On Weapon Choices: Multiple Options or One Type per Character?

[BloodletterQ]

Hey everyone.

Wondering what our opinions as RPG Makers and gamers are regarding the options of weaponry. Multiple weapon types per character is fun but doesn't make them differ in the end. The same could be said for each character being limited to a single weapon type as well I suppose.

This may also relate to the elements topic but if each character has their own weapon type in a game with physical elements, would the latter be pointless since everyone would be limited to one physical element? I know Persona 3 has exclusive weapon types and physical elements.

 

[Wavelength]

I've done it both ways.  I think it depends on what your goals are in your combat design:

• One weapon type per character is good for giving each character distinct combat identities and asking the player to make smart choices in team composition - but it can feel a bit limiting.
• Equip any weapon with any character is good for allowing the player to customize the characters to the identity they want the character to have and asking the player to come up with smart character builds - but it tends to take away from distinct character identities.
• In the middle is having characters each be able to equip a couple of different types of weapons each.

This may also relate to the elements topic but if each character has their own weapon type in a game with physical elements, would the latter be pointless since everyone would be limited to one physical element? I know Persona 3 has exclusive weapon types and physical elements.

I think the point of doing this in games like P3 are to make it so that a different subset of characters will be strong or vulnerable in any given combat.  This is not necessarily to force the player to use different team compositions (since you have to leave the Tartarus to swap characters), but I think it's to make it so that the player needs to use slightly different strategies in battle - a battle where Yukari is your main threat is going to feel a little different than a battle where Akihiko is your main threat.

 

[Fernyfer775]

For story purposes, I like sticking to a certain weapon type per character. It wouldn't make much sense for my Warrior to pick up a "Holy Rod of Healing" and my White Mage to pick up a "Battle Axe of Rending". I feel like it gives them more character to stick to one type. Now, this isn't the case with all games, and it really depends on what you're going for.

If it's a rogue-like, dungeon crawler, sandbox game, or even games like Disgaea, where your character's aren't necessarily stuck to being one class-type, then being able to use multiple weapon types makes sense. 

 

[BloodletterQ]

@Fernyfer775

Makes sense and the customization comes from the tarot cards my characters equip for magic.

 

[Fernyfer775]

A lot of it boils down to the types of skills the character has. If in your game, your character has a ton of melee type moves which deal damage based off of Attack power, why give the option for that character to equip as staff that only increases magic attack? Any player who knows what they're doing isn't going to bother equipping the staff unless there's a very good reason for it.

 

[Chrispy]

This may also relate to the elements topic but if each character has their own weapon type in a game with physical elements, would the latter be pointless since everyone would be limited to one physical element? I know Persona 3 has exclusive weapon types and physical elements.

This wouldn't be that difficult at all,

A Warrior could use Axes, Hammers, and Picks. The animations of each weapon type is generally the exact same, so it cuts down on the time it takes to make them, plus, each one has a different physical element (Slashing for axes, blunt for hammers, piercing for picks)

An Archer can also have all three of those physical elements, just by the arrows they equip. A broad-head arrow could do slashing, a pointed arrow does piercing, and a blunt arrow could deal blunt damage.

A Lancer wielding pole-arms can also have any of those three elements, depending on the type of pole-arm they havce equipped. A Halberd for example can be slashing because of the axe shaped head. Some had a pointed tip still, but many didn't, like the Lochaber. For Blunt damage, War hammers could be used, since a majority of them were actually just pole-arms with hammers at the end instead of a blade.

 

[ArcaneEli]

The Way I'm doing it now is allowing certain characters to wield different weapons based on their personality and role in a battle.

Berserkers can wield: Axes, Claws, Sabers

Knights can wield: Swords, Spears, Bows

Hunters can wield: Daggers, Bows, Swords

Mages can wield: Stave, Rod, Mace, Bow

 

[HeathRiley]

I like ArcaneEli's post. I definitely think a specific type of weapon or limited selection on weapons for character or class is best. This provides variety between different chars for identity and can allow for a developer to have more control.

