Olivia Switching to Paid Plugins

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by OmnislashXX, Nov 12, 2018.

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  1. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @OmnislashXX : I believe it. My eye surgery was $26,000 before insurance kicked in. And that was an outpatient surgery.
     
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  2. sura_tc

    sura_tc Loner Veteran

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    I have no problem paying for quality plugins and would certainly pay for Yanfly plugins if he ever chooses to go paid route.
     
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  3. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    The only time I think when a paid plugin/script was a jerk move is when is the said script/plugin is an essential one that everyone could get a benefit from it. I don't want to mention which was the paid script, but probably some of you who happened to live few years in the past knew that I tried to compete with the said script and released a free version of the script for anyone who didn't bother to pay the script. To make it fair, I provided the script as-is so I didn't provide much support on it and still promote the original paid script if the user wants more support.

    That said, a specific paid plugin/script for a specific use is fine by me.
     
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  4. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    I don't have any moral/emotional qualms at all with plugin creators charging to download them (I was hoping to do this myself before I realized how Sisyphean it is), but I think it's just become pretty impractical in the RPGM community due to the software as well as the culture.

    The software doesn't offer a store to directly search for, buy, and load in your resources. This lack of a store makes a "sales" model really difficult when the plugins are just simple, single JS files that can easily be shared, and the amount of know-how you need to share it is exactly the same amount of know-how you need to purchase it legally and implement it into your game (both are pretty low). Unless harsh technical restrictions were used as DRM (not a great idea), there would be no way to completely prevent intentional abuse, but having an official, in-program store like Unity does would lead a lot more people to legally buy stuff, especially plugins.

    In addition, the wonderful sharing culture of our RPG Maker community has put so much good stuff out there for free, and in the case of plugins, even the stuff that's "paid" is usually for commercial use only, which makes perfect sense since it's much harder to spot the use of a plugin than it is to spot the use of an audiovisual asset. Not a lot of money comes from that, of course, since only a tiny majority of games are completed and commercially released. The bounty of free plugins out there means that you'd have to create something monumentally large and unique in order to get even honest designers to pay simply to download your plugin.

    Because of those factors, I don't think Olivia is going to have a lot of success selling her plugins (though I wish her the best), and I think it would really take the addition of an in-client Store, plus a few years of time passing, for Public RM Plugin Development as a commercial enterprise to catch on.

    In the meantime, attaching a Visual program to aid in the implementation of your complex plugin could theoretically find a market in a public for-purchase approach.

    @OmnislashXX If this thread is going to continue it would probably be a nice courtesy to place an edit in your opening post too, so that people are really clear that Yanfly isn't switching to paid (I came under this misconception when I read your first post, even with the corrected title).
    (EDIT: Thanks for making the correction! :))
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
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  5. ABandit

    ABandit Veteran Veteran

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    I got many of her plugins when they were free with the intention to donate later, once my project is at least close to completion; I purchased them sooner than that purely to show support. Content creators, especially amazing ones like Olivia, deserve it!
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
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  6. Soryuju

    Soryuju Combat Balance Enthusiast Veteran

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    It’s certainly a shame that the community’s free content creators receive so much abuse in return for their efforts, and I certainly believe that they’re deserving of some compensation for all the work they do on behalf of aspiring game developers.

    That said, I don’t believe that charging up front for mass-release plugins is the most user-friendly way to earn that compensation. What I mean is that as a casual developer, it’s often difficult to know exactly what you’re going to get when you decide to use a new plugin. For example, the key functionality you were searching for might work differently than you understood from the description/help file. The plugin may have compatibility issues with your other plugins and break your project in some way. Or you may simply realize at some point that your project has evolved beyond the need for that particular plugin. Plugin developers aren’t likely to be capable of accommodating the diverse needs of a wide paying audience in the same way they could support individual customers who commission plugins, so the odds of getting precisely the fix/feature you’re hoping for is slim. Personally, I’d rather just search for free plugins that do something similar and put the money I save toward commissioning something custom with ongoing updates/support, or maybe new art and music assets.

