New Game+ (Time Warping)

[BubbleMatrix82]

Your comment is a bit off topic but I'll respond anyways. I don't like the "without crediting them" part either but unless there's going to be a DRM for plugins or scripts to guarantee a community member's hard work isn't plagiarized as someone else's work, people are doing this. Your target audience, whether you like it or not, is 13 to 25 year olds. I know over 25's are here too, but my assumption is they are either here for the online friendships or here to learn how to make a game so they can quit their day job. The point is, your largest demographic using this are people who want to look smart and aren't afraid of doing it at the expense of plagarizing.

A community is only as good as it's most generous and altruistic contributors. 15 years ago I was a part of the RM2knet community and Squirrel was a pretty large contributor. But you have to remember that not all community members are loyal to the community. I see it all the time, especially with people who go to church; many people are atheists at the church, they just go for the free food, free babysitting, free access to "hook ups", and for something to do. So yes, you will have leaches in your community who have nothing to contribute except a game they want everyone to buy for $10 that steals everyone's ideas (they just executed it better) - that's called capitalism, sadly.

But yes, I get what you're saying, RM has always been about community, ever since the RM2KNET days even. And yes, people contribute out of passion and the desire to help others (and to prove they are great programmers to gain prestige/respect/power among peers); but in the end, someone's hard work is going to be used as someone else's free labor, and you have to be forgiving when someone steals your work when you didn't charge for it or do something to protect it.

Honestly, what Degica needs to do is run a "plugin creation contest" with an actual prize. The plugins would be owned by Degica after they are submitted, but the winner with most unique/unusual plugin should get a "prize". Then, when Degica has all the plugins compiled, they should sell the plugins as a DLC compilation and have it integrate into the RMMV to make them usable. This is the best way to bring the community together and to do some fundraising for engine updates, because to be honest, I'm not buying more charsets or music from the store; they need to entice me with more than pixels. And to tie back into this topic, if the New Game+ makes more sense as a plugin/script than an editor/engine update, then it should be number 1 on the DLC list

 

[bgillisp]

Actually, you're way off on the audience being 13 to 25. Many of our regular members are over 25 here. In fact, we have some over 40. So, you might wish to research next time.

Now back on topic...here's my thought on this. The way New Game+ works is it marks some data as persistent, as in, the data carries over into other games. What I think we need then to make this work is for the editor to allow us to set a new set of variables and switches as persistent variables and switches, which carry over all saves (or however we wish to use them). This could be used for many reasons. New Game+. Add bonus modes based on endings. Achievements. The list goes on.

So, @BubbleMatrix82 , my thought is maybe this should more specifically say add to the editor the option to have persistent variables and switches, which are accessed through all saves for that game (this would give you your new game+, add functionality to the program, and add other options too). We could block off 100 or so such variables and switches (or more?), and save the values of them into another file, which all save games can access. Want to add a bonus mode based on a switch being on? Turn it on when the player has earned it, and now since the title screen can access it, it knows it is on.

All I'd add to this is there would need to be an event command to reset all persistent switches and variables. That way if the developer wants to put a reset option into the game, they can.

From a programming standpoint, I'd suggest these just be new variables and switches, not already in the system. That way there's no marking them in editor, you just use them if you want them.

 

[Sarlecc]

From a programming standpoint, I'd suggest these just be new variables and switches, not already in the system. That way there's no marking them in editor, you just use them if you want them.

Except that for games already being worked on anything you want to be persistent you would have to change (meaning going through each event and changing what you want to be persistent). Whereas if you just store the id of a switch/variable etc that would work with games already in progress without having to change things that are already in use.

 

[bgillisp]

Either way, it has to be saved somewhere though. And honestly, anyone using this kind of feature now is using a plug-in anyways, so they'd just ignore the new variables until the next project.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

Actually, you're way off on the audience being 13 to 25. Many of our regular members are over 25 here. In fact, we have some over 40. So, you might wish to research next time.

Now back on topic...here's my thought on this. The way New Game+ works is it marks some data as persistent, as in, the data carries over into other games. What I think we need then to make this work is for the editor to allow us to set a new set of variables and switches as persistent variables and switches, which carry over all saves (or however we wish to use them). This could be used for many reasons. New Game+. Add bonus modes based on endings. Achievements. The list goes on.

So, @BubbleMatrix82 , my thought is maybe this should more specifically say add to the editor the option to have persistent variables and switches, which are accessed through all saves for that game (this would give you your new game+, add functionality to the program, and add other options too). We could block off 100 or so such variables and switches (or more?), and save the values of them into another file, which all save games can access. Want to add a bonus mode based on a switch being on? Turn it on when the player has earned it, and now since the title screen can access it, it knows it is on.

All I'd add to this is there would need to be an event command to reset all persistent switches and variables. That way if the developer wants to put a reset option into the game, they can.

From a programming standpoint, I'd suggest these just be new variables and switches, not already in the system. That way there's no marking them in editor, you just use them if you want them.

