On the subject of completionism?

Are you in favor of, or against total 100% completion? (read topic before voting)

  • I like to collect everything in one run.

  • I like to replay the game in order to see everything.

  • I have no strong opinion one way or another.


Results are only viewable after voting.

The Mighty Palm

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So here's something I figure is worthy of discussion, as this is one of those things where whether it's less of a "this is what I want to do" thing and more of a "what would the players want" kind of thing. It's something I've wondered about for a while now and I think I'll get some outside input.

What is your take on games that don't allow 100% completion in one run?
Games where certain items are missable either due to a route you take or a choice you make.

Example 1: in Final Fantasy 6, you can choose between the Ragnarok esper, or the Ragnarok Sword. if you choose the sword, you cannot get the Esper and there will always be an empty slot in your esper list.

Example 2: in Fire Emblem 3 houses, certain weapons are only available on certain routes. EG: You cannot get Edelgarde's relic weapon on Dmitri or Claude's route. There is no inventory carry-over in NG+ so it's impossible for you to collect every relic no matter what route you pick.

Do you hate when games do this? Or do you find it incentive for replayability? Or do you have no strong opinion one way or another?

If I was to make a Magic system where it wasn't possible to learn every spell in the game in one playthrough, would that impact your enjoyment negatively? Or conversely, would you rather be able to collect everything in a single run and become overpowered?

Discuss.
 

MushroomCake28

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Personally when I used to game, I was a hardcore gamer. Didn't play many games, but the ones I played I completed 100%, or near 100%. I have always been of the philosophy of new game +, meaning that playing the games multiple times and carrying over items and other stuff. I liked that some games required many playthroughs to complete it 100%, or simply to be able to complete the hardest dungeon.

However, I believe that I'm in the minority. Most players are casual players, not hardcore gamers (especially on mobile). In fact, most people won't even finish their games, and if they finish it they won't push it further. Once they beat the final boss and see the epilogue, they close the game and don't play it anymore. Completing 100% a game is by itself something that hardcore gamers go for, not casual gamers. So in that sense, it doesn't matter if you decide to make new game + a condition for 100% completion.
 

TheoAllen

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I'm not a completionist, so it never bothers me. I do however try to make it as complete as possible, but when I see it is impossible to complete either it requires a new game or it is just difficult to accomplish, I move on. If the 100% completion requires a new game, then what I see is not I'm doing a new game to complete the 100% completion, but it is if I want to replay the game. And while at it, I might try a different route to try.

However, I do have a tendency to like 100% completion in one go. Probably you just need to have an extra effort to get them all. The easiest example is Fallout 4 perk system. You can choose all of the perks, it just you have to grind them all up to the point you probably get bored before you even get there. I think it is more fair, rather than a hard no for one playthrough.
 

Kes

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This isn't a question about the design of a particular mechanic.

I've moved this thread to General Discussion. Please be sure to post your threads in the correct forum next time. Thank you.

 

CrowStorm

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As a general statement, I could not give like even 1/8th of a fudge about 100%ing a game.

That said, there are some games that are extremely short so to wring the price worth of content out of them you have to play them over and over, which becomes addictive, as you replay every level over and over until you are satisfied you have done it perfectly (I am thinking of the latest Hitman games which have like 12 missions between them but which I sunk at least a thousand hours into), and I think that stimulates the same brain...parts...as trying to 100%.

I actively avoided experiencing 100% of the content with the same character in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim because it has always seemed ridic to me that one character would be the chosen one of every prophecy and the hero/savior of every guild and the grandmaster of every house and also oh yeah the Dragonborn or the Nerevarine or whatever the hell you were in Oblivion, Patirck Stuart I guess.
 
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Finnuval

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I'm not a completionist however when it is more about different paths with different stories/pov's like Fire Emblem Three houses I am a sucker for those and will replay all of it. In those cases I also enjoy it if there are other things still out there to collect and see.
So to me, if implemented well, not being able to 100% it in one go PLUS the addition of different POV's/storylines is a big plus. Not being able to 100% it and no new storylines = I don't care xD
 

HumanNinjaToo

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I have found over the years that, despite my best efforts, I do not replay games very often. I would prefer to 100% a game the first time around. I do not like miss-able content, I want to be able to play through the game at leisure and then go back and find the things I may have missed. I really dislike when presented with 'either or' scenarios when it comes to collecting loot. That being said, I'm not going to not play a good game for any of those reasons.
 

BK-tdm

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Im biased on this subject so short answer: Yes, but depends on the game and what it offers.

