Obfuscating Code

[waynee95]

@Touchfuzzy
The person who posted those logs is not affiliated with the server in anyway and is whether the owner nor part of the staff.

 

[The Stranger]

It looks like they wanted to discuss the matter and come to a decision internally. They refused to take action just because Yanfly demanded it. There's nothing wrong with taking that stance.

 

[Anyone]

Also, since you were the one who called out that it was your server @Anyone, I'll address the logs you posted: Looks like someone had their code stolen, they brought it up with you, and you refused to do anything about it. Also the stuff with Olivia's code is even more obvious than Yanfly's, but you don't seem to have anything in your logs about that.

Was Yanfly acting unhappy about it? Sure. But why shouldn't he be a little upset with the code being stolen. Dude has done incredible things for the RPG Maker community, and the attitude that people have towards him is honestly depressing.

The code thief made money off of stolen code. You refuse to do anything about that. That is what I see.

It's great how you make me the owner of one of the largest RPG Maker plugin dev communities, but in case you missed the message you responded to earlier - I'm was not involved in any of that and was (until just after my post when they invited me) not a member of said community.

So...uh...for someone not accusing people of doing stuff, you sure have a habit of doing so in threads you aren't supposed to?
Like I'm not gonna call an admin on you or anything (though I can't promise no admin has noticed your post), but...maybe not do that?

I got the logs from a member of said community. And since I just days ago learned of this, I was frustrated enough to reply & post them on their behalf, because the members in question probably have a lot more riding on an admin being angry with them, then some third-rate no-name guy like me who isn't even much of a plugin dev.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

@Touchfuzzy
The person who posted those logs is not affiliated with the server in anyway and is whether the owner nor part of the staff.

That is fair. I tried to avoid pulling in names of the discord server I have issues with. That said, perhaps if you don't want users to pull you into the conversation, make rules on your server about sharing logs elsewhere .

@Anyone If you aren't a member of that server or affiliated with it, perhaps don't share logs from there. In my opinion sharing logs from Discord servers that you weren't involved with is very bad form in general. I mistook your post as being someone involved because it is something I would never do.

 

[Yanfly]

Thief's:

Mine:

Olivia's:

Olivia's TOU:

Pictures speak a thousand words.

Let's take a look at what else this person is doing:

Mine:

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Thief's:

Olivia's:

Seriously anyone who can look at these two images and claim the person is not a thief is either blind or has some motives outside the truth.

 

[Chaos17]

Thief's:

Mine:

Olivia's:

Olivia's TOU:

Pictures speak a thousand words.

Let's take a look at what else this person is doing:

Mine:

Your screenshots don't work for me

 

[Anyone]

Seriously anyone who can look at these two images and claim the person is not a thief is either blind or has some motives outside the truth.

Did someone call?

Are those background graphics copied png's that are loaded or bitmaps being drawn? 'Cause if those are pngs, I'd call it fishy, if they're drawn bitmaps, then you can do so via math and someone can just like a style and imitate it?

And the whole stat -> stat increased (difference) isn't really rocket science?
They do both look similar to RPG Maker, on that I'd fully agree.

Can you send me the original & the copied pngs, just out of curiosity?

 

[KakonComp]

At the very least, both sides should agree that as fellow developers we should respect each other's TOS. For respect's sake, if anything.

 

[Cyberhawk]

It's kinda like looking at a fusion. There's no denying that it is using two stolen code.
(If i didn't know this guy was a code thief i'd say man looks nice.) But it's straight up stolen code.
I had no idea the thief's "work." looked like that. They aren't even trying to hide the fact it's ripped.

 

[pivoo]

Thief's:

Mine:

Olivia's:

Olivia's TOU:

Pictures speak a thousand words.

Let's take a look at what else this person is doing:

Mine:

Right so, going to clarify a few things,

a. the original plugin was made as an addon to Olivia's plugin; was it not? When the initial issue was discussed, we asked someone to follow up with the plugin developer about that issue, but the issue about Olivia's plugin got quickly swept under the rug for unrelated code.

b. for the new plugin, the only thing that looks fairly similar to your code is the stat window at the bottom, however the functionality of the plugins seem to be entirely different. Plus, considering how frequently people use your plugins, we can assume that someone making a plugin is going to use a similar style to make it fit better with more projects.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

@Anyone ... You can copy paste the pieces and they overlay 100% dude. The exact angles are the same, and the color is the same with the same level of opacity.

 

[Hudell]

So based on the conversations from those logs, the coders on that server agreed that the itch.io user used yanfly's plugin as a base but didn't agree that it was a wrong thing to do (because they coded more stuff on top of it and didn't "only" copy it).

Welp, if the terms of use forbid it, then it is the wrong thing to do.

I've had my own code copied into other people's plugins in the past as well. I don't particularly care and always used open source licenses (CC0 on MV, Apache2 on MZ), but if it was against my terms, I would like to believe that mods on rpg maker communities would take action if I showed proof of the breach.

