OK, I admit it, I'm stuck on a mountain scene

[Shinma]

I am trying to make a scene where the player has gone over a waterfall and has to climb back up a mountain path.

I want some inside (cavey) sections as well as some outside sections. If anyone has played Final Fantasy Dimensions, I am looking to do something similar to early in the game when you are on the way to the shrine.

The problem is, I can't for the life of me do the outside scenes where you are climbing up the mountian. If anyone has a mock scene they have laying around and don't mind showing it off so I can see how they went about it, I would thoroughly appreciate it. 

*Edit* 

Best images that I can find so far to try and relate what I mean.

Spoiler

I know how to do the parrallax back, but I can't get the RTP mountain files to look right. =/

 

[Kes]

Never having played that game, I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean, but if you want them to 'climb up' what appears to be a sheer cliff, you could put a cliff tile somewhere on B-E and then give it ladder passability.  Vary that out with the odd ledge for them to go sideways, then continue up.

I accept that the suggestion may be totally off, but thought I'd make it just in case.

 

[Shinma]

Thanks for the quick reply. I am not having issues with pass-ability, I could always do that in an overlay or event. I just can't seem to put the tiles together in a way to where it looks natural.

Going by the examples posted above, in the first image...

See how the mountains go around the stairs in a way that gives great depth to it? I am having trouble replicating something like that in the RTP. If someone has a scene similar to that I would love to see how they went about doing it.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

well, you probably won't be able using the default tiles right away... you would need to make them "bend" more to have that deeper look...


or maybe you can try to utilize lighting and shading techniques to achieve that...


either way you'd probably have a better chance of doing it via parallax mapping

 

[Shinma]

Yeah, I considered that as well, but I am trying really hard to stay within the RTP. I am find without the bends, I just can't make a scene that looks believable.

I have added a very simple scene below. If anyone could help me figure out how to make this simple scene believable then I could likely expand beyond it.

Spoiler

 

[Zoltor]

Yeah, I considered that as well, but I am trying really hard to stay within the RTP. I am find without the bends, I just can't make a scene that looks believable.

I have added a very simple scene below. If anyone could help me figure out how to make this simple scene believable then I could likely expand beyond it.

Spoiler

I found your problem, It's hard to explain, but inshort, don't have 2 edges right next to each other like that.

Make a indentation of atleast 1 space in(place more of that sand/dirt tile you're using down in it), and it should create a shadow making it look more realistic.

 

[Shinma]

Similar to this?

Spoiler

 

[Zoltor]

Similar to this?

Spoiler

Yes, infact maybe go in one more space(make some 2 in, and some 1 space in, it would add some nice variety).

However I now notice another problem, you're not using the correct mountain tile, use the other one, as it creates a auto shadow effect.

 

[Kes]

Actually, I wouldn't go quite like that, not if you want to give an impression more like the images in your op.

Use a corner tile to go in one space, a straight tile, then a corner tile to come out again so that the whole thing is indented.  Alternatively, as you are using straight RTP tiles, I think I have a diagonal edit which might come in useful.  I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT

And here it is

As you can see, you need to credit Felix Trapper

EDIT AGAIN

If you don't want grass, just use GIMP/Photoshop to remove the green and put in the sandy dirt.  Pretty straightforward.  I've not done it with this one as I haven't been using the RTP cliff.

 

[Shinma]

Zoltor,

 I think I am using the proper tile, it just doesn't create shadows. It kind of has it made into the image. I am in Exterior Mapping, Tile A. Next to last row, last column (cliff). I used the shadow tool on the lower section to show what I mean.

I am attempting to make it add a bit more depth and trick the eye by adding some places you can't reach, but breaks up the boring landscape. Your tips are really helping.

Ksjp17,

 I don't think I can achieve as of an full effect as in my OP, but I used it to show sort of how I would like the scene to flow, if that makes sense. Although if you have that diagonal edit handy, I would use it. Sadly, I am not following what you mean by "Use a corner tile to go in one space, a straight tile, then a corner tile to come out again so that the whole thing is indented."

I used the bottom corner tiles for the base, then straight lines up, then the plateau corner tile on the shelf.

Spoiler

 

[Kes]

This is what I meant by corner tile etc.

It's Mack, not RTP, but that doesn't make any difference.  I don't have time to do a more elaborate example, but by using those corner tiles and shift-clicking, you can make some interesting shapes which wrap around a bit more.  

 

[Shinma]

OK, I see what you did there. That helps tremendously!

