Negative stigma around RTP

SOC

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I've noticed this for years since I got into RM2k, that there's always this intense hatred for people that use RTP resources in their games. So much so, that they would rather you use custom resources that look considerably worse or don't fit in your game at all simply because they aren't RTP. Personally I've always loved the RTP in every RPG Maker, especially VX Ace's and MV's. I think some of this comes from a huge desire to want to stand out from the crowd: and I can get that, to a point. I think if you try too hard to stand out however, even to the detriment of the quality of your game, that you end up missing the point and are worse off than just making a good game with the RTP. I'm a firm believer that I'd much rather have a game that uses RTP and is done well, than one that uses custom resources and is done poorly. I'm not saying I'm against custom resources or that a game is done poorly with them, but I just think there's far too much negativity around the RTP, and there always has been. I don't really understand it well enough. I still remember that VX Ace sample game, Crysalis, and I actually loved it. The battle theme used always reminds me of that game when I hear it and makes me want to go back and play it.

What do you think? Are you cool with RTP resources if it's done well? Are you against it like the plague even if it makes the game quality overall worse to not use them? Why?
 
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Ah a man after my own heart. I've been saying this for years, and its sad because people spend so much time worrying about how good their game looks that they end up down playing the gameplay. I come from an era where graphics were 8 - 16bit, but the gameplay was legendary, as opposed to whatever bit graphics we have now and some of the worst gameplay in the world.
 

HexMozart88

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I understand what you're saying, but I also understand why people hate RTP. It's for the simple reason that people associate RTP with a lack of effort, and I'm guilty of this too. Think about it. If you look at a game and it has completely custom everything, with beautiful graphics that probably took ages to make, compared to some game that has generator/RTP characters, nothing is custom, etc., you'd want to go with the former since it's clear they actually tried to make the game look good/different, rather than just a carbon copy of the engine. It's usually given a bad name because of the people who make horrible games with clearly no effort whatsoever, and use the RTP for everything. However, if a game has average graphics but it's a good game, I'll play it. Now, if the graphics are HORRIBLE, that's a different story. I personally don't like RTP (XP is an exception), but I will play an RTP game if there's actually some structure behind the bad graphics. Like Undertale. I hate the graphics in that game, but it's pretty decent otherwise, so I don't downgrade it for the graphics.
 

OnslaughtSupply

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I think some of the hatred for RTP comes from
1- the amount of bad games made with default assets
2- if you play a lot of RPGM games, its like playing the same game over and over again with just different names and places.
3- The perception of effort put in. Even with ground breaking game play, to some at first glance, its like you didn't try.

RTP can be done really well and a nice mix of some custom art or parallax mapping / doodads can really add some life and flavor into it.

But lets say you have a RTP game with wonderful story and game play and the same game with custom art, which would you prefer? Which would look like the developer took more care in? If the developer shows that they took the extra time to make it, players are more likely to take the time to play it.
 

The Stranger

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It's not just the RTP which is starting to get a bad rap now. Basically, if someone knows you've simply purchased assets from the store, as part of a pack, then they'll claim you're being lazy. I've seen this a fair bit on Steam, and not just for RPG Maker. There's a very vocal number of gamers who have unrealistically high expectations for all games.

The RTP, as you've said, is aesthetically pleasing. I've never had a problem with buying and playing RM games which use RTP, just as I've never had a problem buying and playing Unity games which use store assets. From personal experience, most games which focus on custom art and beautiful presentation wind up being boring experiences. Now, I'm not saying this is true for all custom asset RM games, but it has been mostly true from my experience.

I do appreciate pretty and highly detailed maps\areas, but that's mainly because I'm a sucker for things such as environmental storytelling and giving an area its own distinct personality. I also have art styles I like and don't like; which has made me prefer RTP over custom a fair few times with some of the games I've played.

The main reason, I feel, for the vast majority of the negativity surrounding the RTP, at least on places such as Steam, is because of the poorly made RPG Maker games on there which just so happen to use the RTP.

At the end of the day, I'll go with whatever looks the most pleasing to me. The RTP just so happens to look really nice when used well, and can often look far better than custom assets.
 
