Newly-created tilesets allow boats to go over A2 ground tiles

quackgyver

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Scenario:
I just created a completely new tileset ("Zoo") in the Database editor, and gave it the exact same tile images, parameters and settings as an already-existing tileset ("Outdoors") that was created back when the project was first created.
I've gone through all of the bush, ladder, counter, terrain tag- and passage collision settings several times in order to make sure that the new tileset ("Zoo") matches the existing tileset ("Outdoors") in every way.

Issue:
Despite both tilesets being completely identical, with the newly-created tileset ("Zoo"), boats can for some reason go over A2 ground tiles, while with the old tileset ("Outdoors") boats work as intended.

Example:
Here you can see an example of a duplicated map, where the only difference between them is the fact that Map #1 uses the newly-created tileset ("Zoo") while Map #2 uses the older tileset ("Outdoors").
boatbug.gif

Configuration:
For additional context, here you can see how the A1 and A2 tiles are set up.
Screen_Shot_2021-07-23_at_21.04.05.pngScreen_Shot_2021-07-23_at_23.55.42.png

And here you can see how both of the tilesets are completely identical.
tilesets.gif

I also took the entire tileset as-is from the tile picker and just placed it over the map. Same issue though.
boatprob2.gif

Troubleshooting:
  • All plugins have been completely disabled.
  • There are no invisible tiles overlaying any parts of the maps.
  • The problem applies to both boats and ships.
  • I have no event that gives the player the "Through"-property, or in any other way messes with the player- or vehicle parameters.
  • I've tried creating new tilesets multiple times, but the issue still applies in that only old tilesets that were created back when I first created the project respect boat collisions.
  • The boat still stops when colliding with waterfalls, water rocks or deep water.

I've tried troubleshooting this for quite some time, so it would be great to get some help figuring out what's wrong.

Thanks in advance!
 

Andar

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The boat/ship passability is index-based, you cannot change it with the tileset settings directly.
That basically means that the ship/boat will always travel over those tiles that were water tiles in the original A1 tileset, no matter what new picture you gave them in the tilesheet.

the only exception to this is an inverse passability reaction of the boat. If you make a water-tile passable in the tileset so that the actors can walk there, it becomes impassable for the boat, and if you make it impassable to the actor then it becomes passable to the boat.

but basically if you want to use animated tiles for ground instead of water, you'll need a plugin to change the behaviour

Oh - and you cannot use partial tilesheets, you have to use full size tilesheets or the engine messes up a lot. If you don't have the tiles for full sheets yet, make the rest up as transparent tiles but never use tilesheets smaller than intended.
 

quackgyver

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The boat/ship passability is index-based, you cannot change it with the tileset settings directly.
That basically means that the ship/boat will always travel over those tiles that were water tiles in the original A1 tileset, no matter what new picture you gave them in the tilesheet.

the only exception to this is an inverse passability reaction of the boat. If you make a water-tile passable in the tileset so that the actors can walk there, it becomes impassable for the boat, and if you make it impassable to the actor then it becomes passable to the boat.

but basically if you want to use animated tiles for ground instead of water, you'll need a plugin to change the behaviour

Oh - and you cannot use partial tilesheets, you have to use full size tilesheets or the engine messes up a lot. If you don't have the tiles for full sheets yet, make the rest up as transparent tiles but never use tilesheets smaller than intended.
Thanks, but I don't see how any of this applies to my situation? You can clearly see in the attached images that I'm using water tiles for water and ground tiles for ground, and that the passability is set correctly for boats and ships.
 

Andar

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then please show us the tilesheets themselves (not the database page for the tileset, but the tillesheets for A1 and A2 themselves.
additionally, which version is your editor?
and how exactly are your steps for testing (which button to press etc)? You should especially make sure that you don't have the ctrl key stuck on a defective keyboard as that is the passability override in playtest.
 

quackgyver

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then please show us the tilesheets themselves (not the database page for the tileset, but the tillesheets for A1 and A2 themselves.
You can easily determine where the line between A1 and A2 goes in my tileset just by looking at the screenshots. Images aren't needed for that.

However, here they are:

zoo_a1.pngzoo_a2.png

Even if something was wrong with the images, that still doesn't explain why two different tilesets that use the exact same images are without fail seeing entirely different collision effects.

additionally, which version is your editor?
I'm using version 1.6.2.

and how exactly are your steps for testing (which button to press etc)? You should especially make sure that you don't have the ctrl key stuck on a defective keyboard as that is the passability override in playtest.
Again, I'm consistently having the two tilesets behave differently in terms of collision. If I had a broken keyboard or if I held down playtesting debug keys, the two tilesets wouldn't behave differently without fail.
 

