richter_h

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The way I want to simply put is if the player isn't too clingy with their extra valued gear, but making starting gear essentially have infinite or long-lasting than a better equipment would that be better option?

This can be answered with the context @Tai_MT has described in their BotW playthrough: high likely it will promote hoarding powerful equipment instead of using them they way you intended.

Like, players tend to want the battle done as fas as possible, and it can be achieved by using powerful weapons. Knowing those can break if they use the weapons willy nilly, huge chances that they will resort on weaker stuff so they can keep said powerful weapons as long as they can.

Yes, it can work, and yes, it can degrade the player's experience unless your aim is exactly that.
 

Jrrkein

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I'm tryin to make it balance, maybe adding portable repair kit as a drop or in shop so they can fix on the go
 

Tai_MT

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@Jrrkein

Here's your problem. You're concentrated now on "how can I make this work?" instead of the all-important question every dev needs to ask about every system in every game they ever make.

"What does this accomplish?"

That is, what is the point of your durability system? What do you want the player to be doing? How will it do that?

If you just want the durability system for the sake of having it (for example: Rule of Cool, one of the biggest pitfalls any dev ever runs into), then you could easily and quickly ditch it for something more practical and lose nothing.

Durability, in it's initial concept, existed to pull gold out of an MMO system that players would obtain by selling items, doing quests, and other activities in that MMO. More money in the system lead to inflation of that money. That is, easy to obtain items would go from 10 Currency in a marketplace to 1,000 Currency due to the massive amount of cash everyone had.

Likewise, in an MMO, all the equipment is "permanent" and doesn't "break" beyond rendering it unusable. So, the player must repair it between several dungeon runs or wipes. The cost of repair is never all that much either, because it isn't meant to hurt the progress of the player at all. It's just meant to pull money out of the economy.

In a singleplayer game, what is the purpose of repairing? What is the purpose of weapons that break permanently? What are you trying to accomplish with the system?

In Fallout 3 and New Vegas, durability was pointless except as a means for players to get rid of extra weapons (or at least, that's how I used it). It largely served no purpose, especially since you could eventually kill most enemies with a single hit and never really need to watch Durability. I'd pick up similar weapons and then "repair" to get rid of one version and slightly fix the other. Most players did this. Especially since selling weapons didn't net you all that much cash (in fact, selling anything didn't net you much cash at all).

in Breath of the Wild, Durability became pointless to those who were clever and annoying to those who were less clever. I've already outlined how that happened.

So, you need to stop thinking about, "how can I make this work?" until you have the answer of, "why do I even want this in my game?"

You need to answer what behavior you want your players to be engaging in with this mechanic and then WHY you want them to engage in that behavior.

I can explain both answers to you with every single system I've implemented in my game. Likewise, how all those decisions created synergy within the game.

For example: The player doesn't gain stats in my game through leveling up. They gain stats through completing quests (prompting them to talk to NPC's, do quests, and explore the world). But, they get larger boosts of stats through equipment (which prompts them to do quests, explore the world, and visit shops). There's synergy there. If a player wants power, they need to go exploring and need to do quests. Sitting around and grinding for cash or levels aren't going to help them out much at all. Both of these serve a larger purpose within the game. That is, my game is "narrative driven". So, to get players to engage with the narrative, almost everything feeds back into it. Almost everything is, "go do a quest" or "go explore" and "go talk to people". Combat is a system that also feeds off of this. The equipment and stats aren't designed to allow a player to "overpower" everything. They need to be swapping equipment in and out for situations in order to get the most out of it. Finding more equipment, buying more equipment, getting rewarded more stats, helps play into this.

When you want to implement a system into your game, you need to be able to answer these questions.

What purpose does this serve?
Why do you want players to engage in this behavior?
Does it actually make them engage in the behavior you want?

If you can't answer all of these questions, then you're better off just removing a feature or a system as it's broken and pointless and useless. Leaving it in, at that point, just means you're creating a subpar game.
 

Jrrkein

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I didn't think it thru first deeply about should I implemented, but me as player perspective I surely would frustrated just going back to town and ensure my best weapon is ready to be used, but that's put me in a decision to should I use this or keep it like a packrat and I could feel the player having that kind of pressure later on when they worn their gear badly during a long run
 

Milennin

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I've never played a game where equipment durability positively added to the experience. I can kind of understand it in MMO's, since equipment repairs act as a gold-sink, but for any other type of game, it seems like it's just a needless annoyance.
 

