On Job Systems

[LadyCookie]

Hey people, I always liked the job systems from RPGs like Final Fantasy and Octopath Traveler, where you can change the class of each of your characters. I know it is possible to do the same on RPG Maker, but when I got to the actual planning-the-game part, I couldn't think of why such system would exist in the story.

I find job systems to be very fun in a gameplay perspective, since I love to customize my characters in every way I can. But when actually making the world building and story writing, I prefer to avoid putting things in the game "just because it's cool". Or at least justify why this mechanic exists in the world.

So I started looking on the internet for videos or articles talking about job systems and how they relate to the world building of the games, but I ended up not finding anything useful.

TL;DR, do you have any helpful information on what's the impact of job-change systems in a game, how it can make sense in the story, or any interesting articles about how it is used in other systems?

 

[Tw0Face]

Looks like you're unsure yourself if a job system would make sense in your game. Therefore, I would advise against it. Otherwise you put a lot of work into a system that you might reject later and then it was wasted time. Continue on your game and later, if you think it might fit in, think of it again. Be aware that it takes a lot of work balancing x classes for each actor. To be honest, I wouldn't do it. But maybe you'll surprise us.

Greetings,
Tw0Face

 

[kairi_key]

Not sure if this is the right forum for this topic, lol. But I'll let others decide about that.

As for the topic, I don't know about any reading material for that, but why don't you try seeing how those games with job systems that you liked justify their job mechanics to the setting? As far as I can remember, in classics FF, the 4 heroes' jobs are given by the crystals right? So it's like a magical power to do stuffs. In Octopath, jobs are blessings from gods of each shrines, so it's kinda similar. But in these worlds, people still normally train to become that job, but the ability to change them at will are more of a blessing from divine entities. NPCs still has their battle job, right? In FF12, there are License Board so I always imagine that you kinda need to register or have license for each job, especially in the Zodiac Age. In FFX-2, they did it through a newly developed technology to use memories stored in the Sphere to their advantage.

But to be frank, I think those games are already planned to have job systems so they kinda play around the idea. Some even use the suspension of disbelief, or just ignore it. If you already have a setting and story planned out and including the job system seems out of place then the reason already boil down to "because it's cool."
But if you are just finding the place to start, then maybe try seeing how each games that has jobs did the thing you're curious about. Go see how they justify their system in their setting.

Tho, doing job system is hard work.

 

[SolonWise]

Maybe changing jobs is natural for warriors who live in a world where fighting monsters and manipulating nature elements is a normal day-to-day thing, so I think we can easly put a class changing system in a game and it still will make sense. For instance, maybe there is a lot of dojos around the world, and each dojo can teach the characters the way of a different class.

 

[LadyCookie]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Looks like you're unsure yourself if a job system would make sense in your game. Therefore, I would advise against it. Otherwise you put a lot of work into a system that you might reject later and then it was wasted time.

I know, that's why I wanted to know more about how other games implement job systems before I decide if I'm gonna put it into a game.

Not sure if this is the right forum for this topic, lol. But I'll let others decide about that.

As for the topic, I don't know about any reading material for that, but why don't you try seeing how those games with job systems that you liked justify their job mechanics to the setting? As far as I can remember, in classics FF, the 4 heroes' jobs are given by the crystals right? So it's like a magical power to do stuffs. In Octopath, jobs are blessings from gods of each shrines, so it's kinda similar. But in these worlds, people still normally train to become that job, but the ability to change them at will are more of a blessing from divine entities. NPCs still has their battle job, right? In FF12, there are License Board so I always imagine that you kinda need to register or have license for each job, especially in the Zodiac Age. In FFX-2, they did it through a newly developed technology to use memories stored in the Sphere to their advantage.

Maybe changing jobs is natural for warriors who live in a world where fighting monsters and manipulating nature elements is a normal day-to-day thing, so I think we can easly put a class changing system in a game and it still will make sense. For instance, maybe there is a lot of dojos around the world, and each dojo can teach the characters the way of a different class.

