only supports PNG files?

Discussion in 'RPG Maker MV' started by doranikofu, Oct 26, 2015.

  1. doranikofu

    doranikofu Veteran Veteran

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    I tried to use some jpg files for title image and battle back image. It will show file not found for *.png

    It looks like the engine only takes PNG files?

    The issue is that if you don't use transparent images, PNG usually generate unnecessarily larger files than jpg.
     
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  2. Seriel

    Seriel Veteran Member

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    What's wrong with png?
     
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  3. erikmidnatt

    erikmidnatt Mercenary Wizard possessed by an Evil Spirit Veteran

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    they already mentioned that png take up more file space than jpg. 
     
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  4. Chickenlump

    Chickenlump Veteran Veteran

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    There are programs such as pngcrush that can slim down the size of png files.

    I plan on using something like this towards the end of my project as a final 'slimming down' phase for distribution.
     
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  5. Kane Hart

    Kane Hart Elmlor.com Veteran

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    PNG is a lossless compression format. I guess that alone is the biggest reason.
     
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  6. Zalerinian

    Zalerinian Jack of all Errors Veteran

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    The editor itself doesn't support jpg files, however all export options end up running the game using a web browser. The desktop clients uses Node.js and NW.js, which provides the user with a stripped-down version of Google Chrome version 41. Since chrome supports jpeg files, they should appear fine in the game.

    To get the editor to let you pick the files, you'll have to rename them to *.jpg.png so that you can still tell they're jpegs, but the engine thinks they're pngs.
     
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  7. Hoppy

    Hoppy Veteran Veteran

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    JPG is disgusting for sprites.  If you want to start making sprites and icons you'll need to learn to deal with PNG or GIF. (although MV doesn't support GIF)
     
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  8. erikmidnatt

    erikmidnatt Mercenary Wizard possessed by an Evil Spirit Veteran

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    read the OP. title and battlebacks.
     
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  9. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    If file size is your only concern, then as well as pngcrush, which I haven't tried, there is also tinypng, which I have, and which reduces the file size by, typically, 70-80% without visual impact.
     
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  10. Kane Hart

    Kane Hart Elmlor.com Veteran

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    If you really inclined to use jpg you could run a third party program mass converts everything etc. Then just have someone maybe create plugin or maybe it has to be a core edit not sure that uses jpg instead. 

    Just not recommended since quality of your game will degrade period. 
     
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  11. KisaiTenshi

    KisaiTenshi Veteran Veteran

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    The editor doesn't support it because it leads to people shipping broken games. You should not be using lossy images in a 2D game. PNG is required due to the transparency necessity. Allowing the user to select any arbitrary image means users will ship games that don't work as expected on all advertised target platforms. The backgrounds are layered so they do in fact have transparancy. Note the difference between battlebacks2 and battlebacks1.

    No Japanese game out there prefers lossy image formats. Even going back to PC98 systems. Older games used masking files (the character generator uses them too) to allow fake chroma-key images, but the real benefit with PNG is how you can use transparency as transparency and not resort to "every other pixel" fake-translucency tricks.

    If would be a different case if the editor actually did the compression itself to make it idiot-proof.

    Now, as to how to make PNG files smaller without wrecking them, OptiPNG , PNGCrush , AdvanceCOMP do a fairly good job, often saving 20% by eliminating the unused chunks if you tell it to. However it is entirely possible to wreck the PNG files by over-optimization, as some optimization will remove transparency, or reduce the colors from 32bit to 8-bit palette without prompting, or even crop the image.

    However be aware that just because you can fool the editor into accepting things like JPEG, GIF or WEBP, doesn't mean that the game will work on all devices, or at equitable performance with all formats. PNG was created to get people to stop using GIF due to the patents on the LZO algorithm (which has since run out) , however because people try to create animated images with GIF, APNG or WEBP, they will be upset when they don't animate in the game engine. The game engine uses CANVAS, not the browser image tag. So these files are being treated the same as single uncompressed 32bit images regardless of the file compresssion used on disk.  

