Ougi / Ultimate Skill

[TheoAllen]

I never find a sweet spot of making an ultimate skill in every game concept I made. Maybe, because the way I design, it does not require any ultimate skill. I once tried to put one, but it feels forced, either because enemy died too fast, or it take long / costly to cast. And it also render a boss battle a joke if my character managed to cast one. Even if it wasn't a joke, the battle usually last quite long and tend to get boring without your character casting a costly ultimate skill. Which mean you're indirectly being forced to use ultimate skill to speed up the battle anyway

So few questions for all of you:

• Do you have / use / make ultimate skill in your game?
• If yes (or no), why?
• For those who use, how do you balance the damage dealt? Is it 300% scaled from normal attack? or 500%? or another number? Or it does not dealing any damage?
• How do you put the restriction? (such as cooldown, turns before you can use it, limitation on how many u can cast per battle / another measure)
• How is it compared to another damaging skill?
• How it fits in your mechanic you're working? Do you make a separate limit break gauge different from MP? Or it use MP anyway?

 

[EpicFILE]

I have some kind of ultimate skillset in my game, called "Advanced".
To activate it, the player need to input some button sequence.
The more powerful, the more challenging it is.

The Advanced command itself can't be accessed normally.
Only when an actor successfully dodged an attack, he can gain the access to advanced skills.

Damage-wise, it's comparable to powerful magic attacks.
Its only advantage is, it cost no MP or TP.

Other than that, I think ultimate skills are good for aesthetic and characterization.
(I haven't tried to make Advanced skills to look like personalized ultimate skills, though) xD

 

[S.Court]

• Do you have / use / make ultimate skill in your game?

Each character has access to a special skillset, which is not necessarily better than other skills, they're just different skills which open a different way to use a character, or act as a complement for character's actual role

• If yes (or no), why?

In my project, I make the character can invest into 6 different stats: HP, MP, Attack, Magic, Agility and Vitality (renamed LUK with extra effects) I find a bit hard to make a character invest into Vitality (despite the extra effects, which are still good) and at same time I wanted to reflect certain character's abilities in a different way, so I added this skillset and made Vitality is related to its use, so I kill two birds with one stone, Yay!

• For those who use, how do you balance the damage dealt? Is it 300% scaled from normal attack? or 500%? or another number? Or it does not dealing any damage?

The access to this skillset is not permanent, you need to invest in Vitality to make it last longer, but that might means to sacrifice another stats. Besides that, each character has its way to balance it, I'll put a couple of examples

-One of my characters is a shaman, I made this skillset is more focused to do powerful magical damage summoning spirits, at expenses of its own HP, and considering is a frail character by himself, it becomes in a high risk, high reward strategy.

-Other character is a knight, this extra skillset lets it add battle stances which increases one (or multiple) stat(s), changes the Attack command to another which has an extra effect (adding a state, increasing the number of hits or similar things) and adds an effect (for example, Durandal Stance increases his attack, makes the attack command can disable physical attacks and makes he can counter each physical attack he receives. In this case, this ultimate skills actually works as a complement of his builds, so he can build a lot of Vitality to make it lasts a good amount of time to use him at his best potential.

• How do you put the restriction? (such as cooldown, turns before you can use it, limitation on how many u can cast per battle / another measure)

That depends, some of them costs items, some costs HP, or some of them still costs MP. Each character has a different limitation, depending if they're too powerful or if it works more as an extra way to use this character.

• How it fits in your mechanic you're working? Do you make a separate limit break gauge different from MP? Or it use MP anyway?

The character needs to have the TP bar at maximum to being able to use it. After that, the TP bar starts to deplet each turn (this can be mitigated with Vitality) and when it ends in 0, the access to this skillset is over

 

[bgillisp]

In my game, every character has a class and a magic set, and each has an ultimate skill but one. Here's a few off the top of my head in the spoiler box.

Spoiler: Some Ultimate Skills

Fire: Nova, AOE Fire spell that does high damage. Costs a ton of mana to cast though, so you won't be able to spam it often.
Life: Divine Restoration. Restores all HP to the entire party. Has a cooldown so you can't spam it every turn though.
Thief: Concealment. Is invoked at the start of every fight that the Thief is in the party, and hides the party so they get the jump on the enemy. +100% EVA +100% MEVA for the first turn of battle. (This one is admittedly a tad OP, but you have to solve a hard puzzle in the last dungeon of the game to get it, so I feel it is justified)
Reporter: Krotrium Sword. Hits the enemy with a high damage attack that cannot be resisted or dodged.
Chemist: Cleanse All. Removes all Status ailments from the entire party. This one is given to the party as part of the plot, so it is the weakest of them all.