Jrrkein

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You're right about durabiltiy might add some annoyance just to get it fixed and back and forth, I honestly didn't think quite thru yet if I want that
 

kairi_key

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I feel like weapon durability works better in action setting. Breath of the Wild is probably the perfect gam e for that. Its combat is simple enough to make you not care too much about what weapon you're using and it adds to the "survival" feeling of the game.

In a more serious, in-depth, or tactical gameplay, weapon durability creates more hindrance because players would want their weapon to be reliable than not.

I can actually see it work on a more comedic game tho. A game where you don't have to think much of a battle and just go in for the lulz. Fight a battle with a derp looking enemy and suddenly all your weapon broke and now you end up with a sluggish ridiculous fist fight. That could be a funny experience in a funny game that doesn't take itself too seriously.
 

Tech

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Durability is never fun. You have to sink money and time into maintaining your gear, and you end up never using the cool stuff you earned because it'll break and you'll lose it.
Durability is always either a way to sink the huge (or worse, not so huge) ammounts of money an adventurer makes to keep them from becoming overpowered, like you're that Dungeon Master who gets upset when the heroes actually beat the dragon and steal its horde; you know the sort (in which case, just nerf the loot drops and your players won't feel like you're taking away their toys), or a misguided attempt at realism.
There's only one place I felt Weapon Decay was justified: "Fallout: New Vegas," which had most of your stuff be a) 200+ years old, or b) cobbled together out of junk and Happy Little Thoughts. To releive the burden, they had repair kits and item mods that increased their durability. Heck, you could teach one of your buddies (Raul the Ghoul) repair, and some stuff outright stopped breaking. And they got rid of it outright in FO4.
Another place it MIGHT be justified is a setting like Warhammer 40,000, where all the really good stuff is 10,000+ years old because nobody knows how to make the really good stuff any more and they repair it long past the point they ought to have gotten a new one (so your gun has the potential to break if you look at it funny, even ignoring that it's sapient and actively hates you. Yes that is canon, look up "Machine-Spirits" on Lexicanum).
 

Animebryan

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The only game I've ever played that uses this mechanic is the Final Fantasy Legend (SaGa) games for the Gameboy. It was NOT a fun experience, having my weapon break, then instead of continuing to grind for gold for a better weapon, I had just barely enough to simply buy another of the same weapon, preventing me from buying a better weapon like in most traditional RPGs.

They kept this god awful mechanic in the sequel, but by the 3rd game, Square realized that nobody liked it & did away with equipment durability, along with bringing back levels instead of random stat boosts after some battles.

Moral of the story: Don't do it! It sucks for the player & they'll probably just get fed up with it & quit.
 
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freakytapir

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Just a radical idea. Aren't consumables a bit like 'repairable items'?

So if durability on gear is a net loss, then why do we still have consumables that can run out?

Now, this is crazy talk, right, but what if you always had a 'Potion'? Probably with a recharge timer, or regenerating charges? Or drinking too much potion gives you downside, but you do have an infinite supply.
What if you just buy a 'Jug of antidote' and it's assumed to be enough for the rest of the game?
I mean, how much of those eye drops are you drowning your eyeballs in every time some plant thorws up some pollen?
I mean, it's a radical idea, but In think it's interesting to at least ponder on Why some times are limited use, and others are forever. Where do we draw the line?
If potions are a consumable, then so are arrows, right? then maybe we should track ammo. But no one really wants that. (Ask any Archer in any game where they enforce ammo. Especially if they take inventory space and the stacks are rather small.)

Or, another system that I stole from some other games, is just an 'upkeep' system. More expensive gear just increases your 'upkeep'. So you never really run out of durability, but the game drains a part of your gold rewards to simulate you having to repair the more expensive ****.
Or maybe streamline even more. You use a potion during cobat? You auto-buy a new one after battle, deducting the cost from the spoils. (I'm ot saying this is for every game, but I could see some games work like this. Heck FF VIII even let you just call a shop wherever you were, this is just a faster way to that).

As always, not all these are feasible, and not all these are good, but I think they're interesting.
 