I only obssess with 100% completion on metroidvania like games (notably Metroid Fusion, Castlevania Symphony of the night and Castlevania Order of Ecclessia)most of the stuff done by Platinum Games (bayoneta/DmC) or anything with "Megaman" on the title as:
  1. 100% It can be done in a single run/save (if you take your time)
  2. Its not obligatory or necessary it can even be skipped for "minimum power up runs" but reaching the maximum power achievable to see what the character is really capable of at max power in your hands is a tempting option (also to stomp bosses if they're replayable) specially if they show you how maximum power works in a "gets depowered because of plot" intro or cutscenes.
In other games is optional, some "achievement hunts" are done for the rewards like the banner patterns you get in Diablo 3 or the mounts/pets/titles in WoW, keeping in mind these achievements+reward is designed to extend the life of the game giving extra "challenges" to existing content and is an acceptable completionist bait, so if you want to be called "Noobmaster - Champion of the Reindeers" you have to play the xmas seasonal content, not just once but a lot of times, that is up to the player.
 
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Aside from casual gamers who simply enjoy the story in a RPG, I like to divide the rest into speed gamers versus completionists. A new game plus option in combination with hard choices to make for good extras in the game (meaning they can help but aren't necessary for progress) can cover a lot of bases in this case.
 

k_mckenzie

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Do you hate when games do this? Or do you find it incentive for replayability?
I love it! But I used to also enjoy playing Chrono Trigger a dozen times to get rainbow shell in every slot. I liked playing every race in World of Warcraft so I could explore new starting zones. I liked how Saga Frontier had you choose from several storylines. I'm a huge fan of replayability, and if that means I have to go through multiple times to see everything, then so be it.

I've always interpreted it as an immersion tactic:
"This world is so big!—there's no way I can do it all in one play!"
 

Cythera

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Hmm, this depends on the situation and how it's presented for me. Games that offer choices that impact events later on, I will replay to see all the outcomes - example, does killing this NPC change anything? Will his family come attack me later for vengeance? Love it! Hey, who knows, maybe killing that NPC set off a series of chain reactions that has blocked me from getting a certain item - it's all about consequences and outcomes, so go ahead, I made the choice and now I get to game with it!
If it's just a choice the game asks me to make without context or my action, such as "here, pick between this sword and this axe! You'll never get the other one, though!", not so great. I didn't HAVE to kill the NPC; I made a choice because I wanted to see the outcome. Here, the game is forcing me to choose one. In my opinion, if you're going to do that, at least make the axe available via difficult side quest or whatnot later not.
Summary: If I, the player, make a choice that has consequences and blocks my 100% completion, I will love every second of it. If the game forces a choice without context, just tells me to pick one or the other and offers no way to obtain the other, I feel...duped.
In regards to the magic system, I have no strong opinion there. Learn Fireball or Lightning Bolt, but you can't learn both? Okay, so we're on a skill tree and I have to decide how I want to build my character. Learn one now, and come back later to pay a bigger cost to learn the other? Sure, look how strong I can get for fun! Just make it clear which one it is, and I'll nod and smile.
 

CraneSoft

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Personally I like 100% completion, but only on games which I know is realistically possible to achieve in a single playthrough without having to resort to guides or require an enormous amount of extra effort (and time), which unfortunately, not very many of them.

For games where there are different routes to take or choices to make, I only do it when the "routes" actually offer new content and/or unique storylines I did not get to experience the first time around. Unfortunately, most RPGs simply do not have diverging paths and force you to replay 99% of the same game just to fight maybe an extra boss or two, get a few pieces of unique equipment/magic or dialogues to fill up that one blank space in your bestiary, not something the average casual gamer would sink another 20 hours into instead of moving on to another game.
 

Milennin

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It depends on the type of game to me, but I guess I'd lean towards not getting everything in a single run. It lets you make choices that impact the way you play the game, which can be nice (at least if both options are equally viable and useful). Games that let you get everything are nice if they have like collections that keep track of all the stuff you get, so it feels extra good when you get all the stuff.
 

Tai_MT

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What is your take on games that don't allow 100% completion in one run?
It depends largely on execution of it. However, more often than not... I hate it. If your game wasn't good the first time, why should I have to play it again to get the opposite side of the story?

I have this issue with a lot of achievements. "Pick this side and this other side of a story". "Do the work to get this achievement, but it locks you out of all the others unless you have a guide to tell you how to do something really convoluted you wouldn't know about on your first run".

More often than not, the execution of a "can't get everything the first run" is done very poorly and subsequent runs aren't much easier or much faster... they're even more tedious 'cause you've done all this junk before.

So! Unless you plan on a "New Game Plus" in which I get to keep everything and can rofl-stomp your gameplay in order to get the other things I wanted... I generally have no interest in it as it's usually executed poorly.

Games where certain items are missable either due to a route you take or a choice you make.
Depends on the item. It genuinely upset to miss that spear in Final Fantasy 12 because I did what all newbies do and just open chests. This same issue reared its head in Final Fantasy 9 with a specific sword you can't get unless you rush the entire game to get it.

If the item is something I don't care about (consumable of some kind, equippable that isn't worth anything and other stuff outshine it later), then it doesn't matter. But, if we're talking "ultimate weapon of ultimate power"... I tend to be annoyed.

