Online multiplayer in RMVXAce, is it possible?

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Imploded Tomato

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So say two people wanted to fight each other online or do a coop quest in identical RPG Maker VX Ace projects on two separate computers. Is it possible through scripting or the use of an extra .dll file to implement such a feature? The reason I ask this question is because I want to have these kind of online features in my current game project. Thanks for any information in advance, peace :rock-left:   BD   :rock-right:
 

boldpaste2

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Yes and No.

I'm sure its possible through new dlls and a lot of scripting but the task itself is such a huge (and expensive) undertaking that I doubt we will ever see one for vx ace. Making such a system would require the knowledge of networking and programming which not to many people here I know have.
 

??????

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The link to PiNG in my sig has an online connection and patching system with an online highscore feature. Adding additional online features such as two folk going on a quest isnt really that much harder... :)
 

Andar

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Is it possible through scripting or the use of an extra .dll file to implement such a feature?
Theoretically yes - but the amount of work needed is extremely high, and as a result all past tries are either failed or incomplete.
Dekita's Ping is probably farthest into development, but it still falls short of the functions needed for full online multiplayer (which would be more than just exchanging info on quests).


There already are online scripts for older RM's, but I think similiar scripts for Ace are still a minimum of one or two years of work short of existance.
 

Sato1999

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But wasns't Ragnarok online made with rpg maker XP?

Or i had been fooled my entire life?
 

??????

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Yea, Andar is correct.

There are a few things darted around that can assist but overall, nothing is close enough to give a full mmo experience..

I'm currently trying various thing to increase security. imo - until that can be done there aint no point in trying to do any great online feature as it could be hacked into far too easily. Personally - my next 'big online feat' will be adding some kind of turn based 2 player match-up feature. Where by you can scan for a player to play against and then take turns each in a battle like environment.

But ya, if you are hoping for that full mmo experience, your gonna have to have some major coin to splash on a powerfull server. My current server takes around 3-6 seconds to retrieve information (granted some of this time is ruby code processing) - for actual real time gameplay, you need that to be MUCH!!!! quicker. :)
 

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Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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My current server takes around 3-6 seconds to retrieve information (granted some of this time is ruby code processing) - for actual real time gameplay, you need that to be MUCH!!!! quicker. :)
Yeah, you'd want as less delay as possible...
 

??????

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Well, each millisecond of time = lag for players. So yea, as little as possible sounds as good as a description as any :D
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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I'd want to say no delay, but IDK if that is possible... XD
 

??????

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Nahh, even if every party involved had the best of technology and internet connection download speed and stable connection there would still be time consumed during the process of requests and such. Depending on the speed of the code your using would also have impact. :)
 

Imploded Tomato

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It's a shame that no one has implemented any methods for online play in RPG Maker VX Ace, It would be worth investing in and many people would love to use these kinds of features in their games. To bad a small group of RMVXAce users can't get together and raise some funds to contract a programmer to do it. 
 

Tsukihime

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I'm currently trying various thing to increase security. imo - until that can be done there aint no point in trying to do any great online feature as it could be hacked into far too easily. Personally - my next 'big online feat' will be adding some kind of turn based 2 player match-up feature. Where by you can scan for a player to play against and then take turns each in a battle like environment.
Do you have concrete examples of problems that you foresee in client-server MMO's as a result of security issues?

It's a shame that no one has implemented any methods for online play in RPG Maker VX Ace, It would be worth investing in and many people would love to use these kinds of features in their games. To bad a small group of RMVXAce users can't get together and raise some funds to contract a programmer to do it.
Here's a starting point


https://www.tilt.com/
 
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Andar

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Do you have concrete examples of problems that you foresee in client-server MMO's as a result of security issues?
Most MMO's have at least some aspects of competing and ranking players. And there are always people around who want to cheat to get top ranking.
In Singleplayer, a cheater only robs himself/herself of the game experience, but in Multiplayer that can destroy the balance for all other players as well - so the data needs to be better protected in multiplayer if said multiplayer should be interesting to players.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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Even if you manage to do it, with the way RM was made, I don't think it will be a really nice experience (at least comparing it to the online experience that you can have if you use other engines)... Even an "MMO" map made in wc3 might play a lot better than a full MMO game made in RM...
 
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Tsukihime

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Most MMO's have at least some aspects of competing and ranking players. And there are always people around who want to cheat to get top ranking.


In Singleplayer, a cheater only robs himself/herself of the game experience, but in Multiplayer that can destroy the balance for all other players as well - so the data needs to be better protected in multiplayer if said multiplayer should be interesting to players.
This challenge exists for all MMO's. This is not a problem with RM. This is a problem with how you set up your client and server communication.


Example: you play a mini-game, and those scores are posted on the leaderboard.


You decide to implement it by playing the game, and after the game is finished, you send the score.


The server takes this score and assumes it is a legitimate score, and posts it up.


My solution as a cheater? I just hack my score and send it to the server.


Is this RM's fault? Is RM not secure enough to prevent me from opening cheat engine and modifying my score?


No, of course not. No amount of security is going to prevent someone from accessing memory directly. 

Even if you manage to do it, with the way RM was made, I don't think it will be a really nice experience (at least comparing it to the online experience that you can have if you use other engines)... Even an "MMO" map made in wc3 might play a lot better than a full MMO game made in RM...
What aspects of an RM game would take away from the online experience when you're using "other engines"?
 
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??????

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Do you have concrete examples of problems that you foresee in client-server MMO's as a result of security issues?
sure..

Lets say I have 3 basic online systems - 1 login, 2 highscore, 3 auction house.. All of these are very easy to code; however, all of these would also be fairly easy to comprehend (to someone with sufficient coding knowledge).

With the current level of RM security, there is no real protection against people obtaining these systems / delicate information from them. Once that information is available, who knows what one would wish to do...

Now, cheat engine may* be able to help with obtaining a higher 'highscore' but it isnt gonna help you with the cost of some item - which is determined by the server. But what if you hacked the system and where able to remove the actual price restriction - ie, remove the 'cant buy without enough coin'.. Suddenly you have one single player who has a huge advantage over all other players. 

Hell, PiNG had'nt even been released for a few hours and I had a few people sending me messages containing 'secure' server information (such as database locations..). -< which could have only been obtained via breaking into the game.

Now lets say you also had some pvp aspect in this game. Your player who hacked and basically has unlimited everything is surely going to annoy any other player who comes in contact with them. This creates an unhappy playing environment for others and in the end can cause severe detriment to your games success. :(
 

Tsukihime

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Hell, PiNG had'nt even been released for a few hours and I had a few people sending me messages containing 'secure' server information (such as database locations..). -< which could have only been obtained via breaking into the game.
In a server-client model, you need to consider how much control the client has over the game. There is a lot of literature on this topic given that online gaming is big business and people have real concerns when it comes to cheaters in competitive games.
On one extreme, you can have a very trustworthy server that just accepts whatever a client sends and assumes it's honest data. This is how a transaction might look


OoU1Yns.jpg



On the other extreme, you have a server that does not trust the client at all. The client can only send instructions from the player, and the server will determine whether it'll listen to you or not.


zoALUKq.jpg



You have a lot more work to do in a server-client game, because there are plenty of trade-offs depending on how much control you want to give the client. In a completely server-sided game, where the client's only job is to render the results of your actions, the only way that someone could cheat in your game is to hack your server directly. This obviously is very restrictive and may have huge performance implications (primarily network latency).


Now, if you are aware that RPG Maker data can be easily obtained, why are you putting your "secure" communication methods inside the scripts, where it is easily obtained?
 
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