Having said that, if you're going for a sandbox or create a class vibe, if you open up selections there it could be beneficial.

 

[stupid enough to like FF13]

I tend to think that "everyone uses a unique weapon type" works best when the characters are actually visible in battle or the weapons themselves are more stylized. My current project has six weapon types divided among four party members with 2-3 options each, giving the player the choice to emphasize on a character's strengths or round out their flaws.

I tend to dislike physical elements unless they only exist as damage boosts. Especially with games like SMT, where your party members' lack of elemental flexibility is a constant source of cheap difficulty.

 

[Euphony]

I personally prefer one weapon type per character just based on workload alone. I'm using Holder-style battlers which include the characters' weapons in the sprite sheet, unlike RM2k3/MV style where the weapons are a separate graphic. Also the way each character's battler moves is unique and influenced by the kind of weapon they're wielding. It would be a lot of extra work to make multiple battlers for each character, each with a different weapon, and implement a whole system to switch the graphics based on which weapon type is currently equipped, then on top of that making sure there are no errors in said system. @_@

Of course, if I were using RM2k3/MV style battlers, I'd probably throw in different weapon types. But I wouldn't go too crazy with the variety. The options still need to make sense in regards to the character and their combat role, like having an archer choose between longbow and crossbow or a mage between staff and wand. If the weapons become too varied, like say choosing between a boomerang and a longsword, you have to start changing skills based on which weapon type is equipped, and again, that can lead to a lot of extra work when you just wanna get your game done. xD

 

[BloodletterQ]

@Euphony

Very true. Prettier battlers do call for a single weapon type.

If I do that...

-Should I still make physical elements?

-What if multiple characters share a weapon type?

 

[Prescott]

The way we're doing it in our game is giving each class 2 different weapon types to choose from, which effectively provides 2 different play styles for each of the 4 classes. I think you shouldn't have too much of a variety of weapon types as it's either overwhelming or gives less reason to use one class over another. At least, in a traditional RPG. It doesn't give weight to what classes you have in your party if you have too much.

Then again, if you have too little, the player will feel like there's not much variety for them to pick from. 

 

[arcthemonkey]

I tend to dislike physical elements unless they only exist as damage boosts. Especially with games like SMT, where your party members' lack of elemental flexibility is a constant source of cheap difficulty.

I definitely wouldn't call it "cheap" difficulty. Forcing a player to make meaningful strategic decisions in order to succeed is the opposite of cheap in my mind. But I might be biased because my game is almost entirely based around multiple damage types, multiple armor types, multiple elements, and multiple status effects creating what essentially amounts to combat puzzles, with in-combat equipment swapping and class changing. Something like a more complicated version of FFX. Like... how the hell do I kill this thing? I need to hit it with a blunt weapon coated in acid? Fortunately, I have this vinegar-element warhammer. Or whatever.

For the general topic at hand, I am generally not a fan of gear-based progression per se, so I tend towards minimal equipment slots (I like to do 1 or 3 for swappable customization), giving each character a "story weapon" (The Monado!), or not even building the weapon as an equipped item. From there, I like the idea of being able to power up or customize the "weapon" by some other means.

 

[Espon]

I usually just stick with 1 or 2 types of weapons depending on the game.  The characters I design are usually proficient in their main weapon, so while they might be a master at the sword, they're unable to fight properly with a heavy battleaxe, so they stick with what they're good at.

 

[Tai_MT]

Personally, i'm a big fan of more options.  But, I like each option to do something somewhat unique.  I don't want the only difference between two types of weapons being their stats.  I'm sorry, but that's a quick way to just make players hit "Optimize" and walk away.