Animebryan

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@freakytapir The whole point of consumables is that they are 'Consumed', meaning 1 time use. You don't consume equipment, unless you have some mechanic in your game where you can feed equipment to a monster character in your party in order to make them grow, like in the Lufia series.

There are exceptions though. The Dragon Quest series has a mechanic where simply using a piece of equipment like a weapon or item that generates a effect like a spell but doesn't consume the equipment or item, then there's the Wizard/Prayer Rings which restore MP upon use with a chance of breaking. This concept could be applied to a so called 'Jug of Antidote', where it either has a chance to expire or has a set number of uses. The Star Ocean series also has items & food that has a % chance of being consumed as well.

Keep in mind that there's usually a major price difference consumables & equipment. Consumables are usually 'dime a dozen' cheap while equipment that lasts longer have higher prices.
 

freakytapir

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@freakytapir The whole point of consumables is that they are 'Consumed', meaning 1 time use. You don't consume equipment, unless you have some mechanic in your game where you can feed equipment to a monster character in your party in order to make them grow, like in the Lufia series.
Except Equipment with a Durability Meter is like a consumable. "My stack of potions went from 38 to 37" is quite similar to 'My longswords Durability went from 38 to 37'. It's a number that ticks down as you use the item. They both don't matter until that number reaches Zero, and then I lose the item's function. Looking at classic consumables, they usually take one stack in a player's inventory. The inventory doesn't go 'Potion' 'Potion' 'Potion',..., it goes Potion x12. Buying my potion stack back up from Potion x12 to potion x50 is the same as repearing my Armor from Durability 12 to Durability 50.

I was just drawing the line the other way. If you have a game without Equipment durability, why not try the same for items that would normally be considered consumables?
 

Tai_MT

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Except Equipment with a Durability Meter is like a consumable. "My stack of potions went from 38 to 37" is quite similar to 'My longswords Durability went from 38 to 37'. It's a number that ticks down as you use the item. They both don't matter until that number reaches Zero, and then I lose the item's function. Looking at classic consumables, they usually take one stack in a player's inventory. The inventory doesn't go 'Potion' 'Potion' 'Potion',..., it goes Potion x12. Buying my potion stack back up from Potion x12 to potion x50 is the same as repearing my Armor from Durability 12 to Durability 50.

This is incorrect. Consumables are only used if the player is playing poorly. A consumable is used to "erase a mistake". Durability on weapons is used every single time you make an attack, take an attack, or even fall in battle (depending on how the system uses it). A player may never use a Potion if they play well (over leveled, so they never take damage and one-shot kill everything).

In most modern games, players will rarely ever use a Consumable anyway since Healing via MP is usually at least 6x more efficient in terms of money used to HP gained. Likewise, you also gain Consumables from nearly every single random chest in the game, whereas you don't receive random amounts of repairs to your weapons/armor through a dungeon or as the game goes on.

Most players don't even buy Consumables in games, because it's unnecessary to do so. But, you'll always have to pay for your durability repairs... or get a new weapon/armor when the old one breaks.

Their usage is far different as well as the circumstances of usage.
 

freakytapir

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This is incorrect. Consumables are only used if the player is playing poorly. A consumable is used to "erase a mistake".
And here we go.
I said Durability is 'Like' a Consumable, not that it is a consumable. An apple is like an orange, but not.

Second, am I making mistakes if I use an antidote to cure poison? Or eye drops to heal Blind? Or using a Paralyze heal in the Pokémon league? How is that me having made a mistake? How is using a potion with my rogue me erasing a mistake? Maybe I want the White mage to cast Holy for quadruple damage against the demon lord, so using the rogue to potion up is strategy, not erasing a mistake.
Maybe me spamming the expensive spells and healing the MP cost over with Ether is my strategy?

In most modern games, players will rarely ever use a Consumable anyway since Healing via MP is usually at least 6x more efficient in terms of money used to HP gained. Likewise, you also gain Consumables from nearly every single random chest in the game, whereas you don't receive random amounts of repairs to your weapons/armor through a dungeon or as the game goes on.

Then raise the cost of healing with spells.
And maybe chests do drop 'Repair kits', restoring small amount of durability in the field.

And usually Durability penalties are harshest for Death, so that's 'Used when you **** up' right there.

As always, I respect everyone on this forum, but I do love me some vigorous discussion.
 

