Nintendo shuts down Pokemon Essentials

Discussion in 'General Lounge' started by FleshToDust, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. FleshToDust

    FleshToDust Pixel Beginnings Veteran

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    #1
  2. ShinGamix

    ShinGamix DS Style 4Ever! Veteran

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    And this begins the fall of Nintendo as it drives it loyal followers away.
     
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  3. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Well, I find this line interesting:

    some communities are discussing how to keep a lower online profile while continuing to share their love of game creation with other like-minded people.

    You know how you do that? You make your OWN IP. Don't copy others, just make your own. That is how you share your love of game creation.
     
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  4. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    Pokemon essentials was always illegal because of the use of ripped resources, that is also why it was never spported here.
    There are better ways to create fangames than to steal pictures from the original games, if they had used their own pictures done outside of copyrighted material they might have survived.

    Most fangames get shutdown either because of ripped resources (stealing original pictures from the games), which could have been prevented by having artists make new pictures to use, or because of trademark infringment (you need to call a fangame something different than the orginal trademarked name to prevent that).

    Just for your info: someone has tried to make a "monster essentials" for MV here on this forum, asking for help from artists and coders to make something similiar without using ripped resources. And he didn't get far because there wasn't much interest.
    But that would have been the correct way to proceed, and that he didn't get far is (in my opinion) the best proof that those who try to play or try to make fangames are doing so because they are either too lazy or too unimaginative to get their own story out.
     
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  5. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Lion/Fox Hybrid Veteran

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    I also shut down my FE Essentials because of this, as well as SRPG Studio being released, which did the job the project was supposed to do anyway.
     
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  6. FleshToDust

    FleshToDust Pixel Beginnings Veteran

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    The main site used for those fangames also doesn't seem to work(at least for me).
    Tough times, though I prescribed to the idea that Pokemon Uranium shouldn't of been a fangame but their own game idea as the game took something like 8 years to make. Why spend 8 years making something that isn't yours?

    @JtheDuelist Ah you moved to SRPG Studio? It does what you want? Good to hear. I'm really liking what I'm seeing from that engine.
     
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  7. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Lion/Fox Hybrid Veteran

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    I've currently got the demo since I can't afford the full version until November.
     
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  8. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I've moved this thread to General Lounge. Please be sure to post your threads in the correct forum next time. Thank you.

     
    #8
  9. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Do you really mean to imply that no one should try and protect their IP? That to say "hey, that's stolen from me, and you shouldn't do it" is such an appalling thing that people will no longer buy their products?
     
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  10. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    And let's not forget in some countries they HAVE to sue once they learn of copywrite and/or trademark infringement, or it is weakened (and in some cases now invalid) and it is either harder to defend or cannot be defended anymore, depending on the case and the country. So if they want to protect their IP, it's shut down all fan games and products once they learn of it, or else give up the IP completely.
     
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  11. FleshToDust

    FleshToDust Pixel Beginnings Veteran

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    Sega supports Sonic fangames.
     
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  12. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    And that is their choice. But it also means their trademark and copywrite is weakened a lot too in some countries if they suddenly decide to enforce it.
     
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  13. SwiftSign

    SwiftSign Veteran Veteran

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    It’s a real shame this was shutdown, I believe the reason people liked/used it was because it was the closest to ROM hacking as could be but with much more flexible programming. Lots of work was put into it, Pokemon stuff aside, so that’s a shame.

    It would be great to see someone make a resource that was similar, without specifically being Pokemon. Monster Essentials didn’t quite seem to be that... but maybe one will spring up that fills the void.
     
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  14. MMMm

    MMMm Veteran Veteran

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    If they're going to invest the hundreds of hours to make something like this happen, then they need to just scrub the Pokemon name off of it and move on.

    They can just scrape the serial numbers off the pokemon! We ALL know that a frog monster with flowers growing out of its back is supposed to be Bulbasaur, but if your game can't continue to exist and will get taken down for using that name, then you don't call it Bulbasaur, nor do you use the design. Change the colors! Make it a toad instead.

    If it's different enough, everyone still gets the Pokemon experience but without any risk of your project being destroyed.
     
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  15. Jayje

    Jayje The First Maker Veteran

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    **points to signature** ahem!
     
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  16. Traverse

    Traverse Veteran Veteran

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    This is old news by now. It's already been known since the beginning of the week and widely covered on a whole bunch of gaming news sites.

    There's no argument to be had over whether Nintendo had the right to do it (obviously they do), the main question has been why Nintendo would only now bother going after a tool they've avoided for a whole decade and the only real answers seem to be that either they have something like a Pokemon-maker in the works (maybe some Pokemon-themed DLC for the upcoming MV Trinity release on Switch) or they never treated it as a serious problem until the release of Pokemon Uranium lit up their detector like a nuclear launch.

