Obfuscating Code

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Touchfuzzy

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@Musashi I've had multiple people who are programmers look at it who were not connected to the situation (or even part of RM at all) look at the snippets provided. They all identified it as lifted code.

@Astrea I would actually love to close this thread. As I said before, the only reason it isn't closed is that I'm tired of the accusations of bias so I wanted to let it run its natural course. As soon as I close this thread people are going to again talk about how we "protect VS". That said, if people would like to see the thread closed as well, I'm all for it.
 

orochii

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Since we're talking again about de/obfuscating code, I'll join! Please stay civil, people. I feel bad for reading all this (not that you should care xD). Anyway.

I'll take pivoo's post as starting point because why not.
Pros.
- De-incentivises Theft
Not really. People can keep splicing code just as Yanfly explained Ava supposedly did. Deobfuscating is one Google search away. They will still be able to steal.
With this, I'm not telling anyone what to do or not to do, just think that for my own personal opinion, obfuscation is just placebo.

- Allows a more centralized area for plugins with potential for a better standard
I don't understand how this one comes from obfuscation or how it is related. Wonder if I can get some clarification please? EDIT: Oh I just remembered, it was something along the lines of "obfuscation makes people get more dilligence points in their dilligence stat".

Cons.
- Making Compatibility patches between plugins is less straightforward
I agree. Not impossible, but key part is less straightforward. Still I think people can manage.

- People wanting to learn how to code can't use it as a resource to learn how a plugin can be structured
Absolutely. Again, not the only source, but it's still considerable when speaking about places you can learn. This one source will not dissapear as long as there is people there to keep the ball rolling, but yeah, might get some more adoption from others, from an engine where everything has been quite open for the most part.

Still, up to debate, but everyone is free to do whatever they want with their code. If you want to write it all in &%&%, which JS lets you do, do so! It should be fun to read xD.
 

Touchfuzzy

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Ok everyone. Topic unlocked. Apologies for the delay in unlocking but when 24 hours were up I was just about to go to bed. It is specifically for talking about Obfuscation. If it goes off the rails again, we will lock it permanently.

 
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??????

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Hi, I dont really have much more to say with regards to obfuscation. I'm not sure anyone does. Anyone who has mentioned points against it has basically been dismissed as far as I can tell.

At the end of the day, if vs wants to obfuscate their code, thats upto them. If they want to charge extra for the unobfuscated copies, thats also upto them (not sure if that had been mentioned yet in this thread or not, but I seen it somewhere). Do I agree with either of these, no, do I care what they do either way, no.


I do think, that a dialogue should be opened up to discuss the other issues that people clearly have with either vs or yf. Possibly best if that was done in pm's between the involved parties so that its not casting a spotlight onto the issues.


Since this thread was temp locked, I done some thinking, scrolled through twitter a bit, and seen something that triggered a memory... This is somewhat related to the subjects we are no longer allowed to discuss. I am not trying to point fingers at anyone, but I have spotted some similarities between things that I feel need to be mentioned and clarified. Based on how the previous issue was handled (via the leaked logs) I do not want to raise this issue via dm between the involved parties for fear that I may be cast out of the community for highlighting it to begin with. How should I proceed with this? Should I create a new thread? or...?
 

cayenne_spicy

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I think it's valid to discuss the scenario which led to the obfuscation issue in question, since it's directly relevant. I don't personally see any good-natured motive that could exist behind imposing censorship of that as a component of the overall topic. In order for individuals to reach a conclusion for themselves, it's important that they have all available information about the issue of obfuscation and what led to it, and the right to discuss it openly and freely.
 

Tea's Jams

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All I gotta say is, people have been warned, if it goes off topic from obfuscation, it's getting shut down. shrug
 
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Hudell

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I think it's valid to discuss the scenario which led to the obfuscation issue in question, since it's directly relevant. I don't personally see any good-natured motive that could exist behind imposing censorship of that as a component of the overall topic. In order for individuals to reach a conclusion for themselves, it's important that they have all available information about the issue of obfuscation and what led to it, and the right to discuss it openly and freely.
Well in the end it doesn't really matter. They are free to share/sell the plugins in any way they want, with motives or not. People are free to use it or not. I don't think there even is anything else to discuss in this subject at this point.
 