As for balance, I balanced my game on the assumption you will not find any of them. That makes then indeed optional rewards then, as they are not required to proceed. Sure, that means you'll break the game with some of them, and if you get all of them the game gets a tad easy, but I consider that your reward for finding all 17 of them (7 magics of the 8 have one, and all 10 classes have one).

As for how to prevent the entire game from getting too easy with them, you can't find most of them until you get access to the boat, which happens at the final dungeon of the game. So the only part of the plot you can break is the last dungeon, and again I see that as your reward for going out of your way to get all 17 of them.

 

[Rinobi]

I don't really create "ultimate" skills, instead I base my skill design on a TP-like power scale. The trade-off is obvious to the player and easier to balance. Low power skills can be used quickly and more often, while high power skills require more time to build up after each use. Instead of applying bonus damage, the damage potential is predetermined by the skill's costs on a scale of 0% to 100%. This percentage is linked to an average HP scale to create a base damage potential.

Spoiler: Eric Example

Average MHP - 500
1 TP = 4.5 HP

Attack - Deals 50 damage; user gains 5 TP. 0 TP. 0 CD.
Strong Attack - Deals 95 damage. 10 TP. 1 CD.
Cleave - Deals 63 damage to all enemies. 10 TP. 1 CD.
Bersker's Roar - For 5 turns, increase ATK of party. 25 TP. 3 CD.
Berserker's Dance - 92 damage to 3 random enemies. 50 TP. 5 CD.
Giant's Rampage - Deals 333 damage to all enemies. 100 TP. 10 CD.

This is just a simplified example of course. In the above example, basic attacks average at 10% HP damage while "ultimate" attacks average 100% HP damage. If the skill hits random enemies, the damage is divided, if it hits everyone at once, the damage is reduced by 33%. The damage scale you use will depend on enemy design and game mechanics.

As for restrictions, cooldowns work pretty well in combination with TP if you have items, equipment, or mechanics which allow players to build TP more quickly. In the above example, skills have a cooldown of 1/10th the TP cost. The comparisons between the skills are obvious and there's no need for additional limitations.

I do use MP-like resources, but the approach is quite different from the above.

 

[Tai_MT]

I never find a sweet spot of making an ultimate skill in every game concept I made. Maybe, because the way I design, it does not require any ultimate skill. I once tried to put one, but it feels forced, either because enemy died too fast, or it take long / costly to cast. And it also render a boss battle a joke if my character managed to cast one. Even if it wasn't a joke, the battle usually last quite long and tend to get boring without your character casting a costly ultimate skill. Which mean you're indirectly being forced to use ultimate skill to speed up the battle anyway

So few questions for all of you:

• Do you have / use / make ultimate skill in your game?

Yeah. Pretty much everyone has one. They don't all do damage.

• If yes (or no), why?

If I didn't have them, pretty much nobody in my game would have a use for TP. While I have a single character who uses TP pretty exclusively, it felt silly to be designing TP based equipment for a single user. So, I gave every character their own "Ultimate Skill" that uses TP.

• For those who use, how do you balance the damage dealt? Is it 300% scaled from normal attack? or 500%? or another number? Or it does not dealing any damage?

I "scale" the damage according to how difficult I feel it is to obtain that TP. Or, based on other factors. I've never really felt that your "Ultimate Skill" needs to be balanced. I've always felt that it's more of a "trump card". Sort of an emergency button. Mash it when you're in trouble or something. Not every "Trump Card" will work on every boss fight. They have chances to miss, they have chances to hit enemies that are immune to them, and other things.

I'll list them and walk through the balancing. Variables for different versions of the skill appear in (these).

Last Stand - Player Max HP minus Player Current HP multiplied by (1.5, 2, 2.5, or 3) and hits (1 chosen target, 2 random targets, 3 random targets, or four random targets). Costs (70 or 80) TP to cast. Higher multipliers hit less targets. Lower multipliers hit more targets.