That's all very interesting. I'll take a look at other systems too.
Thanks everyone for the replies!

 

[Frogboy]

Job systems have never made any real-world sense to me. I don't know how you can realistically explain how a character who was just a level 30 fighter and could kick serious butt with a great sword just all of sudden became a level 1 wizard who has higher intelligence than strength and can no longer hold a great sword but can now cast spells. It just doesn't make sense.

The only way I could make sense out of this is if it was a sci-fi game and the characters transferred their minds into new bodies and had to learn everything from scratch because their new forms didn't yet possess the physical abilities and magical infusion.

I found more logic in multi-class systems where if you train as one class and then decide to train as another, you'll get aspects from both without being as good at either.

 

[Aesica]

Honestly, things like that are okay to just throw in without any justification. FFT never tried to. The only one I can think of that does semi-justify it ingame is FF5, with those job/class crystals you'd acquire in order to unlock new jobs, but that's about as far as it went.

 

[Wavelength]

Moving this thread to General Discussion. We haven't discussed the design of game mechanics (and you haven't asked us to), but rather the framing of how to work a mechanic into a game's worldbuilding. I think framing discussions are better served in General Discussion.

~

Most JRPGs (not to mention a lot of other genres) don't spend a lot of effort on building a convincing world, instead focusing on what makes a cool experience. They justify that the player will appreciate a fun mechanic, and that trying to show why that mechanic belongs in the world (when we know that, really, it shouldn't be) would probably just be boring and pointless anyhow. So they include (ostensibly) fun mechanics like job systems without any explanation. And that's fine.

Other mechanics you see this happen often with are Magic users, Random Encounters here creatures of different species gang up to attack you), Revive items/spells, Class-restricted Weapons (e.g. Aeris can't use a Sword), and Treasure Chests sitting in dungeons or homes that are just waiting for you to raid their contents.

It's up to you as the creator to decide: are you relying heavily on realistic worldbuilding to immerse your player in your game experience? If so, don't include a silly video-game contrivance like a Job System. But if not... then don't worry so much about it!

 

[Redeye]

I wouldn't really worry about it. Class Change systems generally tend to be inexplicable and are merely just something that the audience suspends their disbelief about. The only real lore reason I would give for class changes would be something weird like "In order to use certain skills or talents, you have to devote yourself to a god/legend/artifact of that particular class in order to receive their blessing" or something. But again, there's really no point in worrying about it. If you like class changes and think your game will be fun because of it, then go for it.

 

[AfroKat]

They can be in a game, and the job change is just that changing their jobs.

Bravely Default had it so the main villains knights who helped him in his battle years ago all carried an "asterisk" (job stone) and Everytime you beat one of those knights they gave you an asterisk and you learn their abilities. I think it was more detailed so that it helps the common folk with other stuff and the church (church bad in rpg who knew?) Sealed them away for money or something?

 

[LadyCookie]

Thank you everyone. Those are all very interesting thoughts on the job systems.
And sorry for posting on the wrong forum, won't happen again! ^^'

 

[jwgz]

One thing you could do so as to not is make a quasi-job system that doesn't really affect the story. As in, have 2 or 3 basic types of characters (say, Warrior, Mage, and Rogue) and then split them off.

So, for example:
A Warrior-inclined character could never choose to be a Mage, but he could swap between Berserker, Knight, or Vanguard
A Mage-inclined character could swap between Wizard, Cleric, or Druid
A Rogue-inclined character could swap between a Ranger, Bard, or Assassin

That way each character will remain what they are, story-wise, while still allowing you to customize them a bit, i.e. you don't need a justification for why a warrior would choose to wear more armor in order to defend their allies, or less of it to be able to move around more quickly and deal vicious damage at the cost of personal protection. He/she would adapt to whatever the situation demands, much like what the job-based FF games do it.

Just a thought.