Opinion: Your game is already bad if you use all default graphics.

[The Stranger]

@HumanNinjaToo I agree with you. I've seen a lot of terrible screenshots both here and on Steam. Not just because the mapping isn't very good, sometimes the maps look great, but because the screenshots themselves don't seem to showcase anything other than fields, towns, random NPC dialogue, and even menus.

 

[JosephSeraph]

The exceptions come once in a full moon,

Full custom RPG Maker games that have a high level of technical and artistic competence are as rare as good RTP games, though. Which is, quite rare, but not unbelievably so.

 

[Kupotepo]

I like to be helpful, but I am like to be direct. People here like friendly tapping to realization. I like to shake you to the realization.
Are you making a game about an RPG maker?
Narrative and plots of the game story help move the story of the game forward and feeling in the game.
If you make a game about an RPG maker, I hope your game feels like an RPG maker.
Arts doesn't help make your game move forward. The story is. I meant it help you to make your game look special if the execution of mechanics and cutscene is really bad. The arts will not save your game. Do not thank me. Thanks, people above. That is what they teach me.

Proof the survey I created wronged. Nah, I am just playing with you. I agree with you that Stream allows the half bake job RPG games.

There are free resources you can get, just give the credit for the artists.

Many RPG games are specialized in specific areas such as flash arts, mechanics, and story intrigue. Watch Let's play streaming and you will fill better about your game. You see that every game has room for improvement. It is super super rare to find a perfect RPG game that get 10/10.

 

[Finnuval]

Short answer : no.

The problem is that a lot of games that are being made with rpgmaker are lazy and badly done... Not because of the RTP but because of the accessibility of the engine, meaning that pretty much anyone and everyone and their mom can make a 'game'.

These games tend to use only RTP and default settings and thus it drags the default down by proxy. However this does not mean that the RTP is bad nor that a game using the RTP is bad at all - it only means that a game will fight more of an uphill battle if it uses RTP.

Still a good game is a good game and graphics are only a very very small part in that.

 

[Kupotepo]

@Finnuval, lol do not tell the truth. Let's people believe that RPG maker is a magic maker. Simply look into the RPG maker and voilà whatever you are desired come true. However, I agree with @Morpheus which it is true that it is going to the fiery competition any RTP games will face. But again, you have put something like some free resources into the RPG maker to make an interesting game that just needs a little energy to do.

 

[lianderson]

Whoa, this thread blew up.

Hmmmmmm....

The less you concern yourself with sales or the opinions of shallow strangers, the more entertaining your gam mak will be.

 

[standardplayer]

Ok, I've seen some people say that when they see good graphics, they assume it's a bad game.
hahahahah WHAT????? How mad did the title of this thread make you?? How many nerves did it hit??? Do you like, know Harold in real life?

Seriously though, I don't actually believe you think that. You're just trying to say the opposite of what OP said, because ya don't like what OP said. Change my mind.

And for all the folks going on about story and gameplay, you do understand that no one owes you a purchase or a download, right? You can have the best tasting can of beans on earth, but if you can't somehow find a way to catch a customer's attention more than the brands around you, they'll never know.

You don't have to like the fact that entire industries and ares of education exist around how to stand out next to products that are similar to yours.

Quit hating on the importance of graphics. It's called video games. You aren't deep for saying graphics aren't important, and being able to point out one title that supports your theory makes your theory about one piece of evidence stronger. I'll get you a cookie.

Even crap-graphic games like Undertale are consistent and unique. Graphics matter to people, like, I don't know if you know this but humans are ridiculously visual creatures. To the point where we have common words and names for people and things that are visually displeasing.

Major gaming sins have been committed wearing the RTP, and some of us don't want to lose potential audience members because of something like that. You don't have to confront reality, but you need to know that it IS a place where reminding people that aren't devs of RPG Maker usually means reminding them of low quality games.

