Negative points about MV when compared with older RMs?

[KisaiTenshi]

I thought about adding a "check for used resources" option to my unofficial, prototype Resource Manager.  To say it would be tricky is an understatement.  Sure, I can easily open all of the Javascript files and do a search, and maybe load each Map, in turn and check every single Event and command for resources used.    So, it sounds easy to do, but in practice, it's trickier than you might think.

My biggest concern is it would be highly likely to want to delete something that is actually in use in some fashion.  And, nothing is less fun than removing an "unused" Resource which is really still being used and finding it breaks the game in some strange way.  I had loads of fun when I removed resources manually in VX Ace projects, and then my game broke in strange ways.

It's actually very easy to create a resource manager, just the tools for it don't exist on Windows by default. 

Step 1: iterate through every file in the RPG Maker IMG directory, grep for the image use in the data/*.json files and js/*.js . if not found, remove.

Step 2: iterate through every file in the RPG Maker BGM directory, grep for the image use in the data/*.json files and js/*.js . if not found, remove. 

Step 3: run optipng -o9 * on all png files.

In the case of the audio you have to do a check without the .m4a/ogg file name.

Like I know how I would do it on MacOS X. Just the thing is, never "pre-optmize" assets, because you'll definitely waste time undoing mistakes.

Once you have an optimized asset set, package it and testplay it to completion to make sure that the performance is reasonable and no mistakes were made. 

Ideally you'd run an asset-count script to see if you aren't using some files just once. Because aside from the splash screen, you don't want to use stuff "just once". 

Mouser, on 26 Oct 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

To me the biggest change is moving the engine from C to Javascript.

The plus is gives almost total control over the engine to the developer.

The minus is that Javascript will not / does not / and cannot perform as well as native C code.

I call that an overall plus though. (I also call getting off Ruby a plus, too).

The only real negative 'compared to earlier makers' is a limitation on map sizes. Personally, I think 256x256 is a BIG map. As people have said, there aren't many finished games out there that have huge (400x400+) maps in them. Was it a restriction for mobile?

That's not really a hard limitation. You can actually make 999x999 maps in the editor, and make further adjustments just editing the .json files. However as I've mentioned before, mobile devices have a lot less memory, so it's the number of unique tilesets that are going to drag the performance down.

 

[StarkinGyra]

I just have to say overall, I am enjoying MV. I jumped right in and the main problem I had was just me having to relearn where things were. 

 

[Shion Kreth]

I, myself, am mostly only concerned with how slow things like maps load when playing, and feel movements aren't always smooth(and I definitely am not running on an older PC). I like the art style, side view battle system and good riddance resource manager(in the resource manager you were effectively trudging through file folders anyway, just one set of resources at a time.. super inefficient). 

edit: Though I may have to eat my own words because I don't seem to understand how to adjust the data files once we've put the resources in the appropriate folders for our game to know they're there(I'm not sure they don't know just from it being in the directory).

 

[Ice Dragon]

Too many bugs!If that continues I will have issues.I will wait some weeks for my final judgment.

 

[Tobbx]

Rpg Maker MV runs smootly for me and i have no problems with bugs or loading times so far. I have an issue with two things. 

1. When Selecting a skill or an item from a toll down menu you can't see what ID said Skill or Item has. Earlier versions of RPG Maker showed them like this: 0001: Potion  for example. I also have an issue with the fact that all skill IDs appear 

as names. In earlier versioins if say Skill ID 127 was blank it was displayed as blank in roll down menus to. But in RPG Maker MV it appears with the NAME 127 instead wich makes it alot harder to find the Items/Skills you are actually looking for.

2. No Multicopy. This is such a major issue for me since i usually rearrange my database alot. Copying every Skill/Item/Animation on it's own is to time consuming. So i have to keep them in an unorganised order. 

 

[Tommy Gun]

Rpg Maker MV runs smootly for me and i have no problems with bugs or loading times so far. I have an issue with two things. 

1. When Selecting a skill or an item from a toll down menu you can't see what ID said Skill or Item has. Earlier versions of RPG Maker showed them like this: 0001: Potion  for example. I also have an issue with the fact that all skill IDs appear 

as names. In earlier versioins if say Skill ID 127 was blank it was displayed as blank in roll down menus to. But in RPG Maker MV it appears with the NAME 127 instead wich makes it alot harder to find the Items/Skills you are actually looking for.

