basic parallax map

$15 per evented parallax map

$20 per evented/scripted parallax map

Then if your clients request specialties to the map, be it custom RTP edits and the like, charge extra.

Of course like I said that's just a suggestion. You've sold more than I have so you are better at pricing than I. Unfortunately I would never pay for mapping because I both do not have money and do not feel the need to pay someone to do something I am more than capable of doing. Though I understand there are people out there where mapping isn't their strong suit.

Or sell in bundles. Be like, "$25 for a bundled mix of 5 basic maps, 1 parallax map, and 2 evented maps." or something like that.

They probably wouldn't be sold in the store, btw. I doubt they accept maps as a resource (I faintly remember a rule about it since it has to be original content? I could be wrong tho).

Im fine with doing both options, sure, and doing extra tiles from the product shop is nice and all, but policing who actually has the sets would probably be a bit shifty.

Same can be said for the RTP also. There are a lot of people out there, probably a lot of people on these forums too, that use a pirated copy of RM, so you run into the same issues either way. But it shouldn't matter though being as how they are paying you for your services, if you do the job, get paid and they get busted for not having a legit copy of something, they can't really gripe for their money back.

 

[amerk]

Same can be said for the RTP also. There are a lot of people out there, probably a lot of people on these forums too, that use a pirated copy of RM, so you run into the same issues either way. But it shouldn't matter though being as how they are paying you for your services, if you do the job, get paid and they get busted for not having a legit copy of something, they can't really gripe for their money back.

But there is a big difference with making maps for somebody using tilesets they claim to own (but don't) and making maps to be sold in the store that everybody has access to using resources that not everybody has the rights to.

However, for the sake of argument, you aren't allowed to share any of your store purchases with anybody else, and you may even be obligated to encrypt your game when using store purchases to help prevent theft. In order for Indrah to make maps for other people she'd have to have access to the resources they are using, and give them an unencrypted copy of the maps she makes. If they are "paid for" resources, she'd have to ensure the people she is making the maps for have a legal copy of those resources.

So as a result, her only fall-back is to use the RTP.

 

[Indrah]

"$1 per basic map."

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.    No.

That is a terrible value for my time and work. In no way am I ever goign to charge that little for a map. :/

Mixing paralax adn tile based is silly. Either go all out one way or the other, it would jsut look jarring, more if they're for a same ZONE.

And what do you ven mean by "evented"? Make transprt events? I already said I would not be making puzzles, if that's what you mean.

As for the rtp: I am not providing the tilesets at all, since usign rtp means the program seeks THEIR files. If they pirate the program...that s my fault or responsability, how? :/ On the other hand for the porduct store stuff I'd have to provide the tilests myself, meaning not gonna happen. (At msot i'd instruct what tile goes where, but it'd be a mess).

 

[West Mains]

I don't think I'd ever pay $5 for any amount of maps but I do think the idea itself is a decent concept. I wouldn't use it myself but I could see why many would.

Why not make some kind of... I dunno. Large web book guide to mapping? Like some kind of tome of your wisdom or something? You could easily rake the price up to at least $5.25 at that point.

 

[Aceri]

I agree with West Mains in the sense that I wouldn't pay five dollars for a map.

I'm not as talented when it comes to mapping as you are Indrah, but I can still make a dozen or so decent maps within an hours worth of time. I am assuming that with your skills you can probably do the same amount of better quality maps in that same span of time, and by charging five bucks a map, just based on this observation not knowing how long it would actually take you to make a dozen maps of your caliber, you'd basically be evaluating your time as worth 65 bucks an hour, that's not including charging extra for puzzles or anything special and the like.

If you did do the "bundle pack" idea where you just make a set of maps and throw them up on say the RM store or something and sell them like the music/graphic packs, then I would think the best way to do that would be to have themed map packs. What I mean is like having one pack be full of just lush forest maps, another pack of snowy maps, another of desert maps, ect., because I don't think there are many people that would spend 20+ dollars on a pack of say a dozen maps just to end up only being able to utilize one or two, and then having to edit and change those one or two maps even still to fit with the other maps the person has made.

I actually think Wes Mains has a good idea in regards to writing a book about the art of good mapping. I know you've released things on the forums about mapping in the past, but make a book of sorts that's really in-depth, involving theories behind why you would wanna do things a certain way, why x is better than y, how to do Y when all you know is X, ect., whatever your book would entail. People love buying instructional books, so that would probably be the best way to go while still valuing yourself at a high price. I wouldn't spend 25 bucks for a collection of things I could learn to do on my own for free, but I would spend 25 bucks on a book that showed me how to do it right and the theories and things behind doing it right. That's just me though, there are people out there that are so lazy they would be willing to pay you to make their game for them, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I guess bottom line is I think anyone valuing themselves over $6/hour something simple like mapping is holding themselves too high. I don't mean to offend by saying that though, just can't think of a better way to say it haha.

Make a guidebook about mapping though and I'd pay 10+ dollars for it in a heartbeat if it was detailed enough. Plus if you do a guide you don't run the risk of getting those people that want your services, then once you made the product they would be like, "Nah, I don't like them, I'm not paying.". I mean if people are smart enough with their money, they wouldn't pay in advanced and hope that they're getting their monies worth, they'd pay at time of delivery once they've had a chance to look it over.

 

[Dalph]

I think 5$ is still fine, she's a talented mapper and from what I know, she works as fast as the wind.