Unfortunately if they've never seen RPG Maker at all, before, RTP looks worse than most SNES games. Some of us feel like you lose either way.

But yeah to circle back around, good graphics don't point to bad design!!! You're just saying that bc you probably don't have good graphics

 

[JosephSeraph]

RTP looks worse than most SNES games

Eh, yikes, no it doesn't and now you're just offending the very competent teams of artists that Kadokawa / Enterbrain / ASCII have hired for the history of RPG Maker.

Like, dude, I see some very valid points you're trying to make. When someone says that graphics don't matter? To me, it's bullcrap. Graphics do have some weight. I say that as an artist myself, but the weight of course varies person to person. That being said...

Ok, I've seen some people say that when they see good graphics, they assume it's a bad game.
hahahahah WHAT????? How mad did the title of this thread make you?? How many nerves did it hit??? Do you like, know Harold in real life?

You're reaching out. I'm an artist, I make everything fully custom and have been doing so for over a decade and even I feel this way. Very often I will see a game that's fully custom and be like "...oh. They're a visual artist and just use games as a fun outlet to develop that." So I don't expect a lot out of these games. Of course, sometimes it's easy to notice when it's that vs. when it's someone has lovingly crafted a full game and put equal attention to graphics, gameplay and story. (Example: Wilfred the Hero, which despite being an audiovisual feast is very creative with it's gameplay mechanics and narrative, despite being from what, 2004?)

So I don't know, you're really acting bitter, too.

There's nuance to stuff. And there's different strokes to different folks.
I fully respect someone's decision to not play a game based on it being RTP. I just think it's short-sighted to assume that everybody else does the same. It's also unintelligent to think that a game will get an infinite pile of downloads just because it has custom graphics.

IDK, chile

 

[standardplayer]

So I don't know, you're really acting bitter, too.

I promise you I'm not bitter lol, I'm not sure how it's coming off that way. I think you just don't like what I said.

It's also unintelligent to think that a game will get an infinite pile of downloads just because it has custom graphics

I didn't say this.

EDIT: Yeah I guess saying they were worse wasn't the right way to put it. They aren't bad, in any way, but they're soooo boring. I mean they have to be as neutral as possible, right? So you can make a reasonable amount of games with them. But they're just so unoriginal. Again, I get why they are, but surely you get why that means that even if they've never been seen by someone before, they aren't going to do your game any favors outside of existing.

As far as insulting people, come on buddy, if you have to defend people who you don't even know are insulted, just say you're insulted. Keep it real, like I did, like some others did and like OP did.

 

[JosephSeraph]

I didn't say this.

Hyperbole.

 

[standardplayer]

@JosephSeraph
The problem with that is that I never suggested getting custom graphics will give you more downloads, so it isn't even really hyperbole.

In fact, all I'm saying in that regard, and I think all OP is saying in that regard, is that not having custom graphics can hurt your chances to get your game out there.

And it's annoying because a lot of us flat out have no artistic skills, and forming/joining teams is a long process that is usually lined with failures. Combine that with the fact that I see a LOT of people on here talking about social anxieties of working with groups.
I don't have that, and I really can't imagine having another thing making the process more difficult. So that's tough for people if they don't have graphical skills, the means to acquire unique ones or an artist on their project.

Anyway, this thread got a lot of hate real quick, if anyone wants to talk about a pile of anything.
Some kept it to opinions, and didn't act all hurt in the feelings about it. I feel like those were the ones that kept it real, regardless of what your opinion was. A lot of you just made it about you and did a weird form of rpgmakerweb.com virtue-signalling. That's not being real, that's being childish.

PS: Also to be clear, I'm working with an AWESOME artist, and not being satisfied with graphics for my projects was always something that kept me feeling like my projects were what I wanted them to be. Just so that it's clear that I've been on both the have and not-have side of this situation.