Andar

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Again, I'm consistently having the two tilesets behave differently in terms of collision. If I had a broken keyboard or if I held down playtesting debug keys, the two tilesets wouldn't behave differently without fail.
That is not the only reason why I asked, that were only examples.
please tell us exactly which button you pressed and how you tested as there are still a number of other causes that you could make wrong, including causing the different effects.

And a question that I had forgotten: if you go to game - open folder while your game is open in the editor, can you check whether or not the folder that opens has a subfolder named www?
 

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the only reason I can think off, is zoo_B tile upper left corner blank and a STAR.
because this can cause breaking tilesets form others probably as well.

but its really weird because I use 1.6.1 stand alone, steam 1.6.2 because cant downgrade
that one, but not using it at this point.

but I didn't encounter this issue at all, it's weird. so even if you check the X and O,
are the arrows also indentical? but my hunch is the B tilesheet not a STAR.

if it is, than it's really weird, but does the same thing happen in a clean project?
 

Andar

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the only reason I can think off, is zoo_B tile upper left corner blank and a STAR.
because this can cause breaking tilesets form others probably as well.
unfortunately that tile has been fixed to star in 1.3 or 1.4, it is impossible for him to have that problem (which is why I asked for the editor version).

but I can think of a few other options, that is why I asked the other questions.
 

quackgyver

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That is not the only reason why I asked, that were only examples.
please tell us exactly which button you pressed and how you tested as there are still a number of other causes that you could make wrong, including causing the different effects.
I use my mouse cursor to click on the "Playtest"-button, and then I play my game.
And a question that I had forgotten: if you go to game - open folder while your game is open in the editor, can you check whether or not the folder that opens has a subfolder named www?
I'm not sure what folder you're referring to. What path do you want me to check?

the only reason I can think off, is zoo_B tile upper left corner blank and a STAR.
because this can cause breaking tilesets form others probably as well.

but its really weird because I use 1.6.1 stand alone, steam 1.6.2 because cant downgrade
that one, but not using it at this point.

but I didn't encounter this issue at all, it's weird. so even if you check the X and O,
are the arrows also indentical? but my hunch is the B tilesheet not a STAR.
Like Andar explained above, the first tile is a forced star.
if it is, than it's really weird, but does the same thing happen in a clean project?
No. I actually used a clean RTP project to test and build my water tiles, in order to make sure that everything worked correctly.

So these new tile images were built using a clean RTP project, and were then copied into my main game project to be used in a new tileset.
 

Andar

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and then I play my game.
and how do you do that, because that is impossible - the playtest button only gets you to the title screen, and you can't play the game on the title screen.
you need to click on at least one additional button, and I wanted to know which buttons you press.


I'm not sure what folder you're referring to.
exactly the folder that opens when you click on that button in the editor.
and there MUST NOT be a www folder - if there is a www folder there it means that you damaged your project, and I would have to tell you how to repair it to make the playtest function correctly again (with the www folder there the playtest is damaged and redirected)

So these new tile images were built using a clean RTP project, and were then copied into my main game project to be used in a new tileset.
how and what files did you copy?
and can you please do the test with a clean project as you were asked before, because copying can cause filedamage and the error could have happened after one such copy.


I can't count the number of cases where someone with a problem answered questions from memory ony to learn later that the memory was wrong ("but I never used xy..." - "sorry, I forgot that I tested that in another event") or other similar effects. That is why we always ask to check anew.
 

quackgyver

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and how do you do that, because that is impossible - the playtest button only gets you to the title screen, and you can't play the game on the title screen.
you need to click on at least one additional button, and I wanted to know which buttons you press.
If you're trying to understand whether I pick "New game" or "Load game" then the answer is "New game". The correct map loads up following that, since I've set the player's starting position in the test map.
exactly the folder that opens when you click on that button in the editor.
and there MUST NOT be a www folder - if there is a www folder there it means that you damaged your project, and I would have to tell you how to repair it to make the playtest function correctly again (with the www folder there the playtest is damaged and redirected)
Ah I see.
Yeah, my game's source folder has no www folder, so Playtesting seems to work as it should.
how and what files did you copy?
Outside_A1.png
Outside_A2.png
Outside_A3.png
Outside_A4.png
Outside_A5.png
Outside_B.png
Outside_C.png

And then Outside_C.png was copied again to create Outside_D and Outside_E.