    Speaking of which, it’s very common advice to finish designing all of your gameplay and systems first, and then purchase art/music assets once the rest of your game is finished and working. Otherwise you risk wasting money on assets you’ll never use. The problem with charging up front for plugins the same way artists and composers do for their work is that plugins often help to create your core gameplay and systems. You’ll typically need them earlier in the development process, when it’s harder to judge what your final product will require, what’s getting cut, and if you’re even on track to finish. Even if the creator is only charging a few dollars per plugin, it feels bad to waste money on something you later find out you can’t even use (particularly when free alternatives likely exist), and that money could have gone toward something else you needed instead.

    Plugin developers are absolutely entitled to charge for their work, but I think it’s just more practical to collect payments or royalties from completed games using those plugins, rather than asking for fees up front. I respect the quality of Olivia’s work and I’m very sorry to hear that she’s been getting abuse from parts of the RMMV community (and the same goes for other plugin developers in similar situations). Honestly, though, I probably won’t be purchasing any plugins from her at this point in time.
     
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  7. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I dunno. I see little difference between paying for a plug-in you might not use and paying for a DLC of art and music you aren't sure you are going to use myself. Plus if most plug-ins charged say $0.99 each I doubt most would care about the price. All it might do is make you think harder about if you need that plug-in vs putting 900+ plug-ins into your project just because you can.

    On the flip side, it will be hard for them to compete with the free plug-ins. Unless they offer something unique instead like say a Persona fusion system or an ATB system that works well with MV (as those are hard to find).

    Maybe a better solution is for them to do what some authors used to do and make the plug-ins free to use initially, but you have to pay to use them commercially. Granted though, it might be hard to enforce if someone didn't pay and still used them which might be why we don't see much of that anymore.
     
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  8. Soryuju

    Soryuju Combat Balance Enthusiast Veteran

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    I agree that there are similarities to buying DLC asset packs, though it’s still more feasible to pay for those asset packs after all of a game’s mechanical design is finished than it is for plugins. You can buy a pack before you know you can use most of the assets in it if you’d just feel good having them available, and that’s fine. However, you also have the option to wait if you have a specific purpose in mind for those assets, and you’ll be saving money if that specific purpose changes during development. As I said above, you often won’t have that luxury with paid-up-front plugins, since you’ll usually need them to finish your design in the first place.

    Paid plugins also still have the uncertainty factor of unclear descriptions and project-breaking plugin incompatiblities, which are additional risks compared to asset packs. I’ve downloaded more than a few free plugins which sounded like exactly what I needed, only to discover that the functionality I was looking for was implemented differently than how I imagined it. Or that the plugin broke something else I wanted to use, forcing me to find something else similar or someone to write a compatibility patch. My funds to spend on game development are limited, so I’d be pretty frustrated if I ran into either situation after paying in advance for a non-custom plugin.

    I do wholly agree with you that free plugins will be a major issue for this type of plugin business model. While you’re probably right that it won’t be a big deal if most plugin creators are charging $0.99 each, paid-up-front plugins aren’t that common right now, and it’s tough to say what the going rate will settle at. Last I checked, Olivia’s non-sale price was $4.99 per plugin. This now makes her Octopack Battler sample project a great value at $20, but if that didn’t exist, you’d be looking at spending $40 for those plugins when a number of free alternatives already exist. How much will people be willing to spend for the extra base quality when it comes without any customization or personal updates/compatibility support? As you mentioned above, it’s only truly revolutionary plugins I see succeeding under this model, ones which most people wouldn’t attempt to develop for free.

    I wish I could offer more constructive comments on the issue, but since I’m not a plugin developer, I’m ignorant about the complexities of the issue from their perspective. Maybe most of the alternatives to this business model would be even worse for them. But as a developer who understands the importance of supporting the people who work hard to make content for RPGM, I can’t really say this method of support appeals to me.
     
