One-time chance factors

[laaghisce]

For context, this would be in a long, open-world styled RPG.

Whether it's a key item or right-or-wrong dialogue choice, how does this sound if there was a one time chance for these factors?

These factors would affect things like the RPG's ending and/or bonus content (ex: more dungeons, superbosses, etc) and would only have one opportunity to obtain these factors.

The question might sound silly to some but I imagine since this would be open-world, the player would be able to back-track. Since he/she has the opportunity to go back to anywhere they've already been to, would it be fair for these factors to be a one time chance?
 

I was thinking it would make sense if it was during a story event (ex: dialogue, quick-time event), but I am unsure about key items or dungeons.

For factors such as key items or dungeons, I was thinking it would give the game more replay value if the player missed out on them but at the same time, the player could have had many hours invested and would not like to go through the entire game to obtain these factors.

 

[RetroNutcase]

Personally, I think making it possible to permanently miss stuff of major importance is a big no no in an open ended/open world RPG. It's one thing if your RPG is designed heavily around branching paths/choices like Witcher 2, where you have completely different story arcs based on your choices. This kind of setup is one that pretty much ensures multiple playthroughs. However, in a game like Skyrim, being permanently locked out of a questline because of a bad choice you weren't aware of is a big no no as one "playthrough" could be hundreds of hours.

It's one thing if you're made aware that a choice will lock you out of things. It's another if you make a bad call in dialogue or something and suddenly you realize 'Oh, well, you can't get the Sword of Slaying Everything anymore! Oh well! There go your 30 hours!" with no way to undo it and had no prior warning.

If you intend to have things that lock the player out of content, you need to have signs/warnings the player WILL be locked out of the content. Or at least provide a good alternative. IE, do this, get awesome thing A, or do this and get awesome thing B.

 

[Zoltor]

Yea, I think it makes perfect sense.

The side quest I have that gives you access to my major side quest hub can technically be done any time once available. However certain side quest are only unlockable/available during certain parts of the game.

One of these limited time side quest will give you access to a secret char, a lot of bonus story revolving said character's interaction with you other party members, and even additional locations you wouldn't otherwise ever find out about.

Stuff like that, helps create a very robust/dynamic world, and story.

 

[RetroNutcase]

Yea, I think it makes perfect sense.

The side quest I have that gives you access to my major side quest hub can technically be done any time once available. However certain side quest are only unlockable/available during certain parts of the game.

One of these limited time side quest will give you access to a secret char, a lot of bonus story revolving said character's interaction with you other party members, and even additional locations you wouldn't otherwise ever find out about.

Stuff like that, helps create a very robust/dynamic world, and story.

It can, but the question there becomes, how much are you clued into the fact this exists? Are there NPCs who can point you in the right direction? Story events that say "Hey, this might be worth looking into" or similar? 

The problem with missable content is that if you make it too easy to miss, people may never even catch onto it. That's one thing if it's meant to be some massive secret you need to work for, versus a massive extra chunk of game that is optional. If you make a limited time sidequest too hard to even know about, when it starts, when it ends prematurely, you end up with a TVTropes classic: "Guide Dang It!" Basically, a situation where you practically have to have a strategy guide to know something exists, or how to do actually do it correctly.

 

[laaghisce]

Personally, I think making it possible to permanently miss stuff of major importance is a big no no in an open ended/open world RPG. It's one thing if your RPG is designed heavily around branching paths/choices like Witcher 2, where you have completely different story arcs based on your choices. This kind of setup is one that pretty much ensures multiple playthroughs. However, in a game like Skyrim, being permanently locked out of a questline because of a bad choice you weren't aware of is a big no no as one "playthrough" could be hundreds of hours.

It's one thing if you're made aware that a choice will lock you out of things. It's another if you make a bad call in dialogue or something and suddenly you realize 'Oh, well, you can't get the Sword of Slaying Everything anymore! Oh well! There go your 30 hours!" with no way to undo it and had no prior warning.

If you intend to have things that lock the player out of content, you need to have signs/warnings the player WILL be locked out of the content. Or at least provide a good alternative. IE, do this, get awesome thing A, or do this and get awesome thing B.

Great points, this gave me a realization of how this can be frustrating to anyone. Oh man, especially bringing up skyrim; I would hate to re-do a character for missing out on something amazing. ;;

I brought this topic up in the first place because of games that have one-chance stuff like Silent Hill, but looking back I should have thought this might not be a good idea, two completely different styles of gameplay.   

Although I might consider that last point, if I do implement something like that then it would just occur rarely.

 

[Zoltor]

It can, but the question there becomes, how much are you clued into the fact this exists? Are there NPCs who can point you in the right direction? Story events that say "Hey, this might be worth looking into" or similar? 

The problem with missable content is that if you make it too easy to miss, people may never even catch onto it. That's one thing if it's meant to be some massive secret you need to work for, versus a massive extra chunk of game that is optional. If you make a limited time sidequest too hard to even know about, when it starts, when it ends prematurely, you end up with a TVTropes classic: "Guide Dang It!" Basically, a situation where you practically have to have a strategy guide to know something exists, or how to do actually do it correctly.

Well the initial side quest that leads to the main side quest hub city, while optional, is outright talked about in the main story(It's so not a secret in of its self), and is going to be made clear about how this side quest hub works, plus how the "different types" of side quests function, which will no doubt also mention that there are some side quests can only be done during certain times.

Also upon entering the sub quest hub city for the first time, It's going to be suggested that you revisit after every quest you complete, main story, and otherwise, since new side quests become available on a regular basis.

 

[RetroNutcase]

Great points, this gave me a realization of how this can be frustrating to anyone. Oh man, especially bringing up skyrim; I would hate to re-do a character for missing out on something amazing. ;;

I brought this topic up in the first place because of games that have one-chance stuff like Silent Hill, but looking back I should have thought this might not be a good idea, two completely different styles of gameplay.   

Although I might consider that last point, if I do implement something like that then it would just occur rarely.

I think stuff you can miss works best in games that are replay friendly. Ones you're going to want to re-play multiple times to see how outcomes can change, like Undertale.

I won't spoil anything because Undertale is too great to spoil, but I'll say this: My god the number of times you're going to want to replay it even after getting all the major endings. There's so much stuff you can miss on an initial playthrough, but the game only takes a couple hours to beat once you know how to get through the main story. So it's perfect in that way.

 

[Wavelength]

I like this kind of mechanic in general but I feel like it works better for gameplay than for narrative, especially if one route is qualitatively better than the other.

For example, if you were going to tell me I could only capture Beedrill or Butterfree and not the other, I'd enjoy making that choice.  I wouldn't be thrilled if I found out later I accidentally missed a sidequest which was my only chance to catch Articuno, but it wouldn't bother me so much.

On the other hand, while I'm okay with having multiple endings like Main Character falls in love with Spunky Mage vs. Main Character falls in love with Demure Healer, it would really bother me if missing some sidequest caused the ending to be World was destroyed by Big Bad and Spunky Mage and Demure Healer both died.