Following that, all the images were renamed to:

zoo_a1.png
zoo_a2.png
zoo_a3.png
zoo_a4.png
zoo_a5.png
zoo_b.png
zoo_c.png
zoo_d.png
zoo_e.png

and can you please do the test with a clean project as you were asked before, because copying can cause filedamage and the error could have happened after one such copy.
Yeah, but the issue is not related to the image file, because it's reproducible independently of whatever tileset images that are used.

The "Zoo"-tileset images were created based on an RTP tileset, but it's the process of creating a blank tileset in the Database manager that causes this problem to occur - regardless of what tileset image that is actually used in that tileset.

For example, I can reproduce the issue in a newly-created RTP project using any tileset:

rtptest2.gifrtptest.gif

The steps to reproduce are:

1. Create a new project.
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 17.23.15.png

2. In the Database manager, expand the list of tilesets to an arbitrary number that is longer than the current number. For the sake of testing, increase it from the original 6 sets to 20 sets total.
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 17.23.54.png

3. Rename the last set to "TEST" and load in the tileset images of choice. For the sake of testing, reuse the same tileset images as the default tileset "#0002 Outside".
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 17.27.19.png

4. Make sure that water collisions in "#0020 TEST" are the same as in one of the default tilesets. For the sake of testing, copy the water collisions from the default tileset "#0002 Outside".
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 17.28.34.png
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 17.29.53.png

#5. Now, create a map using the tileset "#0002 Outside" and make sure that it has a boat in a pool of water, as well as a starting point for the player.
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 18.07.26.png

#6. Playtest the map to ensure that boat- and water collisions work as expected.
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 18.07.42.png

#7. Now, in the map settings of the map that you just created, change the tileset from "#0002 Outside" to "#0020 TEST".
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 18.19.43.png

#8. Playtest the game again, and this time - if you're getting the same bug as I keep encountering - you'll be able to use your boat on dry land.
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 18.08.32.png

I can't count the number of cases where someone with a problem answered questions from memory ony to learn later that the memory was wrong ("but I never used xy..." - "sorry, I forgot that I tested that in another event") or other similar effects. That is why we always ask to check anew.
I agree that it's good to thoroughly troubleshoot, but as I said in my original post, the factor that causes the issue to occur is whether I'm using one of the original tilesets that came with the project, or a new one.

So as far as troubleshooting goes, we can remove the images from the equation and focus more on the tileset data.
 

Andar

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If you're trying to understand whether I pick "New game" or "Load game"
exactly, because the current map is saved into the savegames, and loading an old savefile can get you playing o an old map (and old tileset) until you leave and return to the map (all maps are reloaded on entering)
So as far as troubleshooting goes, we can remove the images from the equation and focus more on the tileset data.
yes - but your original phrasing could have been read as if you not only copied the picture files (which cannot influcence passability at all), but also the tileset json files - and I needed clarification on that.

For example, I can reproduce the issue in a newly-created RTP project using any tileset:
and with your step-by-step I could reproduce the error in one of my scrap projects.
and that makes this somethign very different...

@Archeia can you please check? I know MV is now legacy, but that is a rather strange and big bug that should be adressed...
 

quackgyver

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and with your step-by-step I could reproduce the error in one of my scrap projects.
and that makes this somethign very different...

@Archeia can you please check? I know MV is now legacy, but that is a rather strange and big bug that should be adressed...
My hope was that there was just something I was missing in regards to how vehicle collisions work.

If this is a bug then I'd consider it a pretty huge one, since it basically means that you can't use vehicles in any map outside of the default ones, unless you know how to apply the hackish workaround of first copying an original tileset and then modifying it.
 

Archeia

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@Archeia can you please check? I know MV is now legacy, but that is a rather strange and big bug that should be adressed...

Sorry, but any bug fix officially from KADOKAWA towards MV is impossible with MZ out. There will no longer be any fixes so there's really nothing we can do... :rswt
 

Andar

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@Archeia I just tested, the same error happens in MZ...
 

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Well, I have no idea why, but the only way for you to fix this is copy a default tileset and just set your custom graphic there.


@quackgyver Doing it this way fixed it for me maybe it will help you?
 
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Andar

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@quackgyver
please follow this link to an explanation on how to repair the tileset on MZ, perhaps it also works on MV:
 

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