    The same thing can be said with the audio. Just because the OGG Vorbis(OGG) or AAC(M4A) audio is there, doesn't mean it only takes up 3MB of memory, no it takes up to 64MB of memory if it's 10 minutes long regardless of the compression used. Hence you should trim and loop audio tracks rather than have 10-minute long tracks. Both of these formats are lossy. It is possible to store lossless audio in both containers, but they don't have PNG-like compression.

    Anyway it's a major nitpick... only use PNG in your games, it will be less frustrating for you later.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2015
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  12. erikmidnatt

    erikmidnatt Mercenary Wizard possessed by an Evil Spirit Veteran

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    for things that don't require transparencies such as battle backs and titles(the half that doesn't), the workaround mentioned by Zalerinian above worked.

    name it image.jpg.png and the editor sees it, the game runs fine.

    People keep focusing on transparency, but not everything needs it. Nor does everything need to be loss-less.  Most people don't care about DVD audio either...

    I've enjoyed watching people say they can tell the difference in a tiff/png and a jpg photo and testing them and watching them fail. Sprites are different sure, transparencies, yep. But saying "japanese do this" isn't a good argument. Nor is comparing limited color palette art to full color art.

    Not everyone cares about mobile, and download size is still a valid concern for many people.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2015
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  13. doranikofu

    doranikofu Veteran Veteran

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    thanks for the answers. that make sense. I used to use PNG compression software too with RMXP. I will try one of those.
     
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  14. KisaiTenshi

    KisaiTenshi Veteran Veteran

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    I mentioned the detail about JP games because it's a JP developed game engine, thus it follows JP software design expectations that are also common with Nscripter and KAG3 based Visual Novel/ADV games. JP games don't use lossy compression because that produces compression artifacts on all curved lines.

    The bottom line is, there is no good reason to NOT use png.
     
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  15. RyanBram

    RyanBram Veteran Veteran

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    RPG Maker 2000, RPG Maker 2003, RPG Maker XP, RPG Maker VX, RPG Maker VX Ace.

    All of them are JAPANESE engine and support JPG.

    Huge filesize is a very good reason.
     
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  16. KisaiTenshi

    KisaiTenshi Veteran Veteran

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    It makes more sense to remove the files you are not going to use rather than package up everything you'll never use. I'm not sure why you don't understand that.
     
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  17. JosephSeraph

    JosephSeraph White Mage Restaff

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    for 99% of the cases you're doing something, anything at all, you want to forget JPG exists. Trust me.

    PNGs offer a perfect balance between quality and filesize.

    edit

    what?! these two only accept indexed PNGs or BMPs on 256 color mode! Which is why the filesize is so small, btw.

    Indexed PNGs take a really smalled filesize. I don't remember any RPG Maker allowing for poor quality JPG images on their games, thankfully.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2015
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  18. Point08

    Point08 Veteran Veteran

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    Something else not mentioned here about JPG, along with that lossy compression, goes the fact that every single time you open and then save, copy/paste, etc, a JPG file, you introduce artifact. This isn't always a problem, but it certainly can be.
     
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  19. Tsukihime

    Tsukihime Veteran Veteran

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    It's a good thing the image loaders do not load based on extension but instead properly scan the data header, but I guess we'll have to live with renaming.


    I use irfanview to do batch rename/conversion.

    When dealing with lossy encoding, devs should always work with original, raw files and export them as needed.


    It's like when people argue that script obfuscation is not good because it makes it difficult for others to read/edit.

    For a sufficiently complex image where zlib compression is only so effective, PNG's in general are 4x-5x larger than JPG counterparts (assuming compression rate of maybe 70-80 based on what paint.NET tells me)


    For battlebacks and titles that generally do not require any transparency, JPG is not a big deal. I'd rather have 100 KB title screens than 1 MB title screens as they are currently presented.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2015
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  20. gameusguyus

    gameusguyus Veteran Veteran

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    If you export your JPEGs to have a higher quality, artifacts are hardly a problem. Set the quality to 10 in photoshop and it's still 500KB less than the PNG file. I honestly don't see the issue in using JPEGs where transparency isn't required.

    [​IMG]
     
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