Elemental Chaos - Player Magic Stat plus flat bonus of (+110, +120, +130, or +140) minus Enemy Magic Defense stat. Inflicts Level (1, 2, 3, or 4) States on Enemies at (75% or 80%) Rates. Costs 100 TP to cast. For reference, the Flat Bonus of every other spell at max level is roughly 70, 80, 90, or 100. States being inflicted on basic spells is 70-80%. Higher chances and higher levels on less damaging skills. You get the idea.

Death Blade, Life Strike, Thorn Spear - This is a bit too complicated to really go into. These aren't meant as "ultimate blows", but mere "game changers" in combat. As such, there a ton of variables, including which weapons they can be used with, whether they use Attack, Magic, or Both for stats in the damage formula, how big the Flat Bonuses are with 55 being the lowest and 100 being the highest, whether the attack itself is a physical blow or a magical one, and finally, the "bonus effect" in combat which can be a combination of three separate states to inflict on an enemy. TP to cast never gets above 55. In any case, they're all listed together because you obtain one of the three via a storyline event.

Siege Breaker - Player Defense minus Enemy Attack multiplied by (4.5, 5, 5.5, or 6) and hits (single chosen target, single random target, two random targets, or three random targets). Cost is (85, 90, 95, or 100) TP. Higher multipliers hit single chosen targets or less targets in general. Lower multipliers hit more targets. Single target hits cost less TP than multiple targets.

Backstab - Player Luck plus Flat Bonus of (+110, +137, +191, or +352) minus Enemy Agility. Hits (one random target, two random targets, three random targets, or four random targets). Costs 100 TP. As above, more damage is dealt to a single target while less damage is dealt to multiple targets. Obviously, this could be used to kill a boss, if you so desired. However, since hitting the target you want with it is "random", you may not get what you want when you use it. Very situational.

Cleave - Player Attack plus Flat Bonus of (+110, +120, +130, or +140) minus Enemy Defense. Requires Battle Axe to use, which has a default hit rate of 70%. Skill has a (7, 8, 9, or 10% chance to inflict Death instantly). Skill always costs 100 TP even at Tier 1. Even if you don't get lucky and kill your chosen target instantly, you're still dealing a lot of damage. Lower Flat Bonus gives you a higher chance to inflict Death instantly. Higher Flat Bonus is less chance to inflict Death Instantly. Though, admittedly, there's probably not a lot of difference practically between a 7% chance to inflict Death instantly or a 10% chance to do so.

Breath of Life - Revives (single ally or whole party) from death, Resist Death for (0 turns, 3 turns, 4 turns, or 5 turns), Pharmacology up (0%, 25%, 50%, or 75%) for 3 turns. 100 TP cost for all versions of the skill, even the Tier 1 versions. Only a single version gives a "whole party revive" and it doesn't come with "Pharmacology Up", though it grants a 5 Turn Death Resist. On the other end of the spectrum, you can revive a single ally in combat with 75% Pharmacology Up and no "Resist Death". Healing in combat, including reviving allies, is typically done through items. With no dedicated healers and being able to heal requiring someone spend a turn to pop a potion, this can save lives. Especially when no matter what version of it you get, it's infinitely better than "Use A State Curing Item" on the person.

Full Bloom - Player Magic plus Player Current MP plus Flat Bonus of (+70, +80, +90, or +100) minus Enemy Magic Defense. Has a (40%, 45%, 50%, 55%) chance to inflict "Tangled". Tangled is a "temporary" version of my Paralyze skill which lasts 1-3 turns, keeps you immobile and cannot be cured. You also take 2x as much damage from physical hits while "Tangled". Skill hits all enemies. All Tier 4 versions of this Skill cost 100 TP to cast. Higher rates of inflicting "Tangled" on an enemy result in lower damage and vice versa. Skill is "Nature" Element, so some enemies could be immune to it.

Necrotic Potential - Enemy MP minus Enemy Magic Defense multiplied by (4.5, 5, 5.5, or 6). Skill hits (single chosen target, two random targets, three random targets, or four random targets). This skill uses the enemy's MP against them and does a lot of damage. However, at Tier 4, it always costs 100 TP to cast. The downside to said skill is that it's pretty worthless against anything with more Magic Defense than MP. However, it's mostly a "utility" type skill that basically destroys "Mage" type enemies.

