Negative stigma around RTP

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SOC, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. velan235

    velan235 Veteran Veteran

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    for me personally , MV / VX/A RTP skeleton (sprite) is really . . . . generic. okay this is a weird statement because RTP meant to be generic.

    I don't know if this is a bias but I feel RM2K / RM2K3 RTP feel less generic, do note I've played tons of 2k/2k3 in the past so it feel less generic even in more playtime vs MV/VX/A.

    another possibility is that the pallete colour. 2K/2K3 has less colour than MV / VX I guess? so mix and match with custom asset wasn't really a pain in the eye, while MV/VX/A , you suddenly realize any custom around MV RTP is out of the balance, so it's either you go custom or stick with RTP style (generator could also gives extra touch , but still...)

    another thing is the popularity of yanfly basic script (menu/battle/etc.) that used by everyone without extra touch, makes them feel more generic (ie. yanfly equip menu layout with that 7++ equipment slot space)

    so for RTP , I wanted to focus on MV/VX one , as they seems can't fit extra custom touch (even the DLC itself FEEL doesn't fit with them) and (personally) while the MV/VX RTP feels neat , they just boring.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  2. SOC

    SOC "God is my Judge" Veteran

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    I have to agree about the DLC not feeling like it fits with the RTP, that's pretty much true for all the DLC across all the RPG Makers I've found. There's some that can kind of fit, but it still feels really jarring going from an RTP field or town into a DLC dungeon. I really wish they would make RTP expansions as DLC, and of course making sure the base RTP is fully complete and fleshed out for proper game making so that DLC was only extra content, not "pay more for the actual full content."

    For example, the MV RTP uses a lot of VX Ace RTP in its assets, but it didn't get all of the VX Ace RTP. VX Ace has the best RTP of the series and you could do a whole lot with it, so I wish MV would release some RTP DLC that includes more of the VX Ace RTP but upgraded and stylized to fit MV with the rest of MV's RTP. I love MV's RTP, but it does feel a bit lacking, especially in details and more varieties of dungeon-wall like tiles.
     
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  3. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    On the question of RTP dlc - that's where the vast number of free edits available come in. It's certainly already possible to have, as suggested, more variety of dungeon walls.

    My guess (and that's all it is, I have no inside information) is that it would not be commercially attractive to do RTP dlc precisely because of the huge number of free tiles and sprites around. At the moment, there is less variety for MV than for Ace, but that's mainly because Ace has been around longer and if you picked up VX in a sale, (as I did) then the sheer quantity of resources made for that which you can use in Ace is staggering.

    Again my personal opinion, I think that some of the people complaining about the narrowness of the RTP have not looked through the Resources section. Okay, not all of it is of the highest standard, but there is still a massive amount there to enable any developer to broaden their asset base.
     
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  4. SOC

    SOC "God is my Judge" Veteran

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    That's a really good point. This community does have a lot of really good recolors and RTP edits to use, I certainly use them a lot. I still feel like expecting the community to do the work of the developers is kind of silly however. The developers should just give even more content for the community to work with, but I'm not necessarily that unhappy with MV's base RTP. It's good enough, and certainly provides enough for good editing. I guess I never thought about VX Ace having VX before it. Living up to VX Ace's RTP is pretty challenging, but I think it would be good for Enterbrain/Kadowaka to raise the standard on what RTP should provide (MV's RTP soundtrack in particular is my favorite thus far). MV certainly raised a lot of standards that I am expecting to see continue with whatever future RPG Makers are released.
     
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  5. Frogboy

    Frogboy I'm not weak to fire Veteran

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    One of the biggest things hurting MV's RTP in my opinion is the lack of side view enemy sprites. While the selection is good for the money, I think they are missing an opportunity there. Monster packs could be released each year like D&D monster manuals, could charge $30-$40 for them and pretty much everyone who bought MV would pony up for them. More monster sprites that fit the same RTP style are desperately needed.
     
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  6. Cryranos

    Cryranos Veteran Veteran

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    I proudly use RTP out of laziness: I don't ever intend to sell anything I make because I do this exclusively for personal enjoyment and diversion and it isn't really important to my experience that I have custom graphics. Also, I'm a product of the XP era when this was exclusively a hobby; commercial games were somewhat stigmatized in the parts of the community I frequented, especially the successful ones like the early Aveyond games (which made use of the RTP) were subject to scorn.