2. No Multicopy. This is such a major issue for me since i usually rearrange my database alot. Copying every Skill/Item/Animation on it's own is to time consuming. So i have to keep them in an unorganised order. 

#1 - Oh, you're right! I did notice that earlier, but it didn't really hit me that that was actually removed. I wonder if that's something they can add back in with an update?

#2 - what do you mean by that? You can shift-select multiple items and copy/paste them. Do you mean something else?

 

[MikeMakes]

- Finally, this is one of my (if not the) BIGGEST issues. In RPG Maker XP, if you used the 'Set Move Route' command, you can use Change Graphic to make an event animate. This was a very simple process, as you can choose individual frames of animation. However, in MV, you can only choose entire character sets - not individual frames of animation. This is a technique I use constantly in development, and I am sincerely dreading this process in MV...

Wow, that's a REALLY big bummer to make things more lively considering I came from XP. I guess maybe doing more event pages is needed to change frame.

 

[Tobbx]

#2 - what do you mean by that? You can shift-select multiple items and copy/paste them. Do you mean something else?

I did not really know about that but i found that out recently. Shift Selecting is even better than the right click multicopy command from earlier versions. 

Overall i still thinks this is by far the most supperior engine yet. You also have to take in to consideration that it was recently released. Give it a couple of months 

and VX ACE will be out of meta for sure. As of now i don't see what kind of improvements  they can add to future makers to appeal to me. 

 

[Ultima2876]

4. Yes, this one is correct. It is up to the game developer to pick and choose what files they will be using. It's easiest to just remove all RTP content, except ones that the system requires you to have (which is the stuff in the system folder, under img), and then just add back in the resources you use.

I've made a tool to strip out unused files. It's a bit of a work-in-progress, but it takes seconds to use it  http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/47985-mvstripper-remove-unused-assets-from-your-mv-project/

 

[Accendor]

6. Resource manager gone, I think? And we need to transfer files manually.

I always considered this a good thing. I remember all the times I created a game and wanted to give it to someone to test or play it in older makers and there were always some resources missing, because I did not copy them manually into the game folder and THEN imported them over the resource manager or some stupid stuff like that. Today I just copy them into the folder and everything is fine.

 

[cabal23]

I was really on the fence about MV. I teach an after school program where we use RPG Maker VX to introduce programming. I was prepared to buy 20 copies of MV, but reading these forums has made me reconsider. Making tools to create work arounds is not my idea of a good time. While the few improvements are apparent, it just doesn't go far enough. This really is a step down in a lot of ways for casual designers. Maybe in a few years when there is an abundance of scripts, it might be worth it, but dropping $100 to basically be at a place far below where I am now with VX, it just doesn't seem worth it.

 

[Mouser]

I was really on the fence about MV. I teach an after school program where we use RPG Maker VX to introduce programming. I was prepared to buy 20 copies of MV, but reading these forums has made me reconsider. Making tools to create work arounds is not my idea of a good time. While the few improvements are apparent, it just doesn't go far enough. This really is a step down in a lot of ways for casual designers. Maybe in a few years when there is an abundance of scripts, it might be worth it, but dropping $100 to basically be at a place far below where I am now with VX, it just doesn't seem worth it.

I'll be honest, neither Ruby not Javascript would be my choice to introduce kids to programming, but the eventing and game building is certainly worthwhile. Wait until December, a lot will have shaken out by then and you can get a better view of the landscape. If you're already using VX, there's no real urgency for you to change (and I would advise not changing midstream with kids having stuff that won't translate directly over to MV anyway).

If it looks solid to you for the new year, you could switch over during the semester break (but again, porting projects could be tricky even with no scripts involved, scripting would all have to be rewritten).  Otherwise, you'll have your next good opportunity come summertime.

 

[Hoppy]

It had too many bugs at launch, while most of them in my case were fixed in 1.01 (especially animations which has no lag now and the memory leak is stablized) there's still some slight editor lag.

A lacking character generator, I can't make sprites of characters and tutorials don't help when it comes to characters, icons and weapons are another story as I have some of my own loaded into MV and I was making icons the morning after I seen my first tutorial.

Lack of DLC, this is not a game and I want some extra paid DLC at least the week after launch to reduce the generator bareness.  You have actual games getting paid DLC day 1, but not something where it can be important.

Missing assets, some characters don't have a SV battler for example.

 

[monkeyintartan]

I think the only real issues for me are the way each new generation of RPG maker seems to cut out the ease of usability for those who have little knowledge of game design. The way it is marketed saying a child can make a game seems to loose power when each new engine actually makes it harder to just simply jump in an easily make a game .