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Dalph

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I think the RTP materials are good enough to cover every normal use, they are easy to edit and with plenty add-ons for them available. Not everyone is an artist nor can afford to hire one, come on now, many of us are just hobbyists and simply want to tell stories here.
It's a matter about how you use what you have more than anything else, I have two short games here that mostly use the MV RTP and they have been both well received.
It is true that a game with custom graphics will always have the advantage over an RTP one but let's not forget that to make a game you also need good writing and most importantly "gameplay", we are talking about games here not pretty pictures.
 

sura_tc

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It's not just RPG maker. People frown upon anyone using just default or purchased resources in any game engines or software (3D modelling community is like this as well).

In my defense, I say that my works are one-person operation and I have to decide where I must focus. And it's the truth. In some cases though, people are just lazy.
 

SOC

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I dunno', I don't see using RTP as lazy. I see lazy games designed lazily as lazy. Just because they used RTP it self doesn't matter to me, as long as they didn't use it lazily. Not everyone's an artist, and the RTP is beautiful, so I don't mind at all seeing it used even if a lot of people use it in other games. It isn't what it is that makes it memorable, it's how it was used creatively and how well designed the game is as a whole that gets me. To be honest, there's A LOT of RPG Maker games that completely turn me off because they try to use custom graphics that I think look much worse than the RTP and I won't even bother clicking past the screenshots. But when I see an RTP game, I immediately already am far more interested simply because it looks good.

So if I see an RTP game and a non-RTP game next to each other and they're both equal quality, I'll try them both with no discrimination because I'm not biased to it or without it. I don't see using RTP as lazy. I think being creative and clever with what you have available is the core essence of good game design. You don't have to be an artist to be a good game designer or use the RTP well and make good RPG Maker games, that's the point here I think.
 

Kes

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We have had endless threads about this, for example this 29 page behemouth. It contains just about every shade of opinion. There are also threads on this part of the forum. Search is your friend. I personally see no point in rehashing identical points more than 5 or 6 times.
 

SOC

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We have had endless threads about this, for example this 29 page behemouth. It contains just about every shade of opinion. There are also threads on this part of the forum. Search is your friend. I personally see no point in rehashing identical points more than 5 or 6 times.
Well, I'm always afraid to necro old threads since that's not allowed and I think it's good to talk about things regularly as new people get to join discussions that weren't there before. Sometimes new perspectives can change opinions, or at the very least help understand them better.
 

starlight dream

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I agree that the use of RTP doesn't affect the quality of the game.

Now for the criticism it gets: I suspect lots of it comes from people who use RM themselves. They're the most knowledgeable on what resources exist within it. For example I watch Driftwood play a demo and as soon as a battle starts he looks at the enemy for 1 second and goes: default stuff, default animations.
Most players who aren't RM users, can't tell if that window tile on the house, has been a bit customized or not.

I think the criticism comes in big part from within the community. If person A is capable of customizing their game, they think person B who uses RTP-only is lazy, or somehow inferior to them. I don't get it at all.
RPG maker is a product that is made to be used on its own, by people who can't make their own program "Easy enough for a child"...
If using it as it is, is a negative thing then people shouldn't buy it at all.

Buying assets is very expensive. And if you want to make money with your game, you better keep your costs low. If you sell your rpg for 2$ and have to repay hundreds worth of packs, it's not the smartest investment.
Most people can't create their own resources anyway and even if they do, it's not worth the time it takes (financially).
I can make my own assets, but the year I'll spend doing that, is time I can use on a job. It's also time I can put on making a 2nd game or other activities.

Perhaps the RTP hatred comes from people who are clueless about finances. :p It's a bit immature to hate the rtp. I understand that someone may have an aesthetic preference against it.

And the default tiles look better than those of certain packages available.

I've played and disliked a few RPGM games, but it had nothing to do with the look of the game, more with plot and dialogue.
 

HexMozart88

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Buying assets is very expensive.
THIS. I legit cannot tell you how many times I've been like "Pretty map assets! OwwwO" Only to find out that it costs 50 bucks. I use RTP constantly for maps and such, though it's edited heavily. I even use sample maps 'cause I'm stupid and can't figure out map layout to save my life. But let me tell you. If I were to make my tiles and stuff all by myself, it'd take me a lot longer than a week to make a map. I usually get repelled by the faces, I won't deny that, since the Ace/MV generator faces look pretty bad to me. So I make my own portraits. As far as tiles, I personally can't stand most of Ace's default tiles, but with some parallaxing, ooh, those look simply blessed. I edit them considerably as well and it looks fine. So yeah, I can have some sympathy for those who use RTP, just what bugs me is when you just play as Eric and you don't change a thing in the engine at all. Because THAT's laziness, since all mechanics are the same, all the aesthetic, everything. That's when I just won't play it.
 

starlight dream

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@HexMozart88 Yes, the facesets are something I change too for sure.
It's nice that you have a skill you can apply to personalize your characters. It's a plus in your bag of tricks.
And you make a fair point about developers who don't change anything at all. The newer makers have generators, so the faces and sprites can be easily customized.
 