 

[fluffymonster]

And for all the folks going on about story and gameplay, you do understand that no one owes you a purchase or a download, right? You can have the best tasting can of beans on earth, but if you can't somehow find a way to catch a customer's attention more than the brands around you, they'll never know.

It's nothing to do with "owing" someone a purchase or not. If you don't have decent graphics, you need to make up for it with gameplay or story. And if it's interesting enough, it will. It's just a fact. Look at Undertale, Stardew Valley, Minecraft, and so on.

Even crap-graphic games like Undertale are consistent and unique.

The game would still be overlooked if it were not for the story/gameplay. It's just a fact. Plenty of games are overlooked 'cause they don't have anything to offer. If you don't have the graphics to pull interest, you need gameplay or story. Heck, even with the graphics, people still won't like it if your story or gameplay is lacking too much.

 

[TheoAllen]

On graphics vs content, I always stay on the golden rule from my lecturer a few years back.

Make the graphics (and music) as good as possible so their focus is on the gameplay (giving feedback or simply the enjoyment). If their focus is still commenting on the graphics, then it isn't good enough. It doesn't need to be pretty, but just right with whatever gameplay you want to bring.

You make good graphics so that they forget about it.

 

[Restart]

there's a lot of super phoned-in rtp graphics

This is one of the worse examples:

 

[standardplayer]

@fluffymonster The problem with that is that no one will know unless they actually get your game. So we can't say story or gameplay is the reason someone would try your game. They don't know them until they try them.

Story can be summarized kind of , but that has more to do with your ability to write a good summary of it that sounds tantalizing. It's much harder than most people think, to make an entire story sound good in a short set of words. In this same way, you could write a blurb that is way better than the story itself. Again, in this case, if that's what pulls them in, it wasn't really the story that pulled them in. It was how well written the blurb is. The story could still be great or awful.

And gameplay can be somewhat described, but gameplay needs to played in the game, again not something you can say is the reason someone noticed your game. It's true that people can watch videos, but before they watch your videos (because the whole world has a video for you to watch) you have to pull them in and give them a reason to be asking "Oh, what's this like?"

I really think gameplay and story can't really be the reason someone tries your game, it's the reasons someone likes your game, after trying it

Also, it's weird that you tried to list games as a counterpoint to my point, and one of the games you listed is in the quote of mine you provided. Just saying.

 

[Willibab]

I don't really buy that many games, making my own is more fun

I'm also not doing this for money or popularity so that doesn't really matter to me, however...

I do personally despise the RTP and would be a hard sell for me, but i can only speak for myself. I do like the XP style tho tbh.


I'm using Time Fantasy atm but i totally would make all assets myself if i was more artistic (I am trying to learn but i currently suck at it)

 

[fluffymonster]

The problem with that is that no one will know unless they actually get your game. So we can't say story or gameplay is the reason someone would try your game. They don't know them until they try them.

Screenshots can be used to demonstrate some of your games features. That's their whole point, really.

Story can be summarized kind of

Depending on what you're doing with the story, some of it can be displayed in cutscenes or people let's playing/streaming your game. This is detrimental if your story is the only thing interesting (non-interesting gameplay, for instance) and it wouldn't be a fun replay (multiple endings, collectable monsters, etc. could be examples of what would make it interesting). There needs to be a pull and graphics aren't the only thing that can pull people in. It's about how you package your work and if you have something nice to back it up (i.e. gameplay, story, or graphics). You're being silly if you think story truly doesn't matter, though. That's one of the major pulls of RPGs like the ones easily made with RPG Maker.

And gameplay can be somewhat described, but gameplay needs to played in the game, again not something you can say is the reason someone noticed your game.

Gameplay is super easy to describe. Most games (on steam, at least) have a list of features in the game. If you have anything notable, you can list it there. Your pictures and videos can also help to demonstrate gameplay features you believe people would find interesting.

before they watch your videos (because the whole world has a video for you to watch) you have to pull them in and give them a reason to be asking "Oh, what's this like?"