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  9. Yanfly

    Yanfly Developer

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    I think it's time I speak up here.

    I'll say that for the time being, this kind of thing won't be happening thankfully due to my generous patrons. If it weren't for them, well...

    You can question the sales model all you want due to the software limitations of RPG Maker not having a proper store for it, but it doesn't change the fact that content creators need support, too. As there is no practical way to ensure that a plugin creator is being properly compensated for their work, it has to be supported on thin threads called trust, respect, and appreciation. Once those threads are cut, the content creator leaves and neither party will benefit. The sales model is flimsy, but it is not strictly the plugin creator's responsibility to make it work but also the community's. This applies not only to code being sold but also art and music, too.

    The wonderful sharing culture of the RPG Maker community would work if it weren't abused. In the earlier RPG Maker eras when the community was far smaller than it is currently, respect towards content creators of all types (not just coders) was held in high effect. Add abuse to that and content creators will leave as they will feel like they're being driven out, which is actually what happened to me during VX Ace. This is also sadly what happened to many of the more talented members out there in art, music, and code...

    While there's a lot of free plugins, there's also a lot of plugins that are now just left and gone to collect dust without future support because their plugin creators have left due to abuse (see Victor Sant, Tsukihime, DreamX, SRDude, and now Galv). Using those free plugins should only be considered if you're capable of working without support for those.

    As far as monumentally large and unique, Olivia has just done and achieved exactly that. Her battle system is something that accomplished that mine weren't able to. On top of that, she did it with flying colors as she paid heavy attention to FPS performance, compatibility, and integration with the MV editor itself, not to mention how the battle system feels nearly identical to the actual game itself. Her other plugins that are being sold are nothing to scoff at either.

    Victor Sant tried this method with VX Ace. It did not work. People would just use the scripts anyway, ignoring his EULA, and sell them in commercial projects. This is not limited to just scripters/plugin creators either. Artists had this issue. Kaduki used to have a non-commercial use clause in his Terms of Use, but people still sold games with them. This is what forced him to take down his work and paywall it later.

    This is going to be arrogant of me to say this, but as a game developer (casual or not), it is your job to adapt to the plugins you choose to use, not the other way around. Plugins aren't designed to read your mind and make your game operate exactly the way you imagined it. Furthermore, some features that may seem extremely simple in the head to imagine are far more complex to make.

    If you plan on buying a plugin that has highly uncertain features, that's going to be on you. The same way you wouldn't buy unknown over-the-counter medicine without looking into the details properly, you should prompt the same research time and habits with plugins. In Olivia's case, nearly every single one of her plugin pages are documented to the point of minute detail so she's hiding next to nothing (or anything at all). You will know what you're going to buy. And just like with medicine, it may or may not necessarily work with other medicines out there, but in Olivia's case, she puts out a list of what her works are compatible with.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
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  10. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Exactly. There's no plug-in that a game developer NEEDS, it's more like its a plug-in you WANT. Many developers forget the difference. You can make a game with the engine as is. Your game will still exist. It will just be different than you imagined it. As it is, we had someone when I first started state the following when it comes to game development.

    When it comes to stuff you want for your game, you got the following choices:
    1: Make it yourself
    2: Find an existing option to use
    3: Pay someone to make it
    4. Do without.

    My game has many a things that option 4 became the choice I picked. Sure, I'd like better graphics, and that full fledged tactical system like Jagged Alliance used that the original design called for, but both were axed in favor of using what was available. Also, some of my skills don't exist or were changed as they required something not in Yanfly's ACE scripts, and I refused to mix scripts by different authors so as to avoid issues with compatibility. So instead I adapted my game to what was there. And in the end, it worked.
     
