Neutral Element- How to Present It?

LightBorneX

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In a few games I've played, neutral element does 100% damage to basically all enemies, no strengths, no weaknesses. It's meant to be the all-arounder element. I'm interested in possibly playing with neutral as an element that seeks to neutralize other elements. This might mean that it is stronger against elements that present themselves as more strongly opposed to each other (light and dark) or the elements that might be more unstable (perhaps energy or poison). Neutral might then be weak against elements like earth that are largely stable and not known as much for causing a fuss. If you played a neutral character whose weapons actually had strong strengths and weaknesses to other elements, would you assume it lost its neutral-ness? Would it lose its point for you?

Another option for me would be making neutral like a chameleon element, where it's desire to neutralize all elements and make them one again causes it to absorb elemental powers as it is hit by them- gaining more fire resistance as it is hit by fire attacks, and turning its attack more into water damage in order to neutralize the fire. Balancing this would likely be a nightmare of a headache though, as I obviously wouldn't want people to just use one armor/element the entire game. Is this idea for neutral something that would entice you?

Overall, right now, I'm trying to figure out how to present neutral as my "order" element and void as my "chaos" element. Neutral's goal will be to get the elements melded back together. Void's goal will be to rip the elements apart. I'm satisfied with my void presentation (higher damage and higher resistance to other elements, but has chaotic times where hits heal enemies and damage hurts the player much harder), but I'm not sure how I want to present neutral, and I'm not sure I want to present it as an exact opposite of void (because having 150% weakness to all would likely get annoying).

Thoughts? What are some creative ways you would like to see neutral played with?

Note: I plan to have non-elemental as a choice for players to choose from as their birth element as well, and it will have its own storyline.
 

CG24324

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So essentially just the "normal" type from Pokemon?
There's a ton of stuff to draw from that in terms of strengths/weaknesses and moves.
 

Milennin

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Depends on different factors. Like, in Pokémon, Normal type isn't very popular because it has weaknesses (weak to fighting, resisted by rock and steel, ghost unaffected by it), but it's not strong against anything except for neutralising ghost moves. But you can put elemental moves on a Normal type unit, and vice-versa.
In other games, where you might face multiple different elements at once, a neutral type could be very useful because no matter the circumstances, they're never at a disadvantage. Even if it's not the strongest to pick for one particular area, it's always the safest type to bring.

If you played a neutral character whose weapons actually had strong strengths and weaknesses to other elements, would you assume it lost its neutral-ness? Would it lose its point for you?
It wouldn't be a true neutral type anymore, if it had strengths and weaknesses on the type chart. But it depends on how you want to define neutral. True neutral wouldn't be strong or weak against anything, but like the Pokémon version of it (Normal type) very well could. If all the other types represent the traditional elements, a "neutral" type could be something more out of the box.
I don't think a true neutral type is very interesting by itself, in an elemental weakness system, but if their skillset is nice it'd make up for it.

Is this idea for neutral something that would entice you?
Without further context, it sounds very OP in a rock/paper/scissors setting. It could work, but it'd require having mixed elemental type encounters, so you can't just bring a neutraliser and have it turn every enemy that targets it weak to it. But with enemy random targeting, it could also be frustrating if they target in the wrong order and you get screwed over by RNG. Depends on if the game has aggro mechanics or anything.

Overall, right now, I'm trying to figure out how to present neutral as my "order" element and void as my "chaos" element.
Sounds a lot like Ruler vs. Avenger class from FGO. Both are outside of the traditional weapon triangles. Ruler deals normal damage to all types while taking reduced damage from everything. So they function well as a tank, but their damage output is generally subpar. Avenger deals increased damage to all types, while taking normal damage from everything, so they're good as a damage dealer, but defensively they're not as great.
 

ATT_Turan

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You're asking for confusion and negative reactions with your terminology. If you start making it weak/strong against some other elements, that, by definition of the word, is not neutral.

Just call it whatever thing you want and have it interact with the other elements however you want. If it's explained properly in-game, it doesn't matter.
 

corvid

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Perhaps the neutral element should be referred to as something like “balance” or “equilibrium” instead, based on what you’re looking to do with it? I like the idea of it being somewhat of a chameleon-like element, but perhaps to reduce the headache this could just mean that it it is both slightly stronger against and slightly weaker to all other elements. Like, 125% against other elements yet 75% resistance against them. This way, neutral maintains its neutrality while also providing its own benefits/drawbacks to help balance the game. It will never be as strong as an opposing element, but it will never be as weak either, so it should still have some appeal for players who want to round themselves out more.
 

kairi_key

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Neutral......

I'm thinking of things like...... Neutral element is stronger against all elements, but do normal damage to itself, so the best way to fight neutral is to also be neutral.

Another idea is that maybe Neutral is more defensive as it "stabilize" element. Like, healing, or defend against all elemental magic. Or things like, the more distorted, or more element-imbued it is, the more damage can Neutral element deal. And Chaos can be the most distorted form of element by nature.

Another one is from your definition of "element-melding," which would be elemental fusion. Like, Chaos could react to element randomly and fickly, while Neutral always absorb elements.

Well, I don't know. I was kinda tired but wanna give idea anyway, lol.
 

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