VX Ace had a large database of items and pre made weapons ect making it a simple choice of picking one. MV hardly has any at all and no way to auto crate damage formulas so if your a complete novice you can find it confusing. 

XP had a fog system (i think its XP) where you can have a "fog" picture and easily make it scroll allowing for added feel to the environment you are making. I don't think any other engine has this.

Basically things are cut out of the engines that in my opinion actually make it allot simpler to jump in a create a game. I always though if an RPG Maker engine was done purely for childered where all options are added in the database and simple instructions it would be a great way for children to tell story's and be creative at school, even having teacher mark the games for english skill math skills in damage formulas, and story telling\writing. But with each new engine it gets harder for ammeters and is more tailored to people willing to spend time  either learning the language to write scripts or plugins or spending hours in the forums searching for ones they like.

What i find better about MV in this case is the way things are now plugins and not scripts. I find that plugins are allot more user friendly and do make this engine easier to use in terms of changing how things work. Though why make an engine that already comes with Several Plugins to change how the core of it works when you could make the engine core itself work in better ways.

MV is great, i love the feel of the editor, the better sizes of things. In general its a step forward in many ways, I just think its a shame that there seems to be more time spent on how to change the core of the engine after with plugins than making the core have the options its self to be much more adaptable and user friendly .

 

[Tommy Gun]

VX Ace had a large database of items and pre made weapons ect making it a simple choice of picking one. MV hardly has any at all and no way to auto crate damage formulas so if your a complete novice you can find it confusing. 

They posted the full database separately. This was so your project wasn't cluttered with stuff you weren't going to use. You can copy the files over.

 

[Ultima2876]

They posted the full database separately. This was so your project wasn't cluttered with stuff you weren't going to use. You can copy the files over.

Oh! I missed that. Have you got a link?

 

[Tommy Gun]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17078211/RMMV_data.rar

 

[Ultima2876]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17078211/RMMV_data.rar

Thanks!

 

[Tommy Gun]

A lacking character generator, I can't make sprites of characters and tutorials don't help when it comes to characters, icons and weapons are another story as I have some of my own loaded into MV and I was making icons the morning after I seen my first tutorial.

I think I've seen other people complain about this -- what exactly is missing? I just counted, and the Ace generator had 20 "cloth" options, while MV has 18. Not far off! Is it missing other stuff? It seems great to me. Not to mention the fact that it creates great "face" graphics and also sideview!

 

[KisaiTenshi]

I'll be honest, neither Ruby not Javascript would be my choice to introduce kids to programming, but the eventing and game building is certainly worthwhile. Wait until December, a lot will have shaken out by then and you can get a better view of the landscape. If you're already using VX, there's no real urgency for you to change (and I would advise not changing midstream with kids having stuff that won't translate directly over to MV anyway).

If it looks solid to you for the new year, you could switch over during the semester break (but again, porting projects could be tricky even with no scripts involved, scripting would all have to be rewritten).  Otherwise, you'll have your next good opportunity come summertime.

I disagree. If anything, Javascript is superior to learn rather than Java or Ruby, because Java and Ruby are rarely used outside the context of a server. So if you're going to teach kids how to program via games, Javascript is what you should be teaching them because anything learned in it can be reapplied to native language's like C/C++/C#/OBJC/Swift. On the other hand if you're going to teach people how to develop AJAX/Web 2.0 web pages, then there is a huge mess to learn if you employ any kind of framework, and it often involves not only Javascript, but PHP and various other "but this makes it easier" --NOT concepts that you'll never end up using except with a gun pointed at you.

Depending on what your goals are, learning Javascript for games without learning the C++/Java OOP style is actually a benefit, because otherwise you get into the mindset that everything has to be done with layers and layers of OOP code. Thus we end up with software that is not only bloated, but filled with Not-invented-here wrappers over other wrappers for the sake of isolating one developer from another.

One should learn how NOT to use OOP before using OOP. A way to frame this is "one should learn to drive stick before driving an automatic" in car analogies. If you only know how to drive an automatic you reduce your options and are less flexible on vehicle options. But learn to drive manual transmission you'll see how to optimize when to shift. It's the same in programming. 

Anyhow, MV is probably a good tool to demonstrate how a complete game works, since you can see all of the inner-working javascript. Overriding things with plugins demonstrates how to change parts of the program without having to write everything from scratch.