Tai_MT

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And here we go.
I said Durability is 'Like' a Consumable, not that it is a consumable. An apple is like an orange, but not.

We're not talking apples and oranges though. You're talking apples and bacon. You have to stretch pretty hard to make them "similar" in any way... and the way in which you did that was, "Hey, numbers go down on them, so they're similar, right?". I mean, by that faulty logic, we could conclude Skillpoints are similar to durability.

Second, am I making mistakes if I use an antidote to cure poison? Or eye drops to heal Blind? Or using a Paralyze heal in the Pokémon league? How is that me having made a mistake?

Yes. You don't have equipment on that nullifies/reduces chances of getting these states. Or, you didn't kill the enemies quick enough to keep them from getting a turn. Suboptimal play. So, now you have to use a Consumable to "erase a mistake".

How is using a potion with my rogue me erasing a mistake?

Your rogue took enough damage to require it, that's how. Optimal play is that you take almost no damage, or virtually no damage.

Exceptions would be that the game is designed around you always taking damage no matter what you do (because it's impossible to one-hit kill things). But, you can always mitigate damage taken through skill usage, equipment, or even sometimes game mechanics.

But, most games aren't designed around the mechanic of you running gauntlets to run out of health steadily... so...

Maybe I want the White mage to cast Holy for quadruple damage against the demon lord, so using the rogue to potion up is strategy, not erasing a mistake.
Maybe me spamming the expensive spells and healing the MP cost over with Ether is my strategy?

...Are you arguing that choosing to play in a suboptimal way isn't a mistake? I mean... you can... but... weird hill to die on.

Then raise the cost of healing with spells.

I've covered a dozen topics on how and why this doesn't work. Rather than retype them... you can find my arguments there about them. Just do a search. It's very well-tread ground on these forums.

And maybe chests do drop 'Repair kits', restoring small amount of durability in the field.

Fallout 76 does this. It uh... doesn't really improve the gameplay or durability system that much. I don't think I've ever played another game that does this. I can't imagine it works any better. But, maybe someone will figure out how to make it work.

And usually Durability penalties are harshest for Death, so that's 'Used when you **** up' right there.

Only in MMO's... and they don't really punish individual mistakes so much as "your team screwed up, so you get punished too" which means your mistake is partying with people who make mistakes.

This doesn't really happen in singleplayer games because... well... Game Overs are a thing.

Durability still isn't "similar" to Consumables.
 

Maliki79

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Well my project currently has durability on all equipment save for accessories.

Firstly, equips in my game are relatively cheap to purchase in shops.

Next, equips are made to be customized with different elements, stat and state boosters. Those items are somewhat rare so one should be careful where they are placed.

Next, an item which doubles as "exp point currency" can be used to repair equips to a certain point. So broken items don't poof out of existence once broken. (They do become unequippable tho.)

Lastly for this post, weapons can be swapped in battles so them breaking just costs half a turn so long as you have a replacement handy.

The entire point of my game loop is to have items be useful in a multitude of ways. And providing situational ways to use equips is one of those. I also wanted to give players a safe way to experiment with different setups without feeling they missed out on something.
 

Tai_MT

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Well my project currently has durability on all equipment save for accessories.

Firstly, equips in my game are relatively cheap to purchase in shops.

So... what happens if all your equipment breaks out in the field and you're pretty far away from shops?

Next, equips are made to be customized with different elements, stat and state boosters. Those items are somewhat rare so one should be careful where they are placed.

Ah, so I should save all my customization items and never use them until the end of the game when I have the best equipment. Got it. Or, at least, save the Level 1 stuff until after the game starts dropping me the Level 2 customization items.

Next, an item which doubles as "exp point currency" can be used to repair equips to a certain point. So broken items don't poof out of existence once broken. (They do become unequippable tho.)

Sounds like these are more valuable to gain XP without fighting, which means I don't break my equipment as frequently. Which means I don't have to fight everything in a dungeon to gain XP or have multiple copies of equipment. Gain my levels, avoid combat, beat the boss to avoid durability loss. Replace equipment at the next town before it ever broke once.

Lastly for this post, weapons can be swapped in battles so them breaking just costs half a turn so long as you have a replacement handy.

I think I'd rather not have to deal with that. Half a turn is still quite valuable, especially in a boss fight. Might be more worth it to equip brand new gear at the beginning of the boss fight than spend turns swapping stuff out.

