Frostorm

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So far, I made the requirements for a Counter to proc as the following:
  1. Defender must have a Counter skill equipped.
  2. Defender cannot be facing away from the Attacker (side & front ok).
  3. The Attacker's attack must be single-target.
  4. The Defender must be in the correct range (depends on equipped Counter skill).
    • If the equipped Counter skill is a melee attack, max range between units = 1.
    • If the equipped Counter skill is a ranged attack, max range between units = 4 (but != 1).
    • If the equipped Counter skill is a magic attack, max range between units = 4.
Thus, the only thing that varies between different Counter skills is their range requirement.
 

NamEtag

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So far, I made the requirements for a Counter to proc as the following:
  1. Defender must have a Counter skill equipped.
  2. Defender cannot be facing away from the Attacker (side & front ok).
  3. The Attacker's attack must be single-target.
  4. The Defender must be in the correct range (depends on equipped Counter skill).
    • If the equipped Counter skill is a melee attack, max range between units = 1.
    • If the equipped Counter skill is a ranged attack, max range between units = 4 (but != 1).
    • If the equipped Counter skill is a magic attack, max range between units = 4.
Thus, the only thing that varies between different Counter skills is their range requirement.
What about 2range spears?
 

Frostorm

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What about 2range spears?
Then the range is between 1-2 but the involved units must be lined up in a cardinal direction. Damn, that's gonna be a bastard and a half to code...
 

Frostorm

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Got another question:

Should MP effects trigger Counters? As in, when $dataSkills[x].damage.type == 2 || 6.

P.S. Fwiw, I'm not asking in the context of my game. I'm simply asking...if you were to play some random RPG, would you find it strange that MP effects trigger Counters? Or would you find it strange that they don't?

Edit:
I don't think it's a good idea for aoe to trigger counters.
Hmm, I just did some testing in both Triangle Strategy and Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark. AoE skills trigger Counters in both titles it seems. Something to consider...
 
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ScorchedGround

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Hmm, I just did some testing in both Triangle Strategy and Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark. AoE skills trigger Counters in both titles it seems. Something to consider...

I guess that really depends on the type of counter and how *potent* they are.
If counters are extremely strong, then having them react to AoE would probably be very frustrating.



Can't speak about Triangle Strategy, but as I also played A lot of Fell Seal, I wouldn't really say the game has counters at all. Atleast not the traditional kind.

I think *Reaction Skills* would be more suitable.

Obviously you have your fair share of "You hit me, I hit you back" reaction skills, which are most often limited by the range of the weapon. Melee weapon? Only trigger the reaction skill from one cardinal tile away. Spear? I'll give you two tiles in cardinal direction and one tile diagonally. Ranged Weapon? Well I dunno, could be 4, 5, 6 or more tiles. They even let you counter in melee range.

You even get more exotic counter reaction skills that specifically counter magic attacks from ANY range.

But most importantly, the VAST majority of the games reaction skills are not even the offensive kind.
You get reaction skills that grant buffs upon taking damage, like auto-regen and movement boosts.
You get reaction skills that absorb MP that enemies spent to attack you.
You get reaction skills that counter enemy actions not with damage, but by inflicting debuffs, like crippling physical attackers or silencing an enemy mage.

I find it particularly funny when I use skills of the Wizard(?) that always target EVERY enemy on the map no matter where they are and then suddenly everything goes wild as effects get triggered left and right.

I actually really like that system. It gives you a lot of strategic options that have a lot of weight on them. All the reaction skills feel powerful enough. And it somewhat balances out the power of AoE abilities since you effectively make a tradeoff between damaging a lot of enemies, but having all their reactions come into effect.



As for traditional counters, I guess it really depends on your game balance.
If it takes only like 2 or 3 hits to K.O. someone, it would be fairly punishing if every attack got countered with similar damage, effectively discouraging any melee combat whatsoever.

For that instance, I really like the approach of tactical grid-based games like Heroes of Might and Magic or Kings Bounty where any given unit can *ONLY* counterattack once every turn-cycle.

So you could just make your tankiest creature attack an enemy and follow up with all your other units without getting punished too hard.



Edit:
as for MP effects, I don't think it matters much as long as you retain continuity with it.
As in, if it works for one MP effect, make it work for all of them.
 

sunnyFVA

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If you are very concerned about the trigger conditions of counters being too common, you could consider limiting the number of counters a unit can perform per round. This sort of bleeds into your other topic about flanking attacks, but the editions of DnD I've played tend towards a character having a single attack of opportunity per round, but special effects like Feats and class features can allow that number to increase. Sometimes in a flat fashion ("you may perform an additional attack of opportunity each round"), and sometimes in a scaling fashion ("you may perform a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity modifier").

A system like that would make your number of available counters a resource to manage. The player could manipulate the enemy by planning actions such that enemy counters are used up on party members that can handle them, enabling allies to act more freely. The order of actions performed by the AI would also introduce some organic-feeling randomness without the counters just randomly occurring. AoE attacks triggering counters would similarly fall under this umbrella. One can imagine a tank-type character (ally or enemy) with a skill that deals damage in an area and generates some defensive bonus (shield, defense, etc) based on the number of enemies hit. This would allow them to comfortably absorb a chunk of the foes' counter budget.
 

Frostorm

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I think *Reaction Skills* would be more suitable.
Yes, I think that's a better description as well. In fact, I plan on going with such an approach. Basically, having non-offensive Counters in addition to the offensive ones.

I actually really like that system. It gives you a lot of strategic options that have a lot of weight on them. All the reaction skills feel powerful enough. And it somewhat balances out the power of AoE abilities since you effectively make a tradeoff between damaging a lot of enemies, but having all their reactions come into effect.
Yea, it's that tradeoff when using AoE that really appeals to me design-wise. That was one of the first things that went through my mind when I was considering whether AoE skills ought to trigger Counters. I'm currently leaning towards "yes, they should".

As for the strength/potency of the Counters, I noticed that in Triangle Strategy, it's basically half the usual damage of a normal attack. Counters in Fell Seal definitely feel more powerful.

A system like that would make your number of available counters a resource to manage.
Yea, I was considering that just now after @ScorchedGround mentioned Heroes of Might and Magic & Kings Bounty (granted I've never played either). I really like the idea of incorporating how many Counters are left on a unit into the overall strategy. But I guess the Counter skills would have to be fairly strong, otherwise, it would make more sense to not have a Counter limit.

Hmm, but depending on which I decide on, other similar mechanics (like follow-ups) would probably have to adhere to the same rule for consistency's sake. Though it would be cool to have accessories in the game that increase Counters available.

One thing I'm set on avoiding, though, is allowing a unit to have more than 1 Counter skill at any time. I just don't wanna open that can of worms, especially with the way Yanfly's CounterControl selects which Counter skill to use.
 

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