 

[Zoltor]

Zoltor,

 I think I am using the proper tile, it just doesn't create shadows. It kind of has it made into the image. I am in Exterior Mapping, Tile A. Next to last row, last column (cliff). I used the shadow tool on the lower section to show what I mean.

I am attempting to make it add a bit more depth and trick the eye by adding some places you can't reach, but breaks up the boring landscape. Your tips are really helping.

Ksjp17,

 I don't think I can achieve as of an full effect as in my OP, but I used it to show sort of how I would like the scene to flow, if that makes sense. Although if you have that diagonal edit handy, I would use it. Sadly, I am not following what you mean by "Use a corner tile to go in one space, a straight tile, then a corner tile to come out again so that the whole thing is indented."

I used the bottom corner tiles for the base, then straight lines up, then the plateau corner tile on the shelf.

Spoiler

Ok, and np.

 

[Shinma]

Thanks again for all of the help. I am going to try some of you what guys have shown me to see what I have come up with. I messed around with my sample scene a little more. I tried to break up the monotony a bit and this is what I ended up with. 

Spoiler

Again, thanks for the tips.

Please do not close this thread yet, as I would love to hear more thoughts and add some updates as I play around with it.

 

[Neverward]

Add some parts where the player can't walk, just some surfaces here and there, and try to make the spaces you do have a little tiny bit less uniform. Straight edges don't exist in nature so the more varied it looks the better! 

 

[Zoltor]

Thanks again for all of the help. I am going to try some of you what guys have shown me to see what I have come up with. I messed around with my sample scene a little more. I tried to break up the monotony a bit and this is what I ended up with. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Again, thanks for the tips.

Please do not close this thread yet, as I would love to hear more thoughts and add some updates as I play around with it.

It's pretty good, buut I would definitely atleast make a indent (from bottom to top), to the left of the cliff with the cave(it will make it stand out much more as a ledge(you could do something on the far left wall edge too, but It's not a must, since you really don't want to bring attention to that pointless area anyway, when there's a awesome cave opening on the same screen).

 

[Vinedrius]

I have noticed a perspective issue in your latest screenshot:

The upper stairs in your latest screenshot appear as a ladder rather than stairs. The indent (not sure if this is the right word for this), in which the stairs are located, is set one tile deep into the cliff both at the top and bottom and the stairs start and end at the same horizontal depth. They look to be completely parallel to the cliff wall. There has to be an indication of an angled formation. You should either start to draw the top of the stairs a bit further deep into the cliff or make the stairs reach out a bit further away the upper cliff and toward the lower one.

I hope I was clear. You are doing good though, it looks better and better with each step

 

[Shinma]

Time for me to turn in for the night. This is what I ended up with for now. I am fairly satisfied with it. Maybe a bit more tweaking. There is still tint work, etc. but I will leave the polish phase for later.

I think I incorporated everyone's suggestions. Sleep is beginning to overtake me, so if I overlooked your suggestion let me know. I really appreciate the help and feedback. This is why I love this community.

Spoiler

 

[Kes]

I think you have made a mapping error immediately to the left of your middle stairs.  You have the ledge cutting in, but the main cliff doesn't change shape to match it.  If it really is being cut in by one tile, then I would expect to see some sort of different shape.  

One final thought.  Compare the way your ledge meets the cliff at the cave entrance with how your other ledges meet the cliffs.  The cave one runs up to the cliff and ends smoothly; the others have the cliff edge tile.  This, imo, doesn't work.  They are not cliff edges at that point.

My suggestion is that you use the smooth ending where all your ledges meet.  Then the bottom row of the cliff immediately above where the ledge joins needs to be a bottom row tile, not a middle row tile.  Doing this would also help prevent the sort of thing I mentioned in the first paragraph.

EDIT

I have just noticed that you have a similar mapping error to the right of the main stairs.  Your ledge seemingly comes out 2 tiles, but it is still flush with the main cliff.

 

[Vinedrius]

Agreed^ If you use the cliff edge tile where it isn't needed, it can make a terrace look like a pillar (or close to a pillar), unless that is in fact what you are trying to do. I think you can easily achieve the desired effect by shift-clicking.

Other than that;

~ Default shadows are missing from two cliff wall; 1- To the left of the pile of dirt in the upper right corner of the map, 2- The eastern most side of the lowest terrace. As it is now, it looks blended into the front side of the wall that is coming down on it from the middle cliff.

~ To the immidiate left of the middle stairs, you will notice that the upper edge of ledge doesn't match the bottom. If this is not intended to be a pillar-like formation, then I think you should extend the left half of the upper edge one more tile downward so that it matches the bottom.