Hmmm... maybe carrying two sets of gear would be beneficial. The gear you wear for everything... and then a separate set of gear you never wear until boss fight time to avoid breakage.

Still, if I broke something mid combat, I think I'd just fight bare-handed or whatever to finish off the mooks rather than expend a turn navigating a menu to equip something else.

The entire point of my game loop is to have items be useful in a multitude of ways. And providing situational ways to use equips is one of those. I also wanted to give players a safe way to experiment with different setups without feeling they missed out on something.

Without seeing exactly how the gameplay works, I'm not sure your loop meets your success criteria. My own playstyle with the limitations you've imposed certainly wouldn't fall in line with what you're aiming for, at least. I'm sure others would have the same "But, I might need it later" issue I would. I'd also wager a small chunk would even seek to play "optimally". Which, in general, means utilizing the fewest amount of resources possible for the largest gains.

With some items being limited, I can guarantee I'd hoard them. With some items being more valuable for one purpose than another, I can guarantee I'd only ever use them for that one purpose. I mean, if I can get 500 XP from an item or just buy the sword again for 1000... I'll take the XP because I'm usually swimming in gold anyway, and XP can only be gained by losing money (each tick of durability I lose is money lost in replacing items). Levels are probably going to be more valuable to me than the equipment. Think of it like this: "You can use this item to get a Heart Container... or you can use it to repair one of your best pieces of equipment". I mean... who wouldn't choose the Heart Container?
 

Maliki79

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So... what happens if all your equipment breaks out in the field and you're pretty far away from shops?
You lament the level of screwed you brought upon yourself.
The exp items I mentioned are fairly plentiful, so outside of crazy disregard for your equips, they should be fine.
Of course, further testing would help pinpoint if that would be an issue.

Ah, so I should save all my customization items and never use them until the end of the game when I have the best equipment. Got it. Or, at least, save the Level 1 stuff until after the game starts dropping me the Level 2 customization items.
Elemental weaknesses and resistance plays a very big role in my game, so I would think players would think it a boon to place their items fairly early on and regularly. And of course, I don't mind if you choose to hoard items. I'll probably test that playstyle too one of these days.

Sounds like these are more valuable to gain XP without fighting, which means I don't break my equipment as frequently. Which means I don't have to fight everything in a dungeon to gain XP or have multiple copies of equipment. Gain my levels, avoid combat, beat the boss to avoid durability loss. Replace equipment at the next town before it ever broke once.
Maybe so. One easy way to find out... I do random encounters but with a 100% escape rate. (Which is probably another bit of contention you'll likely have with my game.)

I think I'd rather not have to deal with that. Half a turn is still quite valuable, especially in a boss fight. Might be more worth it to equip brand new gear at the beginning of the boss fight than spend turns swapping stuff out.
Hmmm... I wonder what would happen if a boss could damage equipment directly tho... Not that I would EVER make a boss do that....

Hmmm... maybe carrying two sets of gear would be beneficial. The gear you wear for everything... and then a separate set of gear you never wear until boss fight time to avoid breakage.
Yeah. Or a 3rd or even 6th set.

Still, if I broke something mid combat, I think I'd just fight bare-handed or whatever to finish off the mooks rather than expend a turn navigating a menu to equip something else.
With almost all skills tied to equipment, I'd say that would not be in your best interest while playing.

Without seeing exactly how the gameplay works, I'm not sure your loop meets your success criteria.
And at last, we come to the meat of this tale. You have not played my game yet.
With your fantastic analytical ability, I'd love for you to dissect my game when I'm ready for the next demo to be released. Then you can see if your critiques hold water.
It's my project, so of course, I'm a bit biased, but I'd like to think that even with the ability for equips to break, players will still have an awesome time playing thru my game.
Admittedly, I haven't worked on my game at any substantial level in months. I'd love for a good reason to hanker down and get into it again!
 

Tai_MT

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You lament the level of screwed you brought upon yourself.

So... it's a punishing game. Any reason for that? How do you signpost it?

The exp items I mentioned are fairly plentiful, so outside of crazy disregard for your equips, they should be fine.
Of course, further testing would help pinpoint if that would be an issue.

Nice! Lots of free levels!