Not necessarily before. Sometimes after, too. You're putting people in a very small box.

Also, it's weird that you tried to list games as a counterpoint to my point, when the point you're countering is the point you're making, and one of the games you listed is in the quote of mine you provided. Just saying.

Here's a reminder of what I said:
If you don't have decent graphics, you need to make up for it with gameplay or story. And if it's interesting enough, it will. It's just a fact. Look at Undertale, Stardew Valley, Minecraft, and so on.

This was context to what I was saying. "You need to make up for it with gameplay or story" ... and then I gave a list of games that did so. You speak of us being bitter and salty, but it really feels like you're the one being triggered by this.

 

[standardplayer]

@fluffymonster don't talk to me about salt, you're making it about you.

Whether you like it or not, other games exist. You have to stand out among them. Everyone isn't gonna read your lists. They're not all gonna watch your videos. Your best bet is screenshots, which are still, and do a better job of showcasing graphics than anything else.

It feels weird to have to say this a second time, but I'm not salty. I promise you I'm very happy with how my RM project is going, this is most excited I've ever been.

It's also hard not to defend OP, at least for me. As long as someone hasn't done something horrible, I naturally tend to try to see things from their point of view. And I've also never been one to mob up, OP said like one or two things before everyone started unloading on them. It doesn't influence my opinion, but it does feel crappy to watch people pile their insecurities onto another just for being real.

Don't like.....do that thing where you try to suggest someone is mad when nothing they've done suggests they're mad. It's pathetic. I'm somewhat saddened because I think I see a bit more than what people are actually saying, being said here. I see the same frustration/worry that I think OP originally posted with.

And make no mistake, outside of the slight bit of sadness for this situation, I am actually highly, highly amused


EDIT one last thing, I just reread what you said again and had forgotten to mention something. I never said story wasn't important or gameplay. I never said that, like at all. Seriously, stop making stuff upppppp it's not the same as having a point

 

[fluffymonster]

@standardplayer You twisting my words is enough to justify me "unloading" on you. I'm only pointing out reality over here. Graphics aren't the only thing important. You're doing yourself a disservice by ignoring gameplay and story as important aspects to popularity and success.

I don't think you're triggered over how your game is going, but the mere suggestion that someone could find success without good graphics. Story and gameplay is a lot more important than you'd think, which can be sad if you're not the best storywriter or can't figure out fun gameplay.

As long as someone hasn't done something horrible, I naturally tend to try to see things from their point of view.

I'm not horrible for having a different opinion from you.

EDIT one last thing, I just reread what you said again and had forgotten to mention something. I never said story wasn't important or gameplay. I never said that, like at all. Seriously, stop making stuff upppppp it's not the same as having a point

EDIT: What's the point in arguing with me, then? My main point was story and gameplay is important and can change reception of the game if they're good enough. How am I making anything up by assuming disagreeing with what I said is disagreeing with the importance of story and gameplay?

 

[standardplayer]

Oh wow........
a. I wasn't talking about you unloading on me. And you're saying I'm twisting your words!!!!!!
b. I'm not saying you're horrible, are you even reading the same words I'm writing? Remember at the beginning of my last post when I said you're making this about you?????
You literally just did that again!!!

Lol you can't trigger me, I literally don't care about you in any way, shape or form. And furthermore, I'm not angry at you in any way. But seriously, neither of the two things you just referenced are even remotely what I said. And neither of them were really for you. Everything isn't about you, especially when no one said it was XD

Finally, you keep not hearing me. I think gameplay and graphics and every part of a game is important to success. But they DON'T MATTER IF NO ONE PLAYS YOUR GAME. You're idealizing people if you think they're watching LP's of many games before buying them, as part of the buying process. They'll do it for some, if they do it at all. But you don't watch LP's of games you might buy unless you've noticed them in some way lol otherwise you wouldn't be considering it at all!