    I've seen all the common argument about "well, they packaged ripped assets and had Pokemon in the title so it's their fault" which utterly ignores the fact that certain other wikis and fansites hosting huge quantities of ripped graphics with "Pokemon" in their titles have still been allowed to stay open. Clearly it wasn't just the rips or the use of the Pokemon name alone that had it targeted but because it had code to make a game packaged together with it, even if that code itself wasn't ripped or infringing.

    Generalizing this as simply "Nintendo protecting their IP" is overly dismissive of the fact that this wasn't just protecting their IP in general but Nintendo stopping people from making fangames. Specifically -fangames-, not just hosting rips and sprites of official assets.

    Yes, it well may be a stance they have always adopted since the beginning of time, but there's no point in pretending it's anything less specific.

    This also disregards that the whole point of Pokemon Essentials being a way to make Pokemon fangames. Not a Digimon fangame, not a Yokai Watch fangame, not your generic monster-catching Fakemon fangame but Pokemon fangames.

    You can deride the people who want to make Pokemon fangames as "lazy" or "copycats" or "morally wrong" or misguided all you like, but at the end of the day, most of those fangame makers (at least the ones using Essentials - the ones behind paid phone games like Pocket Master are a different story) are mainly doing it because they are fans of Pokemon and for little other reason.

    There's no point in pretending the kit was ever made for anything broader than to indulge fans of Pokemon who wanted to make fangames of the series, so suggesting they could've gone generic is fairly laughable and perhaps almost insulting to those Pokemon fans.

    And no, before anybody tries to jump down my throat, I'm not one of them. I don't make Pokemon fangames. I enjoy myself a bit of Pokemon, but I have never used Pokemon Essentials to make anything in my life nor did I even realize it was even still around prior to Uranium getting released.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
    #16
  17. ChampX

    ChampX Veteran Veteran

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    Nintendo shutting down Pokemon Essentials does not surprise me one bit. While other companies are more open to fan games, one thing people need to keep in mind is Nintendo is far bigger than most companies out there on top of Nintendo also wanting to portray a certain image about their franchises, especially Pokemon. Nintendo has worked very hard to have it be common knowledge in the public globally that Pokemon and other franchises are family friendly thus anything that has the potential to threaten that image they will most certainly go after. In other words, 8 year old Timmy may find a Pokemon fan-game that is about using the Pokemon to go around committing murder or something else not "family friendly". Because he hasn't been around for long, he may assume that game is an official Pokemon game. His mom may come along, someone who doesn't know much about video games and especially not fan games, will see her son playing a non "family friendly" fan game of Pokemon and assume it is official as well. This will upset her and go against all notions of her being taught Pokemon is family friendly and then she will voice herself to others and it could spread like wildfire. This will damage their brand and Nintendo certainly is not going to want that so that's why they do not want people making fan-games. They want control over their franchise to ensure it is pertaining to all values they intend to set. It does not matter if the fan-games make zero money, as all damage isn't necessarily monetary.

    We should also remember that Pokemon is the highest grossing media franchise of all time.
     
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  18. Haydeos

    Haydeos The Dragon Veteran

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    Pretty much just this. Full Stop.

    Being a fan of the franchise is inconsequential in this instance. I'm a pokemon fan, I just played through Fire Red again. I get inspiration for pokemon games myself, but I don't try to make one because it's not my IP. Also, based on the fan games that I've seen, the ratio to well made games to poorly made games certainly implies that yes, the creators are too lazy to make their own assets.

    Making a bad fan-game is insulting to the source material, in my opinion. Even with the best intentions.
     
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  19. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Or you get some who just don't care. I remember playing a Quest for Glory fan game that advertised itself as having the stuff that Sierra didn't have the guts to put in their game. Let's just say it read like a poorly written 12 year old story.

    Scratch that, there are probably 12 year olds who could write better than that.
     
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  20. Traverse

    Traverse Veteran Veteran

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    That bit was directed to the suggestion that many people (everywhere, not just here but other sites this news was on) were making about how Essentials could just scrub the assets and go generic, which is stupid.

    In terms of legality (and for some people, morality) whether you are a fan or otherwise is inconsequential to how wrong or right it is - but it doesn't take a genius to realize that if someone is trying to make a fan game, legality or making a fresh IP is going to be just as inconsequential to them too. They don't want a fresh IP or originality, they just want Pokemon. If they wanted generic, they'd just use RMXP without the Essentials. They don't - they use Pokemon Essentials for the Pokemon, so suggesting to get rid of the Pokemon is obviously a non-option for these people.
     
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