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  11. Soryuju

    Soryuju Combat Balance Enthusiast Veteran

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    I don’t think that comes off as arrogant. I feel I should clarify, it’s not my intent to say that plugin developers should be psychic and held responsible for designing massive plugins which can work exactly the way each user envisions them. I know that’s simply not possible and that plugin developers already work hard to provide as much functionality as possible for the widest range of potential users. I think it’s amazing how so many readily accommodate detailed feature requests shortly after a plugin’s release, even if they naturally move on to other projects after some time.

    What I was getting at was that personally, I probably wouldn’t pay up front for a product in the first place if I wasn’t sure it was going to do what I needed. Instead, I’d change my design plans, or look to existing free alternatives, or just save up money to commission a customized plugin with ongoing support from the developer. Since those options are available, I’m not sure how many users will consistently purchase non-custom plugins which they need to pay for in advance.

    What also worries me is that more entitled users might see that upfront payment as justification for their attitude toward content creators. We’ve already seen that people will get nasty toward developers working hard to provide content which costs users nothing. If these entitled users put money down for a plugin which doesn’t work how they expect, the level of abuse these individuals will throw at content creators is likely to rise dramatically, and might drive off content creators at an even faster rate. Clear documentation and disclaimers in plugin descriptions aren’t likely to be enough to stop the stupid anger of consumers with unrealistic expectations.

    For the record, I’d definitely pay for Olivia’s Octopack Battler sample project, since besides the great value it gives for 8 plugins, it contains lots of sample code and design elements I could learn from when designing my own projects, and shows a working example of all plugin features in action. That valuable design knowledge I could gain would help justify the expense even if I didn’t end up using any of the plugins in it. Money is tight right now, but it’s something I’d like to pick up eventually.
     
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  12. OmnislashXX

    OmnislashXX Veteran Veteran

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    I would investigate Olivia's Plugins. I'm sure that she makes some fantastic stuff. But money is pretty tight at the moment...I can't afford to pay for it right now. So I mean, that as they say is that.
     
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  13. punchybot

    punchybot Veteran Veteran

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    Yanfly, that was not an arrogant thing to say, that was just reality.

    The problem, from what I understand, is that there seems to be a lot of demand from people on what they think a plugin should be or be changed. I do not understand why their thoughts and opinions are even being given any attention. It should be this: here is the plugin, as is. And people can do with it as they please.

    Yanfly makes a lot of high quality plugins as they are designed to be compatible with each other and Olivia seems to make similar steps of attention to detail. For free! That's awesome.

    For people who don't or can't spend money - make your game based on whats available. Don't try to make a game you are incapable of making because the system, plugin, or art doesn't exist. Gain more skill and make a solution when you are skilled. Free stuff is a huge thing and it's a miracle it's so widely available.
     
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  14. Astfgl66

    Astfgl66 Veteran Veteran

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    There are many things that can be done with free plugins. The amount of things you can do if you use the yanfly suite itself is astounding. Especially if you can code a bit and use the "lunatic" parts. Using those, short of fundamental modifications to the battle system, you can probably do anything.
    In the first request I saw for an OTB I answered that most of it can be done using yanfly's suite. That answer still stands. Using only available plugins you can recreate most of the OTB.
    You'll have to do the UI yourself, but almost everything else is game: additional turns is not, but that's the only thing I couldn't do. And, in my opinion, visuals should be custom made anyway.

    So: if you want the ready made version and save hours and hours of work, you'll have to spend some cash.
    That's just how life works in general, not just for game making. If you want free clothes, you make them yourselves. If you want free art or code you make it yourself. And just like if people are nice and give you free clothes, you can't really expect it to last forever, or ask for specifics, or worse for it to fit with free stuff you got somewhere else. The same goes for art or code.

    Not to mention the amount that is asked here is really small compared to the amount of work it must have taken.
     
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  15. EZaxess

    EZaxess Veteran Veteran

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    I encourage them all to charge for their plugins to stay motivated and justify their efforts.