Elemental weaknesses and resistance plays a very big role in my game, so I would think players would think it a boon to place their items fairly early on and regularly. And of course, I don't mind if you choose to hoard items. I'll probably test that playstyle too one of these days.

They tend to play a fairly large role in almost every RPG. I could even boast that about mine, it's so common. The question then becomes:

What elemental skills do you have? Far more efficient to use "Fire" as a skill than to put it on a sword that breaks.

Maybe so. One easy way to find out... I do random encounters but with a 100% escape rate. (Which is probably another bit of contention you'll likely have with my game.)

I don't have a contention with your game. I'm providing critique based upon what you've supplied as information about your game. That's a common theme on these forums. Much of the critique I've received on my own game and systems has lead me towards refining and removing systems of my own.

You don't get better at game design by always thinking you're right. You get better by realizing you might have some issues on your hands and you need to plan for those issues (something that has been pointed out to me on more than one occasion and where I've had to drastically redesign after a discussion as a result).

"Rule of Cool" is a bad way to do game design. Devs should always design like this:
*I want X system to accomplish Y thing.
*Does X system accomplish Y? Any downsides?
*If X system doesn't work as intended, is there a way to get it to work as intended?

Rinse and repeat for every system you implement. If it has no purpose other than, "I want it in the game", then it is purposeless. It is just "Rule of Cool" at that point.

The only "contention" I ever have with a game is when it doesn't appear to be well-thought out enough and I can easily exploit and break the game to basically destroy its intended purpose. I'm just not really a fan of shoddily built things. It's a pet peeve of mine when people don't think beyond Step 1 or Step 2 of something in their game. Ideally, you should be thinking about Step 10 and all the ramifications that entails.

Hmmm... I wonder what would happen if a boss could damage equipment directly tho... Not that I would EVER make a boss do that....

My question is: "Would that boss even be a threat if I'm so overleveled that I can effectively destroy it in a few hits?". Because... with the way your XP Item thing sounds... Yeah, I definitely could and would and should. Much better than interacting with a mechanic that is basically bound to be excessively annoying.

Hold up, let me swap out 4 pieces of gear this turn and another 3 the next turn because of this annoying mechanic and boss. I definitely play RPG's to spend a lot of time doing tedious crap like navigating menus and trying to keep track of the durability of like 5 sets of the same armor.

One of your biggest hurdles is going to be "Menu Fatigue". Something that ensured I basically cut down my skill lists to 6-9 skills and no more (to avoid scrolling). Something that ensured I basically cut down Consumable Lists to around 20 items. The less time my players spend in menus, the better off the experience will be. Especially since the action doesn't stop for 10-20 seconds at a time to scroll a list of equipment and pick a new one after the old one broke.

I mean, FFX had a thing sort of like this where "each character was useful against a specific enemy, so you need to swap them out in battle" and I ended up just ignoring it. Oh, I need piercing? Let me put Piercing on Tidus's weapon... now I don't need it. Oh, that monster flies? Yeah, Lulu can just zap it with magic so I don't need to kick a stupid ball at it. The list went on and on. I basically just ensured I had to swap characters as little as possible (to the point I never needed to swap them!).

I'd basically be looking for ways to do the same in your game. Keep from swapping out equipment because of how tedious that would get and how often it would drag the flow of the game down to zero.

Yeah. Or a 3rd or even 6th set.

Jeeze, if I need to manage more than two... Yeah, that's not going to feel good for me as a player. I'm perfectly happy managing one set of armor. Put it on, forget about it. Equip a single weapon, forget about it. Navigate the menu again when I get an upgrade.

Breath of the Wild was a SUPER FUN experience in reinforcing this opinion of mine... Having to open my menu constantly to swap out weapons and pick things to drop. Nothing quite like stopping all of combat to navigate a menu! SO MUCH FUN!

Probably the reason I spent so much time just avoiding combat in Breath of the Wild... It got to be so freakin' tedious.

With almost all skills tied to equipment, I'd say that would not be in your best interest while playing.

And if durability doesn't go down from skill usage... Man, let me save my swords and staves and just cast Firajajagigaburnboom every single turn. Cuts down on the amount of Durability I got to deal with.

And at last, we come to the meat of this tale. You have not played my game yet.
With your fantastic analytical ability, I'd love for you to dissect my game when I'm ready for the next demo to be released. Then you can see if your critiques hold water.

