New Game+?

[Silent Darkness]

I'm wondering, would it be possible to implement a New Game + type thing in RPG Maker?

You know, being able to play the game over, but all party member stats remain, and the enemies become much more powerful? Also, perhaps some modified maps with some interesting things.

 

[Omnimental]

Yanfly has already made a script that does just that:

http://yanflychannel.wordpress.com/rmvxa/menu-scripts/ace-save-engine/new-game/

 

[Silent Darkness]

Yanfly has already made a script that does just that:

http://yanflychannel.wordpress.com/rmvxa/menu-scripts/ace-save-engine/new-game/

Sweet. Thanks, man.

 

[Omnimental]

Always happy to help when I can.

 

[orochii]

So is this a game mechanic design discussion or a script request?

===

Basically all you need to make a NewGame+ feature is

- passing the entire $game_actors and $game_party objects instead of creating new ones (title screen/new game startup code). This is the most essential step.

- making sure that the "initialize" checkbox in the "Change party member" doesn't works in a NewGame+ (interpreter's command_129).

- resetting the initial group.

- optional: saving some switches and/or variables from the previous game, if you want some stuff to be affected by previous plays.

Of course all of this involves scripting.

===

Now what do you people think of NewGame+? Surely, a lot of people seem to like it. But it doesn't has much meaning by itself, except if your game involves something like multiple endings or a lot of items that you can lose the chance of obtaining. I think that's a good part of it. It's a completionist's tool. It's made to lighten the burden of replaying the whole game (no grind!).

What do you people think about it?

OZ

 

[Eschaton]

I think its sort of both.

Either way, I approve, but you should put NG+ in your game only if there is content to return to.  If your game is a railroaded narrative, and the player character only has one class and no customization options, then there's no point. 

Its supposed to be an opportunity for the player to see different aspects of the story, and to play the game in a different manner or style.

 

[deilin]

There are a few game save+ scripts... some require engines like yanfly, others don't.

Check the scripts area.

 

[Silent Darkness]

So is this a game mechanic design discussion or a script request?

===

Basically all you need to make a NewGame+ feature is

- passing the entire $game_actors and $game_party objects instead of creating new ones (title screen/new game startup code). This is the most essential step.

- making sure that the "initialize" checkbox in the "Change party member" doesn't works in a NewGame+ (interpreter's command_129).

- resetting the initial group.

- optional: saving some switches and/or variables from the previous game, if you want some stuff to be affected by previous plays.

Of course all of this involves scripting.

===

Now what do you people think of NewGame+? Surely, a lot of people seem to like it. But it doesn't has much meaning by itself, except if your game involves something like multiple endings or a lot of items that you can lose the chance of obtaining. I think that's a good part of it. It's a completionist's tool. It's made to lighten the burden of replaying the whole game (no grind!).

What do you people think about it?

OZ

I guess it was erring more on the side of a script request. I have got to remember that there is a place for things like that

I think its sort of both.

Either way, I approve, but you should put NG+ in your game only if there is content to return to.  If your game is a railroaded narrative, and the player character only has one class and no customization options, then there's no point. 

Its supposed to be an opportunity for the player to see different aspects of the story, and to play the game in a different manner or style.

I'm intending SOMETHING like that. Maybe a bit more :3 Like an expansion hidden within the New Game+. Two choices for someone who already beat the game once. Either replay the original story with more difficult stuff and some surprises, or move on to the expansion areas(which will be locked normally).

 

[Eschaton]

I'm intending SOMETHING like that. Maybe a bit more :3 Like an expansion hidden within the New Game+. Two choices for someone who already beat the game once. Either replay the original story with more difficult stuff and some surprises, or move on to the expansion areas(which will be locked normally).

Okay, well my question here is why can't you play these areas the first time around?

 

[Silent Darkness]

Because they're expressly designed in a way that you will die if you're going straight off of a fresh game.

 

[Eschaton]

So, why can't I just grind before going in?  Or why can't I go in later in the game?  Why do I have to restart?

This is the scrutiny that the NG+ mechanic has to face.  There has to be a damn good reason to go back a second time.

 

[Silent Darkness]

You don't HAVE to replay the original campaign with the new game+ crud, if you don't want to. As for the expansion, well....storyline reasons.

 

[Omnimental]

I think New Game + is best for a second run on a higher difficult.  Additional content that works for the world but would be disruptive or distracting would be a good unlock as well.

And, of course, if there's multiple endings, NG+ is a must.

 

[Tai_MT]

You can actually do a New Game + without a script, but it's massively tedious to program.  Teleport the character back to the start of the game upon completion, reset all your switches, reset all your variables, reset anything else you don't want them to have, then the game starts over.

It is seriously massively tedious to program though (I did it once in a 15 minute game just to see if it could be done... took a grand total of 8 hours to hammer out everything I wanted to reset).