 

[DoubleX]

That's the thing, Poryg. Yanfly has tried several times to retire from RM completely but nobody's stepped in to take the place he occupied. I really hope that once all this is over he can finally get his wish.

I think the place he occupied can only be taken by at least several other legends(working together or on their own), because 320k users are simply too many for a single plugin developer to handle.
Also, that way, the community will change from having a single superpower to several popular plugin developers each having many plugins, tons of reputations, and lots of users, and the even healthier competitions among them can make the community an even better place than what it already is.
So I think VisuStella obfuscating the codes will help Yanfly to retire even more quickly(because more of the other legends will be even more motivated to have healthy competition with VisuStella and more users will be even more motivated to switch from VisuStella to something else when there are compatibility issues), but that will still take a long time, and I won't be surprised if Yanfly can only retire after the next maker comes out

 

[Anyone]

So based on the conversations from those logs, the coders on that server agreed that the itch.io user used yanfly's plugin as a base but didn't agree that it was a wrong thing to do (because they coded more stuff on top of it and didn't "only" copy it).

Welp, if the terms of use forbid it, then it is the wrong thing to do.

I've had my own code copied into other people's plugins in the past as well. I don't particularly care and always used open source licenses (CC0 on MV, Apache2 on MZ), but if it was against my terms, I would like to believe that mods on rpg maker communities would take action if I showed proof of the breach.

I'm not familiar with the details and whether he actually copied code or made his look similar, so I can't say anything in that regard.

And from what I can see, the plugin devs weren't, just like you say, claiming that he was necessarily innocent.

What they seem to have an issue is is someone demanding someone else be banned without providing sufficient evidence?

to which came...

PivbooToday at 3:14 PM
I think guilty until proven otherwise is pretty unfair thing to do tbh

To which yanfly said:

Today at 3:15 PM
Then I'm afraid you're living in too ideal a world

I think saying that innocent until proven guilty is an attitude "too ideal" is not a good look.

It looks like someone went ballistic and didn't much care about verifying whether the suspicions were true or not.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Again: Yanfly was unhappy at the time and I don't agree with every detail of how he was communicating, but in the end: The code was in fact stolen, and they made the choice to do nothing about it.

 

[nio kasgami]

Oh boi this thread is just bringing headaches.

Tbh those are privates matters between yanfly AND the said discord server have to do on a public board.
We dont know the contezt or the full picture but in what kind of entitlement we are of judging people actions when its not related to us.

Bringing the whole "conversation" there just sound a way of throwimg shade at someone to try to "discredit" the reason they want to obfuscate the code.

Jesus can we post a clear reasoning pf why we dong want the obfuscation or why we think its bad.

Like right now every 3 post its just direct attack about how yanfly is the evil of all being lol.

Like we understood the point :
They do commercial stuff they dont want the hassle of sueing people becausd they have idiots who steal codes. So they make the code hard to see. Its not rare practice

 

[Hudell]

I'm not familiar with the details and whether he actually copied code or made his look similar, so I can't say anything in that regard.

And from what I can see, the plugin devs weren't, just like you say, claiming that he was necessarily innocent.

Well I'm not going through the whole thing again to find where they said what, but my understanding of the conversation was that they agreed the itch.io user made a plugin using yanfly's code as base but since it was more than just a copy it wasn't theft.

What they seem to have an issue is is someone demanding someone else be banned without providing sufficient evidence?

to which came...


To which yanfly said:

I think saying that innocent until proven guilty is an attitude "too ideal" is not a good look.

It looks like someone went ballistic and didn't much care about verifying whether the suspicions were true or not.

Even if Yanfly didn't approach the situation in the proper way, once it was clear the user was breaking the terms of use, something should be done.

 

[pivoo]

Jesus can we post a clear reasoning pf why we dong want the obfuscation or why we think its bad.

Pros.
- De-incentivises Theft
- Allows a more centralized area for plugins with potential for a better standard
Cons.
- Making Compatibility patches between plugins is less straightforward
- People wanting to learn how to code can't use it as a resource to learn how a plugin can be structured

 

[Anyone]

Bringing the whole "conversation" there just sound a way of throwimg shade at someone to try to "discredit" the reason they want to obfuscate the code.

@cayenne_spicy Dude, Yanfly's as well as SEVERAL other coders working for VS have had their code stolen before. Your analogy literally makes no sense because code thieves have targeted them before, and some parts of the RM community (not here, but there are people here who are part of those communities) sided with the code thieves over the original coders.

This is where it was brought up.
No one else wanted to open that can of worms.

The entire part in bold was, at no point in time, necessary for Touchfuzzy to make his point that yanfly was harassed.

So saying that other people "brought this up to discredit the reason for the obfuscation" is pretty unfair of you.

The only reason I even replied to this thread afterward is because next up Touchfuzzy went on accusing me of being someone else, and that's not a spot I wanna be in, because I can't reply or stand in for people I am not.