New RPG Maker coming soon? What do you think?

TheoAllen

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And, last time I checked, it did have a z-axis, so it's definitely 3D.
And Z-axis also exists in VXAce or 2D engine in general for sprite layering (which one being drawn on top of each other). That doesn't make it 3D.

Hey, the thread is about making a 3D RPG maker. You can do that with MV3D, so it's definitely worth discussing IMO, even if it's not the Creation Kit, Blender, Unity or Unreal. The point isn't to make RPG Maker into one of those, as that would be completely opposed to the goals of this franchise.
The 3D achieved by MV3D is the same as the 3D effect you get from Doom 1 & 2. It's pseudo3D. In which every sprite is still in 2D. No model, and it really just Mode 7 but slightly better. How to make it looks good still needs a lot of work. And I believe 3D achieved by this effect is just for a specific niche than 2D general.
 

Cormorant42

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Models are literally coming in the next update, as I said in my original post. We already have skyboxes, real-time shadows & sunlight, ambient lighting/point lamps, camera collision, etc...it definitely deserves more credit than you're giving it, but maybe the inclusion of 3D models will change your mind.

The 3D achieved by MV3D is the same as the 3D effect you get from Doom 1 & 2. It's pseudo3D.
First, even though the visual aesthetic can similar to Doom 1 & 2, maps made in MV3D are actually rendered in three dimensions with the player sprite as a flat shadow-casting object; so it's not *actually* pseudo3D. Granted, it's similar, but it's taking big steps towards the kind of thing you're expecting.

While currently non-environment graphics are sprite-based, games made with MV3D actually have more 3D capability than Doom 1 & 2 due to the extensive camera controls that are available. It has orthographic & perspective modes, 1st person and 3rd person, free/fixed camera rotation, and more.

My point is that MV3D is already very similar to what they were discussing in the original post as-is, and it'll be almost exactly what they described once models are a feature.
 

Creative Ed

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Hey, the thread is about making a 3D RPG maker.
Well, not really, that's just something I brought up as a possibility :)
The thing with MV3D, although brilliant for what it achieves, it's not really 3D, it's more like paper folding. Even if they end up implementing 3D I suspect it either will make it really slow or have underwelming results. I'm completely prepared to be proven wrong though :p

You haven't answered the problem pointed out by Andar.
@TheoAllen I work a lot with 3D and often experiment with various game engines, there are some common practices that are often used to circumvent the problems you brought up.

Just to answer to your initial questions:

Basically what you do to make an engine do both 2D and 3D, it's do it actually all in 3D. However, the way you make it look like 2D is, you just render everything in an ortographic view. You're able to put sprites or images as well like before, but they are treated like textures to 3D planes. So you can easily achieve a 2D look this way, while the engine itself is actually 3D. Engines that allow both 2D and 3D already do this.

Just because you allow more asset types doesn't mean there couldn't be a standard to follow. Kadokawa would just create assets as normal to the standard sizes etc. I mean, it's pretty much like that already. In MV the graphics you buy or the ones that come on the RTP all have the same sizes, but you can double their size or triple or whatever you want really. You can change the game's resolution and have much bigger sprites than the ones provided by Degica. Don't see anyone asking for 4k sprites. Just follow the established standards, people will do their own thing if they feel confortable enough to do it.

The code would work about the same way, you wouldn't have to really do a 2D and 3D version for each plugin because everything is actually 3D, except you can disguise it as 2D. I'm not saying it wouldn't present its challenges, I'm certain it would, but it's far from being unmanageable.

I don't think it would really affect the ease of use of the program, at least not that much. As long they keep the same logic as the programs before, it should be alright. Movement can still be tile based, messages would work the same way, switches, variables, custom move routes would be the same since it would still be tile based.

Regarding how the default assets would be made, you've got a good point. I think the best would be going with 2D characters and textures for 3D environments. But I admit it might be tricky to find something that could satisfy all. Good thing about this for them, is they'd probably make a lot of money selling DLC assets.

So yeah, it's not about toggling 2D and suddenly the whole behaviour of the program changes, it's just pretty much all about camera trickery.

I'm intrigued by this claim. Any proof I could follow?
Yeah I'll send it to you no problem :)

AFAIK, the console version of RM is already in 3D, so why not wondering why they didn't port it to PC?
Probably because some of the points you brought up, but also I think at the time they made those, since they were programmed for playstation, I'm guessing a good port might be pretty hard to achieve, or just not worth the effort since they're very outdated.
 
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Raizen

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Well I've read the entire discussion here, I'll give my 2 cents. I still think its unlikely this switch from the engine to 3d, not because its essentially that much harder to work with models, it isn't, and yeah I understand the point that 3d engines can use the same renderizing for 2d, because they can. I think the focus for RPG Maker was always the most casual makers even though we can do some pretty cool stuff for those who go deep in the engine/code.
For those makers, RTP IS what makes RPG Maker sells as it sells, not wanting to lose the 2d rpg market where RPG Maker basically dominates that niche, they would need to double the RTP for both sprites and models, and that I am not that sure they are willing to do. It would also mean, it would try to compete with Unity/Unreal, I'm not sure the amount of extra work for the engine would compensate that.
This was also reflected on all products they released with VN, Pixel MV.... Keeping the focus on what they are already good at, and they know will exist for many years to come, seems more safe to me. Like I said, I don't think its impossible, it just doesn't look financially good to expand in that way, also there are a bunch of things MV could do better and they can bring that with a new RPG Maker.

Things like, easier export to iOS/Android, portability to consoles, update PIXI to v5, better core code (MV is pretty messy to read and work on), new RTP (well like always, and that also sells the engine).

For me, I don't really care if they go 3d, I usually dislike 99% of 3d indie games, I feel they look like outdated AAA games, but this is my opinion as a gamer. So I usually only focus on 2d indie games even for playing, but if they gave that extra option with three.js or babylon.js already on its core, I would likely receive it as long as they keep the same amount of RTP sprites/images for 2d games.
 

Dororo

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I'm quite new to the thing, but what I'm expecting for a next release:

  • Obviously, a tech boost.
  • A "mode selector" to determine the graphical mode: GB, NES, SNES, PS1.
  • Merging RPGMAKER and VNMaker.
  • Something about a pixelart editor AND/OR a midi editor shipped in.
  • An interface editor.
  • An action adventure mode.
  • A LOT of what are now just plugins shipped within the core.

The second point will be quite interesting, you'll probably drag in a lot of --Thyrano--builder and Renpy people that lament lack of gameplay features in those engines.

I'm not against 3D, but if you don't deliver an editor too, modeling and rigging is quite out of reach for the average, casual indie dev.
 
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