• How do you put the restriction? (such as cooldown, turns before you can use it, limitation on how many u can cast per battle / another measure)

The restriction on many of these skills is the high TP cost to cast them. That being said, it's also not particularly easy to gain enough TP to use these skills. It is possible to hold onto TP with certain equipment, but that equipment is few and far between while also being "substandard". You could equip an Accessory that would grant "Preserve TP" so you could stockpile it for a boss, but there are other accessories that might be a lot better. There are pieces of armor and weapons that are the same way, but they may be weaker than what you might find later, even in stores. Even more rare are items that "double" or "triple" TP gain. But, they have the same drawback as the other accessories.

• How is it compared to another damaging skill?

As mentioned before, they generally get a large boost to power. But, generally, it's only 40 extra points of damage when compared to most standard skills. In many situations, the skills do something much better than just straight damage, so they're a little more situational.

• How it fits in your mechanic you're working? Do you make a separate limit break gauge different from MP? Or it use MP anyway?

Nah, I use the standard TP gauge. Saves a lot of time and effort. It fits in with a lot of the other skills in that they're the main draw of combat. Using things situationally. Finding ways to break my game. Or break combat. Realizing that maybe I thought of that and blocked you from doing it this time.

I use MP for standard skills. TP is for the "ultimate skills". The resource makes it more difficult to spam these skills. Much more controllable.

 

[Milennin]

I never implemented it in my games, but I've toyed with the idea. The idea was basically that every character gets 2 ultimate skills, but they can use only one per battle, once per battle. Even though they're "ultimates", they were mostly designed as support skills, rather than dealing straight up a bunch of big damage. They'd basically help set up more extreme strategies, such as as a skill that drains the user of all MP, but restores the MP of all other allies, or have effects that last until the end of a fight, like a skill cast on an ally, that would heal that ally and the user whenever that ally uses a skill (in a game where skills are generally frequently used, and has no dedicated tank roles), or more play along the rule-of-cool, such a skill that powers up a character's auto-attack by changing their sprite and giving them an oversized weapon to smack the enemy around with that lasts for the entire battle.

They would of course be strong enough they'd be worth using in longer fights, such as large regular encounters, mini-bosses and bosses, but not so powerful and easily used they'd be used for small or normal sized regular encounters.
Their cost is just high enough to make the player plan around their usage, but not so high, they'd feel crippled by casting these. Well, that was the plan at least. I never got around to test them and letting people try them, so I guess I won't know, lol.

 

[Wavelength]

An Ultimate Skill, almost by definition, should be much more powerful than any other skill available in a character's kit - to the point where it does crowd out any halfway-similar skills unless the Ult is something very situational. Taking a simple AoE damage skill, for example, if a character's best "standard" AoE for a situation deals about 500 damage to all enemies, I'd expect the Ultimate to deal 1500-2000 damage to all enemies (300%+ of what the normal skill does).

With that in mind, I think it's best to design Ultimate skills around some sort of artificial timer. Over Limit gauges (or TP gauges that are dedicated solely to Ults) are a good example of this - the bar fills up as the characters take actions in battle, so as the designer we can be sure they are only using it once every, say, 10 to 20 turns. There isn't really a "choice" between using regular skils vs. ultimate skills; the player simply "gets" the ultimate skill every once in a while and it feels good. These artificial timers can still incorporate a skill element to make them more interesting; for example, Tales of the Abyss had a "Field of Fonons" system where every two or three minutes during battle, a small area of the battlefield would be affected by Fonons that enhance your spells into "ultimates". The challenge was to get a character to run to that area and cast a spell (presumably protected by their allies, because getting hit by foes would interrupt spellcasting) before the Field dissipated. This still limited the player to using their enhanced skills to once-every-few-minutes, but it felt very much like something Earned when you managed to unleash one.

All of the above is assuming either a turn-based battle system, or a battle system where actions take a significant amount of time to activate - in other words, any system where you are "choosing" an action to spend your limited amount of time/turns on. I think the thought process would be very different in a system like a MOBA (where skills take almost no time at all to execute, cooldowns are the only real gate to taking more actions, and ultimates are therefore designed to be used at any time alongside the rest of a character's kit).