Example 1:
in Final Fantasy 6, you can choose between the Ragnarok esper, or the Ragnarok Sword. if you choose the sword, you cannot get the Esper and there will always be an empty slot in your esper list.
Generally speaking, if you pick the sword, you have made a massive mistake. Ragnarok has an ability that turns monsters into items, including highly rare and exceptionally powerful items... and even some equipment. It is difficult (or sometimes impossible) to obtain these any other way. All you get from the sword is the ability to take it to the colleseum and upgrade it to the "Illumina", which is the strongest sword in the game... but... is ultimately not all that great by the time you obtain it, since your characters are likely pushing level 50 by this point and you could've probably beaten the game 10 levels ago. Likewise, Ultima as a magic spell (which you get from Ragnarok, or the Cursed Shield if you fix the Cursed Shield) being casted as "X-Magic" and the Mimicked to get it to cast 4 times... Is infinitely better than a single sword.

In short, that entire choice is a "newbie trap". Only "newbie" players will pick the Sword, and everyone else will pick the Esper because it's 4000000000% better as an option.

Example 2:
in Fire Emblem 3 houses, certain weapons are only available on certain routes. EG: You cannot get Edelgarde's relic weapon on Dmitri or Claude's route. There is no inventory carry-over in NG+ so it's impossible for you to collect every relic no matter what route you pick.
Since I only dabble in that game and have no idea how useful a Relic weapon even is... I just might not care. I've played other Fire Emblem games and honestly one weapon is as good as another in them. So long as you're doing the "exploit the rock paper scissors weaknesses", it doesn't matter what kind of weapon you're using. You're basically guaranteed to kill most units in a single hit, even if you're 3 levels under them.

So, unless the Relic adds something to the game... can't say I'd really care in this instance.

Do you hate when games do this? Or do you find it incentive for replayability? Or do you have no strong opinion one way or another?
Incentive for replayability for me does not stem from "I didn't get 100% completion on the first run". More often than not, it stems from "was the game actually fun?".

Free tip though... I rarely play a game more than once. Once I'm done... I tend to be done. I often have little desire to trudge through a 20 hour game again. I rarely have the desire to trudge through a 10 hour game again.

I don't often care that you have 20 branching story paths... or that I could make one decision here this time and another decision here next time... or I could get weapon A or weapon B... I just don't really care all that much.

But, if your game was fun, and it was good... I would probably play it again. I played Fallout 3 a grand total of 3 times. Why? I had fun. Likewise, I the gameplay options presented (not the choices) were interesting enough for me to do things again. Finally, I was getting better at "min/maxing" on each new run. I fumbled through my first run as a "good guy" and horribly optimized my character... My "neutral" character did a lot better in terms of optimization and I swapped from plasma weaponry to shotguns and pistols. My "evil" character did the best... maxing out every stat the game even had as well as being a full melee build (never once ran stealth in the entire game). I had fun with the gameplay options, and not with the choices presented to me.

I did the same in Fallout New Vegas. 1 run for each faction achievement (and the Survival Achievement was knocked out on my very first run). By the time I finished my last run, I was min/maxed to the teeth and once again a melee build with no stealth... and nigh invulnerable to everything.

Fallout 4 though? Yeah, I made one run... save scummed at the proper place for the ending choices... and never went back to it once I was done.

That's just how I am. I prefer to replay a game because I'm having fun or because there's an entirely new way to play the game, which changes the entire gameplay experience.

I played my first run of Skyrim as a heavy duty 2-handed melee fighter. It was fun, but my next run was as a super sneaky stealth thief guy who got so broken that I could be in combat, a dude hit me in the face, and then I duck and walk 3 feet and the guy who slapped me in the face would lose me. That build was fun too. I tried a third run as a wizard... and hated every moment of it... so I put the game down and never played it again. Now, imagine if I had tried to play as a wizard the first run.

If I was to make a Magic system where it wasn't possible to learn every spell in the game in one playthrough, would that impact your enjoyment negatively? Or conversely, would you rather be able to collect everything in a single run and become overpowered?

Discuss.
It largely depends on execution. Rarely have I ever needed "every spell in the game". More often than not, I just needed the "most powerful spell" in the game. I'm not going to care if I missed Fire 2 when I have "Ultimate Fire of Flaming Flare Apocalypse". I'm just not.

It depends on what I'm collecting and what its value is to the game or the run. If what I miss would significantly impact the gameplay if I didn't have it... I'll probably worry about it. For example... if I missed a ring that reflected 20% of all spells that hit me. I'd probably reset the game to get it, because that'd be valuable in terms of gameplay to me. But, if it's a choice between 20% of all spells are reflected OR 20% of all physical hits are countered... I'd probably just make the choice and keep moving. One option is going to be more valuable to me personally (or maybe mechanically, depending on how your game is designed), so I'm not going to be miffed at not getting both. I perceive one as already being better than the other. Why would I want the second best option as well as the first best option?

Again, largely depends on execution of the choices and content. And, well, execution of the game. If the game isn't fun, I don't care what you have for content, I'm not replaying it. I probably won't even finish it.
 

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