I only started using the forums last week. I was a RPG Maker MV owner for over a year before I even started to come here. The only people seeking community are the people who are taking this "game making" to the hobbyist or the "indie steam game dev" level. In other words, you are basing your entire premise of who the end user is based on a very small sample of who your target audience is from personal experience. I bought my 14 year old son a copy too and him and his friends dabble more than I do. Also, the RMN (Real Men Network - rpgmaker.net) as well as the former rm2knet was mostly 13 to 25 year olds with 25 to 45 year olds running the website and admining the forums (I'm sure not much different than here). The point is, without privacy invading demographics from Steam, we will never know without a survey, will we? I say, the product should move forward realizing who the target audience probably is and the existential reality that coders/programmers/hobbyists are very niche compared to the grand scheme of things. Because assuming that you are the majority would be the 2nd failure of the last 6 months (the first was assuming everyone was going to vote Clinton because no one would vote in a mysogynistic, xenophobic, racist, elitist jerk). So yeah, my suggestion is make the engine with kids in mind but strong enough for adults. You know, like the slogan on the main page of this website: "SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR A CHILD; POWERFUL ENOUGH FOR A DEVELOPER. --- RPG Maker MV improves every aspect of RPG creation, making it not only the latest, but also the greatest engine in the RPG Maker series to date. This version includes Multi-Platform distribution, High Definition Graphics and Resolution, MacOSX support and more! MV gives you the most power and control than any of the previous iteration!" -- Which again, implies the engine is for children who aspire to be developers; it's a branding issue, not a product issue.

Anyways, I totally support the persistent variables and switches (or as I called them carryover variables and switches). Since I saw a (albeit hacked) version of the engine using 65,554 variables, I see no reason why we can't just increase the limit of total variables and switches to accommodate this carry over. The only reason for the arbitrary limits, from what I can tell, is because the editor wanted to try to keep people within a scope of ideal size (not sure if that is content size or file size, but it was an arbitrary limit by my understanding). Actually, what would probably make even more sense is to expand the existing variable and switch DB to have higher numbers and just have a "persistent" tickbox to the right of it in the variable menu. This would tell the engine that this variable will not be reset to 0 when the game was restarted or a new game save was created in a different slot.

I'm glad you're seeing the benefit of having it at the editor/engine level. The more features we bring to the casual masses, the more unique things people can do without needing a lot of experience or programming knowledge. The biggest problem I see RMMV or RMVXA having is its narrow idea of what a JRPG is since it is antiquated based on SNES/Genesis era games.

EDIT:
One thing is though, it would need to have the "permanent" part only "permanent" if certain conditions were met. Like beating the game or being sent to the beginning of the game through a "new game plus reset" trigger. That's the hard part of this all and why I felt it needed to occur at an engine level.

 

[bgillisp]

I think there is probably an upper limit of 65,535 for number of variables and switches that are possible, just because that is 2^16 - 1. To go over that the engine would have to redo everything to be 32 bit. But then again, I can't imagine why anyone would need that many (then again, Bill Gates said 640K is enough for anyone. Remember that?).

I personally like my persistent version of variable/switches a little better just because it is more multi-use. Though maybe it can merge with yours, as in, you check the box, the value is saved in persistent_variable_01, then persistent_variable_02, and so on?

Still, was just an idea to make your idea a little more general, since the more general use the idea is, the better chance it has of actually happening (or so I'd imagine). I'm sure the dev team can figure out how to actually implement it if they do this.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

The only thing is, which I mentioned in my edit above, the permanent part should only be triggered by the new game plus option being available. We don't want to reward people who just start a new game but haven't completed it yet. Not unless that is by design of course. So there has to be an option to deny permanent variables if a certain Boolean isn't triggered first (like a beat the game Boolean or a time travel enabled). Of course some people might want to have it permanent no matter what (game beat or not) so it would have to be a customizable option to make it more general for everyone's use.

 

[bgillisp]

That could be handled by good if/else checking in the editor. That's all it should take. Would have to try to make a new game+ mode before I could say more on it though, and since this project of mine has 0 intent of having a new game+ mode (with the ending it just makes no sense story wise), maybe next project?

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

That could be handled by good if/else checking in the editor. That's all it should take. Would have to try to make a new game+ mode before I could say more on it though, and since this project of mine has 0 intent of having a new game+ mode (with the ending it just makes no sense story wise), maybe next project?

No way man, incorporate it anyways. Don't do it for story, do it for the completionist. Have an off the beaten path boss that can only be beaten with multiple play throughs.

People who love your game won't want to let go of your characters, give them a reason to stay, even if only for a little while.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

Since this idea is so unpopular, can someone point me in the direction of a plugin that does this already? Or do I have to make it myself?

Since no one wants this at the engine level, what I'm looking for is a plugin that will screenshot the beginning of the game (sans my choice of items, weapons, magic, variables, etc) and revert the game back to the way it was so players can start over with their obtained stuff and possibly make different game changing choices.

 

[ashikai]

http://yanfly.moe/2016/05/27/yep-104-new-game-rpg-maker-mv/
This might be what you're looking for.