Touchfuzzy

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@cayenne_spicy Pretty much everything that can be said has been said on the subject of the situation with the code thieves. I also dislike the insinuation that the reason we stopped discussion on that topic was anything other than "good natured". The reason is that it is accomplishing nothing and everyone involved in having to moderate this mess has something better to do with their time. The only moderators on the forum who aren't volunteer are me, Archeia, and Tea, and Archeia can't moderate it, Tea is new, and I have a mountain of work to do that isn't babysitting this thread.

People can make up their own minds, but just having it go in circles for another day isn't going to do anything new.

@?????? That assumes that there is any "resolution" to the issue. I don't think there is. The level it was talked about in this thread should be enough for outside observers to make their own decision. The people involved clearly aren't going to change their minds, so no reason to have this keep going forever.
 

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I do want to clarify one point that was brought up due to the release of the chat logs.

There are no Discord servers in any way officially connected to this site. That is intentional. The moderators of the Discord servers mentioned in the chat logs are - to the best of my knowledge - not moderators here.

In addition, the person accused was not banned from this site due to that incident. They had been previously banned for other repeated rule infractions.
 

Touchfuzzy

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In addition, the person accused was not banned from this site due to that incident. They had been previously banned for other repeated rule infractions.
Honestly, because everyone else keeps dancing around why they were banned here, it was due to constantly posting NSFW stuff even after being warned. A blatant violation of the rules here. And it happened before we knew anything about the code situation.
 

PixeLockeT

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@Anyone Thanks for posting up those logs. I'm now even more solidified in my personal stance, and it seemed my gut instincts were absodoodlelutely right. Now back to game making for me! u wub
 

Anyone

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I do want to clarify one point that was brought up due to the release of the chat logs.

There are no Discord servers in any way officially connected to this site. That is intentional. The moderators of the Discord servers mentioned in the chat logs are - to the best of my knowledge - not moderators here.

In addition, the person accused was not banned from this site due to that incident. They had been previously banned for other repeated rule infractions.
Honestly, because everyone else keeps dancing around why they were banned here, it was due to constantly posting NSFW stuff even after being warned. A blatant violation of the rules here. And it happened before we knew anything about the code situation.
[MOD]Ok everyone. Topic unlocked. Apologies for the delay in unlocking but when 24 hours were up I was just about to go to bed. It is specifically for talking about Obfuscation. If it goes off the railes again, we will lock it permanently.[/MOD]
Anything added in that direction will only provoke more conversation about parts of it and result in the topic derailing.
If you really, really want this topic to only be about obfuscation, maybe not not add stuff to the discussion that will derail the thread?
'Cause that's a self-fullfilling prophecy right there.
 

Touchfuzzy

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Anything added in that direction will only provoke more conversation about parts of it and result in the topic derailing.
If you really, really want this topic to only be about obfuscation, maybe not not add stuff to the discussion that will derail the thread?
'Cause that's a self-fullfilling prophecy right there.
I would think there would be no need to debate factual information provided by the staff to clarify a few bits of possible misinformation.

1. RMW has no official discord, and the discord being talked about shares no moderators with the official site.
2. The person was banned from the official forums a significant time before the situation happened, or was even heard about, in an unrelated incident.

These are facts. Easily verifiable facts. There is no opinion here. There is nothing to talk about with them.

If there are easily verifiable actual FACTS, not opinions, you think have not been shared that prevent people from seeing the full picture, DM them to me and I'll post those too. The opening post already says misinformation is bad, we are perfectly willing to share any factual information that clears up any misinformation.
 
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Touchfuzzy

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Well, it didn't take long for this to get off topic again. I do love this thread. :p

You are not wrong. And that's a wrap (I should have closed it the moment people started posting about not allowing posting about the code thief situation.)



Addendum: I wasn't kidding about factual information. If there is any FACTUAL information anyone would like added to the conversation, DM me.
 
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