    Being a game developer is not something you should pursue if you can't pay for or learn and create the content yourself. The programmers that I know around here are swarmed daily with questions and private messages from folks not even trying to understand how something works, don't tip them, most are even rude, needy and right out selfish.

    Respect their time. They spend countless hours to keep this community afloat and offer a lot of tools to enhance our games.

    Complaining about someone charging 2.99$ to 9.99$ which is dirt cheap in this business for quality scripts is adding insult to injury, creating these scripts are a full time job to some, let's be supportive of our community and get real for a minute rather than playing the world's smallest violins.

    You will have a dead community and no future rpg makers if we don't contribute back, they will go elsewhere if they can't sustain their living costs or master their skills here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
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  16. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Think of it like this--coding is something not everyone can do, just art, music, etc. Each artist has the right to either charge for their work or give it away for free at their sole discretion. Maybe Yanfly has spoiled us all with the generous terms of use attached to his plugins, and we should all probably take a moment to be grateful instead of expecting it from everyone else who writes plugins.

    Many people don't think twice about paying for artwork, so why should code be treated any differently?
     
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  17. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    @Yanfly

    There's nothing wrong with choosing to use a public purchase model like Olivia did, except (I believe) its practicality. This is not throwing shade in any way whatsoever.

    As a content creator myself, I understand full well how hard it is to offer try-before-you-buy and make any kind of revenue with it. I tried this for a year or so, before it became very clear that this wasn't viable. I started doing big work solely on a Commissions basis, releasing smaller snippets and continuing to support my public scripts as a hobby - with respect and appreciation as my only compensation for that.

    I don't believe that paywalls would have been the answer, though! It would have forced me to wear additional hats that I might not have been able to (marketer, technical writer, website designer, businessman). But it also would have turned away most people at the gate. Without a chance to try-before-the-buy, and see whether my plugin could enhance their game in the way they envisioned, I think most developers would have just walked away.

    And I think that's completely reasonable of them - because unlike your analogy of OTC Medicines, my plugins don't have millions of dollars of FDA research, standardized labels, or even reliable distribution behind them. The actual effect would have been that fewer people would have seen the plugins, fewer would have used them (especially for noncommercial use), and they simply would have helped less people out in their game-making, while making me almost no money anyhow.

    You've managed to make this "free plugins" approach work, Yanfly, and I have gigantic respect for you for that. You've not only made your plugin work commercially viable, you've also managed to build a community around it. There are a lot of factors that have made for your success; I think chief among them are the way you went all-in early on, and the extremely wide variety of use cases for your Core plugins. Your success is awesome, and I speak for pretty much the entire RPGM community in saying we're genuinely thrilled for you.

    With that being said, I don't think this system can work (financially) for a large number of content creators, whether the community is respectful and trusting or not. And like you said, when there is less content being created, the community suffers too. This is why I suggest that not only do the content creators and the community have to do it right, but the platform has to do it right, too.

    An in-client Asset Store (with reviews, curation, and - when justified - returns) would cement a lot of the trust that would be required for a public purchase system, and would also simply make it a lot easier for content creators to reach a big audience of developers without needing to wear 20 different hats to make it a big success like you have.

    Respectfully, I don't think any plugin creators in our community have been abused. I've been the victim of physical and verbal abuse in a few periods of my life, and many people have experienced even worse than I have; there's nothing directed from our community toward creators that even comes close to this line.