Your character can equip a Dagger or a Katar.  On paper, they have the same stat layout, just in different places.  Daggers give +1 Attack while Katars give +1 Speed.  Basically the same.  Or are they?  Daggers always carry a chance to inflict a status ailment on an enemy (and most enemies are weak to at least one status ailment, yep, that includes bosses).  But, Katars carry a chance to Counter-Attack each time the character takes damage.  This then kind of becomes a choice for the player to make.  How do they want to have their characters operate in combat?  What about Halberds and Great Axes?  Halberds are 2 handed weapons that offer a balance of four stats (which leaves most fairly low, but can be useful) while Great Axes generally outstrip the strongest weapons by 35% more Attack power at the cost of about 35% less chance to hit.  So, do you take something that could offer two forms of defense in decent amounts, as well as two types of attack in decent amounts...  Or do you take something with a decent chance to miss, but does a crapload more damage when it does hit?

I like choices for players.  As a player, I like making choices.  I like when all the stats mean something and all the abilities mean something.  I like having to decide if I want a higher critical hit rate and critical hit damage or just more attack power.  I like deciding if I want more attacks a turn for much lower damage or one really strong attack at the end of everyone's turn.

​Options can make combat more interesting, in my opinion, and can make character customization more interesting.

 

[Lowell]

My games built around characters having 2-3 weapon types, each with their own distinct skills and mechanics so that they can change their roles in combat. Each weapon type also reinforces a number of skills that are always available, regardless of the weapon type utilized.

Of course depending on how your games built, a single weapon type per character may be better suited than multiple weapon types or being able to utilize anything. Restricted weapon types can allow for easier designs regarding the character not only in combat, but also in artwork and promotional material as you have a simpler foundation on which to build on. Games such as Romancing SaGa on the other hand probably has the least restrictions regarding equipment due to the game allowing you to build your party with who you want using what you want.

 

[littleyuri]

It also has something to do with classes... It wouldn't make sense for an archer class to be wielding a great sword as big as Cloud Strife's for most of the game. And still manage to call himself an archer...

The Way I'm doing it now is allowing certain characters to wield different weapons based on their personality and role in a battle.

Berserkers can wield: Axes, Claws, Sabers

Knights can wield: Swords, Spears, Bows

Hunters can wield: Daggers, Bows, Swords

Mages can wield: Stave, Rod, Mace, Bow

This is an option that is good.

What Wavelength said also makes sense. Just look at Suikoden's 108 hero list... Some are the same while a whole lot are different. It builds up character identity. (I know in suikoden you just upgrade your stuff, but the character identity still stands.)

In Chrono Cross too, you associate the swallows, (the double spear like weapon) to Serge. Frying pans to Leena. Knives and daggers to Kid and so on and so forth. 

 

[TheGamedawg]

I go for one type of weapon per character.  It's less confusing.  I also notice that characters are usually a bit more iconic when you can put a finite weapon with them.

 

[sartha]

I prefer to go with logic... warriors are trained in the use of several different weapon types just in case they need it... mages would have limited combat training... but at the same time I also think that certain classes should have bonuses with certain weapon types... example a warrior might use a staff as a big club but a mage might fire certain spells from them... etc.

 

[jdub87]

The Way I'm doing it now is allowing certain characters to wield different weapons based on their personality and role in a battle.


Berserkers can wield: Axes, Claws, Sabers


Knights can wield: Swords, Spears, Bows


Hunters can wield: Daggers, Bows, Swords


Mages can wield: Stave, Rod, Mace, Bow

My opinion is close to this^


I prefer characters/classes that can use weapon types that have some overlap with each other. I honestly think the rule of thumb for any given weapon type should be:


More than one character/class should be able to use this, but not everyone.


Why? When weapon types are limited to just one class, you're playing a dangerous game of forsaking the RNG gods in your game. Yes! I got a claw of awesomeness! Cool, anther claw of awesomeness! Oh, another claw of awesomeness? I wish I had gotten a bow. Having some flexibility in items helps to make sure no drop is a disappointment.


On the other hand, if every class can use every weapon type, they tend to lose their flavor. It also creates a lot of work if you want to really polish attack animations and whatnot.


Just my $.02