Caitlin

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(-_-') Back in the day, I couldn't edit, create or do anything with graphics to save my life and I started to mess around with those graphics during the days of RPG Maker XP. I know that lots of people seemingly think that resource packs, RTP are the lazy way to go about it, and I even know why, too. I disagree with them, by the way, but what else is new? Yeah, there are bad games with lazy or bad maps. Yes, there are games that seemingly overuse graphics and make no attempt to show any effort into the games. I am lucky that I've learned to remix, but I think it's funny that I have to work harder, because they have very little effort to show that I am putting effort into my game. So, they've increased my workload graphically, but who I am kidding. =^.^= I would have done that anyway.

Back in the day of sites like Gamingw.net, if you used RTP you might get compliments, but if you really wanted to impress people, you would make your own custom graphics. Even if they completely sucked, because you showed 'effort'. Me I am rather open when it comes to graphics from 3D (current), 3D (old), pixel, painted, cel-shaded, anime style, new pixel types with only a couple of styles that I don't like, so I don't mind if you create your own (if you can, do that's what I say) or you buy a pack and remix it (hey, it's a good skill to have). Good maps are good maps is another thing I say.
 

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I'm fine with default, but I really think people should change something, even just the bed alignment. Plus there are so many beautiful free tiles and battlers and music and such out there that I just love and have never seen used. It doesn't take as much work as people think to do something a little different than the default.
 

bhindi1224

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It is my personal opinion that if someone is going to rate your game based on the availability of the artwork used, then you aren't going to get their complete approval regardless of what you do. It is true that you shouldn't just put objects randomly to try and fill a space, you should definitely try to envision the layout that you want. The RTP stuff seems to work find in most situations because it's designed to. Like Sharm says, using the default stuff is fine as long as you are using it to portray your own vision. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the player goes into a throne room and sees a throne that's made from a free resource vs. a throne that you made yourself over a process of months, both should be judged as to their visual appeal based on the art itself, not where it came from.
 

Tuomo L

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For free game it's a-okay to use RTP. But if you plan on releasing your game for a market, you absolutely must stand apart from other games somehow. The last thing you want is your game to seem "generic" with so many games out there and the competition is fierce.
 

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If you're trying to make a commercial game the RTP graphics are only serving as an upward battle you could honestly avoid by investing time or resources into custom assets. RPG Maker shares a similar reputation to Unity and its Asset Store. You can use the RTP for sure, but it's immediately recognizable and anyone who's done a cursory glance into rpg maker games as a whole will most likely apply a sour connotation to your game as a result.

The convenience may be nice, but you're eschewing any hope of a unique art style or personality by using the RTP. Not saying it's impossible, but you're essentially begging the player to not automatically conflate your project with the 500+ others that utilize the same assets you do.
 

kaisielizen

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I've only been in this community for under a month, and I notice the preference for non-RTP resources. I get it, but it's also kind of shitty. I used to be pursuing music as a career, and the video game industry seems to be nearly as competitive (good thing I only make v games for fun/myself). I personally prefer RTP to shitty non-RTP graphics, and like, the gameplay is what is most important to me. The map can literally be a square box, but, if the gameplay is addictive, then I'm in. But I mean, I like FFX-2, so maybe I just have terrible taste, lol.
 

bhindi1224

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I've only been in this community for under a month, and I notice the preference for non-RTP resources. I get it, but it's also kind of shitty. I used to be pursuing music as a career, and the video game industry seems to be nearly as competitive (good thing I only make v games for fun/myself). I personally prefer RTP to shitty non-RTP graphics, and like, the gameplay is what is most important to me. The map can literally be a square box, but, if the gameplay is addictive, then I'm in. But I mean, I like FFX-2, so maybe I just have terrible taste, lol.
I wonder if this applies to DLC bought in the store too. I've seen varying degrees of disdain over a spectrum of resources.
 
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