    Let's look at SRDude's plugin page. Here's a quick link. To give a fair sampling of the comments made to SRD on that page:
    • "Just wanna leave a comment to show my thanks for all the things that you have done which help me greatly in understanding RPG Maker MV - keep up the good work bro!"
    • "Awesome plugins! Also, may I ask, where would these go if I used Yanfly plugins as well in the plugin order?"
    • "First, you make so much great videos and design unbelievable plugins for a long time. Thank you and that really touch me. Your super tools is soooo good and convenient for all of game developers. And I’m here to ask you some questions. 1) Using the HUD creator, the HUDs are stable during game playing. How can I achieve that HUDs can follow something such as an event?......"
    • "Dude, just wow. I watched your MV tutorial playlist (all 30 videos) and finally had an idea what I was doing. So I explored my options and kept running into crazy undoable sheit. Until I found this page. Mad love."
    • "There are some of you out there who probably haven’t heard of [porn site redacted]. This is one of those must see sites. It’s full of extremely attractive ladies. You’re going to want to put down your sandwich when visiting this site."
    • "Hi! It seems the menu status customizer plugin is not compatible with the IconBust alternate menu (I simply wanted to use it to hide the class text from the main menu screen) – is there a way to make them work together or is it not intended to be compatible with each other?"
    • "Hey I wanted to thank you for your good work and I wondered if you could make a plugin for a chicken chase game, where you have to catch a certain amount of chickens before a timer runs out and the reward depends on how much time the player needed. Is this possible? because I suck at programming it and it takes soooooo long. You are great at creating plugins so I figured, if you wanted to make this kind of plugin it would be perfect like all your other plugins"
    • "just want to say that your work is awesomeee!!!"
    • "Please. I have a request for you.
      Can you make an Earthbound style Odometer HP/MP Roll Plugin? Basically when a character takes damage the HP slowly rolls down before stopping at its correct amount. ......

      Please. This is the main mechanic for my game and I can’t find it anywhere else."
    • "The Nature plugin link is redirecting to Copy Ators plugin!"
    • "Can you make an ATB plugin that you can customize the ATB mode even from plugin commands? and unlike Yanfly, make it to where the battle keeps going when the meter is full!"
    • "The other day, while I was at work, my sister stole my iphone and tested to see if it can survive a thirty foot drop, just so she can be a youtube sensation. My apple ipad is now broken and she has 83 views. I know this is completely off topic but I had to share it with someone!"
    • "you always do great work , just wanted to say thank you!!!"
    • "Could you make (if possible) a plugin, which makes it able to equip weapons and armor directly from the item-scene? I need it only for a 1 actor game, so it don’t has to have a actor selector. Would be nice! Thanks"
    • "Hey my big love! You have a little fault on this Website. The Link to the “Nature”-Pokémon Plugin is a lie!!!one! But have a nice day"
    • "With thanks! Valuable information!"
    • "OMG 100 plugins! you’re awesome O:"
    Analyzing the comments, they consist almost entirely of 5 things.

    The most common thing you can find on that page is praise and appreciation for the work he's doing - which is good because the work SRD has done really is great.

    A close second is requests for new plugins to meet a need (often bundled into the same post as the praise and appreciation). SRD wisely chose to ignore most of these very game-specific, very time-consuming requests. There are also a small number of good, ostensibly helpful suggestions for generally-usable plugins which SRD can either take or ignore.

    Third is spam-link messages - basically an artifact of needing to run your own website instead of having an in-client asset store.

    Fourth is helpful tips addressed directly to SRD, like spotting broken links on his website.

    Fifth is questions asking for help on how to use specific plugins. This is probably not the perfect place to post them, but they are valid, genuine questions.

    For an internet message board, this is about as good as you're gonna get. An example of the supportive, kind, passionate, and - yes, occasionally needy - community that RPG Maker has built.

    It's not my place to speculate about why some of the most popular plugin creators have stopped or slowed their work, but I truly don't think it's fair to pin "abuse" as the reason.

    This should be a great test case, then! I'm not that familiar with Olivia's plugins but if you say they're superb, then they probably are. Let's hope that those superb plugins turn into superb sales.

    If they do, it's evidence suggesting that the community can support public purchase (paywall) plugins. If they don't, it's evidence that the platform needs to more directly support the marketplace if asset creation is going to ever be financially viable for more than a few people.

    -----------

    One last thing - I just noticed that you have a Developer tag! Does that mean that you're working in an official capacity for Degica/Kadokawa? If so, congratulations! It's really well deserved.
     