Sure, shoot me a PM when you're ready, I'll take a look. I'll see how I can break it for you.

But, alas, if you describe your system from your game and give incomplete information... you get incomplete answers. You need to expect that going in.

It isn't really useful to say, "You can't critique it because you haven't played it yet!". This is a weird sort of gatekeeping that is intended to shut down criticism because it can't be handled.

If you have a counter to the things I've said I'd do, then tell me about them. I'll see if there's a way around them too.

But, as of current... it sounds like you treat your player as "the enemy" rather than looking to give them fun.

Is swapping equipment around because it breaks fun? Why? What makes it fun?

I mean, my equipment system basically does the same thing as yours, without a durability system. My players are required to swap out their equipment accordingly for anywhere they go. Sometimes Plate Mail is better than Leather Armor. Sometimes, vice versa. But, I've gone out of my way to minimize the amount of time players need to "swap" anything out. Equip all your stuff at the beginning of the dungeon and then forget about it. Never need to swap weapons unless you want to. It's a system that exists because it ties into the primary loop/theme of the game. Namely: "Choices Matter". Likewise, "Preparation is half of every battle". Lots of my systems tie into these two themes. If a system doesn't, it is removed. The player is taught these two lessons over and over and over again and rewarded by being OP if they learn them properly. And what's the point of making my players OP? It gives me more fun gimmicks to toy with them. It means I don't have to rely on stats to make combat harder. It means I can play dirty tricks and teach my players how to do those dirty tricks too. It means I can tinker with "skill ceiling".

It's my project, so of course, I'm a bit biased, but I'd like to think that even with the ability for equips to break, players will still have an awesome time playing thru my game.

We all think that. There's no crime in thinking that. But, there's also no substitute for playtesting. For figuring out how to break your game. Figuring out how you can get soft-locked playing it. Can you imagine if a player got 40 hours deep into your game and broke all their equipment to the point that they couldn't get back into town to get more? They just lost a 40 hour file at that point. What if they managed it 3 hours in? 20 minutes in?

A good dev can make a game fun. An amazing dev ensures the player can't wreck their own fun.

Admittedly, I haven't worked on my game at any substantial level in months. I'd love for a good reason to hanker down and get into it again!

Pick a reason. It could be just as simple as working on one thing every single day to ensure progress is made. If you need an excuse to work on your game, you probably won't ever finish it. If you need motivation, you can only find that within yourself.

I haven't tinkered or dabbled in my game that much in over a year (COVID and the stress related to it), but I was very close to releasing an actual Demo. I work on it now and again, trying to do things every week if I can.

But, I want to get a demo out there so that people can tell me my game is garbage and I can improve the final product. Playtesting among friends and family is no longer producing valuable information I can use. So, getting to a Demo Stage will help me become better as a dev.

Plus, there's one person on these forums who has routinely told me all the flaws in every single one of my systems and helped me get better by throwing walls of text back at me and making me consider my own points of view. If nothing else, I want to toss the demo their way and see if what they thought my game was matches up to what it is. I do so enjoy my friendly rivalry with them. Maybe... just a little... I want to figure out how to impress them. And maybe... just a little... give them some material that they can launch their own ideas off of. That makes me happy.
 

Tiamat-86

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sounds like you only playtesting with 1 mindset (the perfectionist) which seems to actually be the focal point of most of @Tai_MT critiques.
your completely ignoring "the completionist", "the grinder" the speedrunner mindsets.
the perfectionist mindset only exists for the game's maker and people doing a walkthrough guide or replay run of the game.
the completionist/speedrunner mindsets is just always a bad matchup for durability mechanics.
that means the only people that would even try to finish 1 whole playthrough are those with the grinder mindset. but the grinders are more often then not also conservative pack rats which @Tai_MT described with hording weapon augments until get new tier of augment. so even that player base is going to have issues.
 
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I'm just so close to replacing LUK with a different stat, maybe DEX but we'll see.
Slapped together a title screen and working on some dungeon clutter + portraits for Dubhghaill and Einar. Usual CW for minor body horror wrt Einar
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>studying for months for an exam
>does exam
>waits 3 months for the results to come out
>me trying to login, incorrect password
>I get recovery password
>me trying to login, incorrect password

What the heck. As a son of a Karen, I'm going to file a few complaints.

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