To be honest, I've always wondered why people used the "New Game Plus" feature to try to extend their game.  No, I don't mean, extend the playtime value.  I mean, using it as a freakin' brick wall to block players off from content until they've beaten the game once.  I've always thought this was kind of silly.  Why not include content in the game the serves the same purpose without the New Game Plus mode if that's what you want?  It's not hard to simply implement harder monsters and harder areas in the game for those close to the end.  It's also not hard to create unlockable areas within the game that only open up once you reach certain stats or levels.  Why lock off any new content behind the New Game Plus wall at all?  It doesn't need to be behind that wall.

The point of a New Game + is to play through the game again, making different decisions, or collecting things you missed while using your levels and stats to easily breeze through most of the content.  In Chrono Trigger, it's used for exactly that, to make choices you didn't make before.  It's there to let you obtain endings you didn't on the first playthrough or the second or third playthrough.  It's also there to let you make different choices on which loot to pick up at certain instances.  Oh, and the other reason it's there?  Help you max out your characters and obtain more of the most powerful (but really limited) equipment.

In Mass Effect, that is the same point of the "New Game Plus".  It's there to let you make new decisions if you want, continue exploring, continue getting more powerful.  The only content locked off behind the "New Game Plus" wall in the first Mass Effect is the ability to get to level 60 instead of being level 50.

If you're locking off entire sections of your game and require a second playthrough to even access them, your game is going to be somewhat frustrating to players.  Hell, I get frustrated when the hardest difficulty is locked behind the wall of "beat the game once".  Why is this content not just available from the start?  On top of which, locking off this content doesn't guarantee players will go find it or complete it.  If your game was boring and players hated the first playthrough, they're not going to play through it again just to experience all the locked off content.  It's a gamble when you do things like that.

Basically, only include New Game Plus if you want a kind of "cheat mode" for the game after you've already beaten it, or if you want players to explore different things than they explored the first time.  Otherwise... it's kind of silly to have it just to lock content behind it.

 

[Silent Darkness]

It's not so much content that would be locked off. You wouldn't even realize it was there until the first playthrough is done. The content would appear on the original campaign with New Game+.

Besides, you should have to beat the game once before doing the expansion anyways imo.

 

[Tai_MT]

To me, that makes little sense.  Why should I have to beat the game once just to have the delight of plaything through it again to access content that by the time I get to it, I will realize could have been done in the first playthrough if not for you locking it behind a wall.  Unless your "expansion" is truly an expansion, it's just locked content that doesn't need to be locked until New Game Plus.  By "expansion", I mean, the game continues after the end of the game and expands upon the events of it.  If it's just going to be stuff that's locked off for no reason other than you want it to be...  Then that gets sort of frustrating for players like me.

See, I like to be able to access everything on a single playthrough because there's no guarantee I'll play through it again to just find the extra 3 hours of content that were missing because some dev decided they should be.  I'll get to the content with only slightly better stats and maybe another level or two under my belt and just go, "huh, I could've just done this the first time through the game if it had just let me..."  I mean, unless you're giving out equipment for beating the game and that equipment is the only way to actually fight anything in these areas because the stuff is so powerful...  Which, I doubt you are.

Actually, I know what my issue with this is.  It's the same issue I have with most any game these days.  Unlockable Content is seldom worth the hassle to get it.  Fighting games?  Yeah, reward is clothing I care nothing about and does nothing for combat.  Shooters?  Usually guns I won't use, new levels I don't care about, or the hardest difficulty setting which should have been available from the start.  Unlockable content needs to be worth the time invested to unlock it.  Quite often, it just isn't.

 

[Eschaton]

Be careful with post-game content.  This is the RM community.  Once the final boss is dead, the game is over to them.

 

[Silent Darkness]

Yes, it is ACTUALLY an expansion. With storyline, and all that jazz.

 

[Scythuz]

I'm not sure how easy this would be to implement, but, it sounds like you should consider just having the new game + and expansion parts as separate options on the menu rather than trying to keep them together and potentially causing problems.  This could be a good compromise for both sides of the argument don't you think?

That being said... it is your game and you very well might find (or already have in mind) a really good way to implement your current idea.  If that's the case, go for it.

 

[BigEd781]

I think its sort of both.

Either way, I approve, but you should put NG+ in your game only if there is content to return to.  If your game is a railroaded narrative, and the player character only has one class and no customization options, then there's no point. 

Its supposed to be an opportunity for the player to see different aspects of the story, and to play the game in a different manner or style.

I don't agree with that. It's fun to start a new game with some bonuses, many games do it which fall into the "railroad narrative" bucket. Take Chrono Trigger for example.  There's nothing new to do aside from killing Lavos super early, but it's still fun to run through the game all suped-up.