    Paying more than I few dollars for assets for use on projects that I'd only ever release for free, if at all, would be wasteful, and spending a lot of time finding and adapting assets available for free is only a bit less wasteful. Even writing my own soundtrack (composing music is what I do) is not particularly high on my list of priorities. I spend enough hours staring at Sibelius and Logic when I'm working. I don't need to do it when I'm playing.
     
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  7. Requiem

    Requiem Veteran Veteran

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    I don't get it either.

    If I wanted to play a game that looks great, I wouldn't play a RM game.

    (not that an RM game cannot look great, but there's just too many good cheap games nowaday, that if the only selling point of an RM game is graphics, it's in big trouble)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  8. kaukusaki

    kaukusaki Awesome Programmer Extraordinaire Veteran

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    I'm guilty of using RTP but after some digital Bob Ross magic you really can't tell XD If I had more time, I'd generate everything by scratch, but just adding what the resources lacks and matching the style takes up time (as well as creating custom music, gui, and more code, etc). I'm just happy RTP exists. It saves me time.
     
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  9. Windows i7

    Windows i7 Veteran Veteran

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    I actually prefer seeing RTP vs lower quality custom content. It's hard to beat or even match (IMO) the quality of some of the RTP assets unless you're a rather skilled artist.
     
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  10. jonthefox

    jonthefox Veteran Veteran

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    Do you mean that Aekashic's battlers are incompatible with the default RTP battlers (which obviously...I agree), or with the default tiles/sprites/battlebacks for MV in general? Because I always thought they were a little off (Aekashics is kind of more retro looking) but close enough to get away with it, since they're both still chibi-ish.
     
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  11. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    Exactly, the amount of rtp edits including my own is staggering. You could make 100 different games and not have one matching tileset with rtp edits in resource section alone.
     
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  12. jonthefox

    jonthefox Veteran Veteran

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    So much this. I have a collection of monsters that match the default RTP style, but so many of them either aren't truly sideview (they're ambiguous), or more importantly, only skirt the line of compatibility. Like, it's the same basic style, but they still stand out as a little different compared to the RTP battlers. A perfect example would be the katakura hibiki monster packs I bought. They're nice packs, but the battlers feel slightly off in style compared to the RTP.
     
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  13. Poryg

    Poryg Dark Lord of the Castle of Javascreeps Veteran

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    @jonthefox Actually, I think even with classic rtp backgrounds they are incompatible. Because of their cartoony look, not necessarily retro look.
     
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  14. jonthefox

    jonthefox Veteran Veteran

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    Yeah...I think you're right. It's a shame, because those battlers have such a wide variety/selection.
     
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  15. Poryg

    Poryg Dark Lord of the Castle of Javascreeps Veteran

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    There are still resources to choose from though.
     
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  16. Neka Music

    Neka Music Veteran Veteran

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    MV RTP is actually great.
    However, I'm not so sure; it is the default RTP (like Harold) or the generated characters/facesets are the cause of the stigma?
    Do you think generated characters are badly stigmatized ?
     
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  17. SOC

    SOC "God is my Judge" Veteran

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    Both, but there is a very large amount of negative stigma with the generator, too. These people typically only feel pleased if everything is 100% customized, so either not using the generator at all, or only using custom made parts added to the generator from other users is acceptable to them. Even if it looks like garbage and doesn't fit or match your game at all.
     
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  18. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Jim Sterling actually had a good video this week about using premade assets that might be a good watch. Just note that he tends to not always be Pg13 if you do decide to look it up or watch it.

    But, one thing he does point out is this: Player Unknowns Battlegrounds is a lot of premade assets. Do people rip it for that? NO. So there is a good way to use premade assets, and we should keep that in mind.

    The issue is those who just take all the premades, and slap a game on them. Aka you use the default database, default characters, and the prebuilt maps, slap a story on it, and call it good. And yes, I've seen a few of those RPGMaker games...on Steam even.
     
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  19. SOC

    SOC "God is my Judge" Veteran

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    Yeah but PUBG isn't RPG Maker community, which is a whole different conversation.

    I mean, if they take all the premades and make a game out of it with the prebuilt maps and "slap" a story, is it good? Was the story good? I don't care if they do all that, I just care if it's good or not. It's probably not because it doesn't sound like they took the effort to overcome the challenges it presents, but it isn't bad because they used premade everything, it's bad because it's bad. I've always wanted to see someone make a good game with the default assets and maps but write a really good story and balance things out. That would be really cool and we could learn a lot from it as game designers.
     
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  20. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @SOC : Honestly, I'd like to try that too. Maybe as a noncommerical game, which is open to the public. Say, maybe that should be our next contest....
     
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