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  18. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    From what I see, specifically for Olivia's case, she discovered a wonderful sharing of RM community. She made some plugins, small one at first (I knew because met her in a certain discord chat) when she wasn't so popular yet, shared them for free. And the following days, her plugin list went bigger.

    She might be wishing by sharing these plugins could help people make their game. After all, it was something like "Hey, I can make these, now go make an awesome game with it!" (btw, I used to enter community sharing with the same reason). Approximately after a month, she started her career, what she got was a constant 'harassment' of some people who don't bother to go through the instructions, reporting a false bug, or false information regarding the bug (and the worst part is about asking compatibility, or requesting a completely different feature).

    The move to the paywall method I believe it was because of something like "If you're serious about developing your game ... ". It may be mainly for filtering purpose because people tend to take it for granted. The first reason wasn't that she was trying to sell plugins (Disclaimer: idk the whole story about OTB, its paywall method, and the reason behind Archeia ended up locking the OTB thread). The worse part of being paywall is that she may need to give more support to her buyers more professionally because it's money we're talking about. While free plugins can be "abandoned" and leave it as-is. However, I believe she didn't want to get into the former route, maybe because she still wish to share those plugins without additional stress going to her.

    Regarding the abuse @Wavelength it mostly comes not from public site comments. Sometimes, when you're popular, people would just spam your inbox with something "silly". Sometimes, a PM asking for a compatibility for a certain plugin you never like how the said plugin is done is already enough to ruin your day despite the praises over your site. Humanity is just better to look at something negative than the positive one. Plus, you got them almost every day or week. In Olivia's case, I believe she is a good person, and she wants to keep continue, but she is maybe at her limit. While other scripters just walk away with no news if they're still alive.

    Btw, I'm back to support my battle system script if anyone uses it though.
     
    #38
  19. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Florida, USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    The flow of questions and requests about my own scripts has been more of a trickle, as compared to the flood that some other scripters get, so I haven't fully walked the mile in a popular scripter's shoes. But still, out of all the awful things that happen to people in the real world and on the internet, a polite request asking for compatibility is right around the bottom of the list, and I can't imagine that we as content creators would allow that to knock us out of the game.

    Once you've gotten popular enough (the grass is always greener, I guess!) that you can't personally handle every unreasonable request that comes your way, there's always the good ol' Form Letter. Just copy, paste, and fill in the blanks!

    Hey ___[name]___!

    Thanks for writing me about my ___[plugin name]___ plugin.

    Sorry to hear that you were having difficulty using it alongside ___[other plugin name]___. Because every plugin creator needs to manipulate the same base code, even perfectly-written plugins from two different authors will occasionally not be compatible.

    Analyzing how other authors' plugins work and working inside their code to create a fix is a surprisingly massive task. While I'd like to be able to help everyone who runs into these issues, I simply don't have enough time to address the hundreds of requests that I get. I am really, really sorry, but I won't be able to help you out with a compatibility patch.

    Sometimes, you can solve issues like these by reversing the order in which these two plugins appear in your project. If that doesn't work (and it often won't), I recommend heading to the Commissions section of these very forums, where there are dozens of members that might be interested in taking a paid commission to create a compatibility patch that will allow you to gracefully use both plugins in the same game. While price ranges vary by the person and the job, in my experience jobs for plugins like these generally run between ___[dollar amount]___ and ___[dollar amount]___ USD.

    Best of luck with your game development!

    Yours truly,
    ___[your name]___
     
    #39
  20. Archeia

    Archeia Level 99 Demi-fiend Staff Member Developer

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Game Dev Salt Mines
    First Language:
    Filipino
    Primarily Uses:
    VNM
    @Wavelength this might give you an insight on the tip of the iceberg.
    [​IMG]

    I was doing support on her stead in RMW because I tested the plugin heavily myself. But people outright ignoring my replies and template for bug reporting made me think it's not worth it and locked it off completely.
     
    #40
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