No mana magic systems?

[bifronz]

So I'm working on an idea for a game that would replace mana with a cast time system(?). Basically the idea is that a spell would require a character to have so much "focus" which is generating through a "focus" skill. The deal is you cant just fill up your focus. If you cast a spell that cost less than your current focus it will overcharge it. This would give it a chance blowup in your face or give it a boost. Also if you cast something besides your spell or focus, your focus is reset to 0.


It seems this can be a bit over complicated. So I am curious as to what other people have seen or what you would do.

 

[Anthony Xue]

Hmm. That system would require a lot of spells at varying focus values so the player could in fact build up to the desired focus. Sounds indeed complicated.


Divinity: Original Sin has a manaless system. It relies on two factors:


- Action Points. A character has only so many action points each combat turn, and more powerful spells need more. Character level and stats give additional points.


- Recharge time. After you have cast a spell, it needs a number of combat turns until it can be cast again. Skill level and stats reduce recharge time.


I was skeptical at first, but the system worked surprisingly well. High level characters with full spellbooks were very powerful because even if a spell would need seven turns to recharge, they had six other spells they could use in the meantime.

 

[Frogboy]

I developed a pen and paper CRPG (PPCRPG?) for my son when he was younger as a fun way to help him improve his mathematics (lots of adding dice rolls and running totals and such). It ditched MP and just made Skills require  difficulty check. Basically, the more powerful the skill, the less likely it would be performed successfully. It worked reasonably well. Not sure if it would scale up to large Skill set, though.

 

[bifronz]

Divinity: Original Sin has a manaless system. It relies on two factors:

 Hmm forgot about that game. May look into it a bit more. Never made it past the first city lol.

It ditched MP and just made Skills require  difficulty check.

Thats an interesting idea. I am pulling alot from tabletop rpgs so I may look into adapting something along these lines.

 

[Wavelength]

While a cool system on paper, you are most likely going to run into a problem where your players are using Focus on three-quarters of their turns (or just skipping the focus/skill loop altogether and going with straight basic attacks, depending on balance).  It would work much better, I think, if the characters passively gained Focus each turn - meaning fewer turns wasted on the Focus skill and more unpredictable amounts of Focus (which plays well to your system).

 

[LightningLord2]

Say, what kind of benefit do you see in the focus system and why do you want to do away with MP? If you can tell me that, I could help you that with designing the system.

 

[Hoppy]

Just use your TP bar for magic if you don't want to use MP.  As for the focus part, there's the VE Charge Actions plugin, just have a charge state for each level of magic or if you want to be more complex a charge for each type and level of magic.

 

[bifronz]

While a cool system on paper, you are most likely going to run into a problem where your players are using Focus on three-quarters of their turns (or just skipping the focus/skill loop altogether and going with straight basic attacks, depending on balance).

That's a bit of the point. I want slower combat but less of it. So there won't be a great deal of grinding so the fights should move a bit slower. Also I was thinking if I could make it a 2 action system it would balance out a bit better. Also party will be random for the most part so no issue of stacking melee characters (who will have their own system).

Say, what kind of benefit do you see in the focus system and why do you want to do away with MP? If you can tell me that, I could help you that with designing the system.

A big thing is I want to slow down combat and I don't want a situation in which you can run out of the ability to cast. Also The focus system makes the player think ahead a bit and cause a bit of stress. Though I hope to balance it by allowing characters 2 actions per turn. For example, say a spell is 3 focus. You could focus twice in 1 turn and on the second turn focus and cast. Or that's the ideal anyways.

Just use your TP bar for magic if you don't want to use MP.  As for the focus part, there's the VE Charge Actions plugin, just have a charge state for each level of magic or if you want to be more complex a charge for each type and level of magic.

I'll check that plug in out thanks. My big thing is I don't want a resource pool based casting system. I want to cast as much as I like bUT also make you plan out a bit.

 

[Wavelength]

That's a bit of the point. I want slower combat but less of it. So there won't be a great deal of grinding so the fights should move a bit slower. Also I was thinking if I could make it a 2 action system it would balance out a bit better. Also party will be random for the most part so no issue of stacking melee characters (who will have their own system).

I certainly understand the desire to make your system slow and strategic when your battle count is relatively low (my entire game has 9 battles!).  But I would ask you - are you sure that using Focus (perhaps repeatedly) to build up for a single skill is going to be a fun experience for your players?  If not, consider ways (like additional, passive focus gain over time) to make sure that your players are hitting the "high points" of fun as frequently as possible.

 

[bifronz]

But I would ask you - are you sure that using Focus (perhaps repeatedly) to build up for a single skill is going to be a fun experience for your players?

I think it could be if I balance it right (keep the turn count lowish ~3 max) and add some visual feedback (e.g. a character charging a glowing ball of energy each time they focus). I also feel like having a "charge/focus" ability would feel a bit more satisfying mentally than guarding and waiting. Or atleast that how it seems in my head lol. I may sit down and try to throw together a proof of concept when I get the chance. See how it actually plays out.

 

[LightningLord2]

I have an idea - since you want to use focus as a power source, one way to avoid forcing the player to charge up many times is a system like Tension in Dragon Quest. Tension lets you charge for up to 4 turns and unleash a more powerful hit depending on how much you charged. So you could use a weak, uncharged version of the spell that can finish off weakened enemies or clean up trash, or charge up turns for a stronger spell, potentially even getting additional effects this way.


If it's important for you that the player's actions are delayed by bigger skills, you can make it so that the skill immobilizes you for a set amount of turns and then goes off afterwards. Basically, adding multiple turns as a charge time. In that case, you can make some playing around with skills that accelerate, slow down and interrupt spells while they're being charged.

 

[AwesomeCool]

I prefer the energy like systems imo.


ex: 100 max energy with 20 added each turn.


Increases spell variety (can't just spam one skill over and over).


No stupid attrition that comes with mana (most rpgs rely on attrition as THE means of difficulty and is really unstrategic and discourages spell use on normal fights)


Allows a character to always have something to do and offers options (spam weak spell, use a really weak spell to save some or save for big spell),


Offers alot more variety and ideas of strategy in battle


and no down time (aka no waiting rounds with basic actions which limits strategy)

 

[kovak]

You can use cooldowns on skills.


Make use of TP since it recharges pretty fast or give to them limited uses (charges)
Or even the PnP (D&D) classic: skills are separed by levels and each level has its own pool of charges.


I'd never use the cooldown one, i simply can't think about a way to make it work.

 

[jonthefox]

Question:  why not just use the MP bar or TP bar to represent "focus"?   Provides an easy and visual representation of the mechanic you're going for.  You could have players start the battle with 0 and have to build it up over time (either through regen, or using a skill, or both) or you could have their bars start at max amount (or different amounts based on their stats) and force them to manage their resource throughout the battle.    


I like your idea, it's more realistic and forces more interesting strategic choices rather than just "spam fireball until run out of MP, then drink mana potion"...I just think that you can achieve this by using the MP or TP bar in non-traditional ways.

 

[DogeWorm]

Rename the TP to "focus" and then make a spell that gives you 1 TP. This way, every spell will cost TP instead of MP. However, this will require a lot of game balancing though, and taking away the mana bar might break the EULA depending on how you do it.

 

[kovak]

@DogeWorm which EULA?

 

[DogeWorm]

VX ACE's. It says you can't rewrite the script, and one way of erasing the MP bar is basically rewriting the script becasue MP is included several times in multiple pages.