I honestly don't know a lot of people who are good in "tileset" mapping, a lot of developers don't complete their games mainly because they get bored with mapping, since they find it tedious or they just can't do it right.

I too find mapping boring as hell, and for the record "I'm not bad at it", quite the opposite in fact, It's just too boring for me and I don't have patience for it.

And she already created a lot of "free" and useful mapping hints\tutorials, so there's no need for a guidebook.

 

[PixelLuchi]

You should still go for it, Indrah. If people think that $5 for a I dunno... 60x60 map ( big, but yeah :\ ) is too much, then that's their problem. I've seen your work. Simple, attractive and effective. And time efficient.

And yeah, mapping tutorials do exist on this site guys. You just have to look for them. No need for a 'guide-book', because good mapping comes with tons of practice. And I mean, a LOT of practice.

 

[Indrah]

The book is a good idea and all but youre suddenyl changign my skillset from mapper to fricking HELPBOOK WRITER XD. I do not have such skills. (Also I'd feel like a bit of a ***** by putting tutorials behind a pay wall).

As for the prices...well, that's certainly your stance. I don't gree with it, that's all. I don't even comment on the size of the maps, and if you can map ten maps of varied sizes from minium to 30*30 in rtp in less than a cuple hours to warrant a 20 bcuks price...congratulations? That service would not be aimed at you if you can make your own maps fine XD

But yeah, I'm already workign on my off-ish times (from main project rrrg). Have a Cave+pìrate harbo (10 maps) done and workign on finsihing the itneripor of a snow town with castle, interiors included (god the snow was a fricking *****).

I'll probably make another dungeony place for the starter set. Any suggestions? (Within rtp capabilities, as always).

 

[Dalph]

But yeah, I'm already workign on my off-ish times (from main project rrrg). Have a Cave+pìrate harbo (10 maps) done and workign on finsihing the itneripor of a snow town with castle, interiors included (god the snow was a fricking *****).

Let me guess...the snowy town is "that" snowy town that I asked you to make in that stream? ahahah...

I'll probably make another dungeony place for the starter set. Any suggestions? (Within rtp capabilities, as always).

I suggest a Volcano, since there aren't a lot of them.

 

[Indrah]

Yes, THAT ONE YOU LITTLE BASTARD. THAT ONE YOU SADISTS MADE ME MAKE. I'm finishign up the castle interior.

A volcano...I guess. THey're a bit fiddly coz there's so few decoration tiles (exactly two rocks and one crumb tile, oh yay) but I think I'll manage.

 

[amerk]

The book is a good idea and all but youre suddenyl changign my skillset from mapper to fricking HELPBOOK WRITER XD. I do not have such skills. (Also I'd feel like a bit of a ***** by putting tutorials behind a pay wall).

As for the prices...well, that's certainly your stance. I don't gree with it, that's all. I don't even comment on the size of the maps, and if you can map ten maps of varied sizes from minium to 30*30 in rtp in less than a cuple hours to warrant a 20 bcuks price...congratulations? That service would not be aimed at you if you can make your own maps fine XD

But yeah, I'm already workign on my off-ish times (from main project rrrg). Have a Cave+pìrate harbo (10 maps) done and workign on finsihing the itneripor of a snow town with castle, interiors included (god the snow was a fricking *****).

I'll probably make another dungeony place for the starter set. Any suggestions? (Within rtp capabilities, as always).

The purpose of this topic, or at least from what I assumed, was that you were looking for feedback. Heck, your own poll even asks if we think this is a good idea, would we buy them, and if $5 is an okay price. Yet.... whenever anybody comes up with any suggestions or disagrees with the price, you get defensive about the idea. Obviously, you think this is a swell idea, even though not very many people appear to be buying into it.

Honestly, it's up to you to decide what route to go. Maybe you really don't care about the feedback so much, but then what would be the point of this thread and poll if you didn't? And considering you appear to be strapped for cash:

So long story short my money is running out fast and I won’t be getting money from the commercial project we have on the works for months yet, and commissions are both time consuming (due to requirements and back and forth communication) and random.

it would seem better to listen to the feedback and mayhap even humbly accept the ideas, or at minimum respectably decline the ideas without scoffing at the very people you are asking for help.

"$1 per basic map."

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.    No.

That is a terrible value for my time and work. In no way am I ever goign to charge that little for a map. :/

Mixing paralax adn tile based is silly. Either go all out one way or the other, it would jsut look jarring, more if they're for a same ZONE.

Maybe you feel $5 should be the appropriate price, but you asked, and apparently there are plenty of others that don't agree with the price, especially considering it's RTP. We appreciate you have a skill, and like other skillsets here, you want to cash in on that skill, but outside of joining a professional team for a commercial endeavor, I don't see very many people that would jump on this, not at $5 per RTP map. A reasonably priced map pack perhaps, ones that are appropriately themed.

Personally, I see the "How To" book as your best option. You could include tons of maps with instructions on how to design them, sell the book at $25 to $30 as was suggested, and people who buy the book can then replicate those maps themselves using whatever resources they want. It's the best of all worlds because you still put your skills to the test and make money from it, the buyer is not limited to the RTP but whatever resources he wants to duplicate your maps, and the buyer/user winds up learning how to make maps by following yours instead of having it handed to them.

If you don't like the idea, that's fine, but it was fairly suggested. If you're determined to limit yourself to RTP maps that will sell at a minimum of $5, and don't want suggestions outside of this, then you should change the polls and the main post to reflect this.