Paid plugins that lag

dragon1up

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
126
Reaction score
38
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
This is in relation to a very similar thread of a card game battle plugin lagging and not working as advertised. So you may be wondering why another thread, well quite simply I'm looking for support in terms of how best to optimize Java scripting and how to optimize said plugins.

But Dragon1up why don't you do that yourself ? Simple answer is that I don't actually make plugins so don't really have an understanding of how things load up.
 

Andar

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
30,260
Reaction score
7,138
First Language
German
Primarily Uses
RMMV
solving lag is anything but easy.

The main problem is that there are about half a dozen different technical restrictions that all look to the user as lag. And to solve lag you first need to find out why it is there.

For example there is lag that is caused by loading files. Make the pictures for the cards too large and the computer needs more time to load them. And pictures can only be used after loading is complete.
This type of lag has nothing to do with the plugin, you would have to process your added pictures through a better compression to make the filesize smaller to solve the problem.

Another form of lag is caused by not enough RAM - this usually is especially critical when deploying to mobiles as those have only very limited RAM, but it can also be a problem if the computer used to play a game is older and has less RAM than the computers the plugin developer tested with. That is why professional games list minimum and optimum configurations.

Then of course there is the lag caused by sub-optimal coding. If there are code lines like that, the CPU has more work and again that can cause slow-down. That is very difficult to solve unless you are the programmer of the plugin, especially if it is a paid one that can't be posted.

And then it might be that the lag isn't caused by the plugin at all. Just because the plugin is the last change to the game project before the lag becomes detectable does not mean that the lag is caused by the plugin alone.
Almost everything in the project needs resources and causes lag when using them. However, most computers have a processing reserve before that lag becomes detectable to the player.
If you have a different cause for lag that is undetectable because it uses only 95% of that reserve, and then add a plugin that needs 15% of the lag reserve, then the lag becomes detectable on adding the plugin (because the sum is now 110% of the hidden reserve). But optimising the 15% of the plugin will be much more difficult and problematic than optimizing the other 95%.

So basically you need to check every possible cause for the lag, not only the javascript of the plugin, and work to optimize everything.
 

dragon1up

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
126
Reaction score
38
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Well I know exactly where it lags, is there any a way to better optimize the coding in terms of where a plugin(s) could lag.
 

Andar

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
30,260
Reaction score
7,138
First Language
German
Primarily Uses
RMMV
for that we would have to see the code itself as well as a better description of what happens instead of just "lag".
As I told you above "lag" is a misnomer that has many causes and no answer can be given without details.
And optimizing code is the most difficult form of lag-solving, where even good programmers often fail.
 

dragon1up

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
126
Reaction score
38
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
for that we would have to see the code itself as well as a better description of what happens instead of just "lag".
As I told you above "lag" is a misnomer that has many causes and no answer can be given without details.
And optimizing code is the most difficult form of lag-solving, where even good programmers often fail.
1. These plugins may be used in free or commercial games.
2. 'RPG Maker Irina' must be given credit in your games.
3. You are allowed to edit the code.
4. Do NOT change the filename, parameters, and information of the plugin.
5. You are NOT allowed to redistribute these Plugins.
6. You may NOT take code for your own released Plugins.

The terms of the plugin overall, so I'm allowed to edit the coding in general but don't know what to fix in terms of the coding lines.
 

ramza

Lunatic Coder
Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
666
Reaction score
382
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
1. These plugins may be used in free or commercial games.
2. 'RPG Maker Irina' must be given credit in your games.
3. You are allowed to edit the code.
4. Do NOT change the filename, parameters, and information of the plugin.
5. You are NOT allowed to redistribute these Plugins.
6. You may NOT take code for your own released Plugins.

The terms of the plugin overall, so I'm allowed to edit the coding in general but don't know what to fix in terms of the coding lines.
I haven't read through the original thread on the lag caused by this plugin all the way, or rather, I read through a couple of pages of it when it was first posted, but haven't followed up since then.

My major gripe here isn't with the plugin itself, but rather with Irena's absolute silence on the issue at hand. She has deliberately gone out of her way to make it impossible to communicate with her, to report bugs, or otherwise. Sure, the plugin "works" on a basic level, on a monster gaming machine, but that shouldn't be necessary to get a decent frame rate. IIRC, projects using the plugin run fine until the actual card battle stuff is called, indicating a problem with the code, or at least, a resource problem unique to the plugin.

Complete silence is unacceptable. You (and others) have paid money for this product, and it should work. And when it doesn't work, you should have an avenue of chat with the creator to either get it to work, or to get a refund of your money. The original plugin likely did not mention that it required a 6th gen i7 processor and 16gb of RAM to function normally (I don't know the actual numbers here, but I hear they're high), so the fact that it lags horribly on even moderately powered system is a huge issue that needs to be rectified by the plugin creator.

Can't contact her to get a refund? Try a refund through itch.io, or last-case, try a credit card charge back through your bank, or paypal.

I'm not advocating that everyone run out and do this, but it shouldn't be the customer's responsibility to find and fix a problem with a paid product.

For full transparency, I also sell plugins on itch.io, and provide (some) support for them. And am not impossible to contact about issues with them.
 

dragon1up

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
126
Reaction score
38
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Holy s**** excuse the language I didn't know it had that high specs usage ahah even tho my beast of a gaming laptop has that ram req and all met (AMD user but can play all new games on Ultra etc).

Yeah I've tried contacting her on numerous occasions and honestly just now emailed itcho for a possible refund and am able to provide sc with proof of me actually contacting her and said responses I got.

Like I was watching it for a bit till it got published and all and was looking forward to actually using it. As an avid TCG/CCG player I love card games so much and thought of what I could do with it. But then nothing really worked except packed openings...

Upon checking Yanflys channel prior to him/her departure and noticing that comments as normal was disabled on something like this and on her own channel comments again disabled. Which is the equivalent of saying my plugin has issues and I won't address said issues publicly where people can reply with them.

But strangely enough a dev I speak to has no issues at all and honestly the card game plugins is based of a jap one just translated and rebuilt with graphics, rules and card openings. Not the same sure but the base is so similar...


Also this line right here my lorrd sis
" I am not responsible for the card game battle system not working if you change/customize the structure of it to fit your game. If the card game battle system, in its default state found in the sample project, does not work, contact me with the process and I'll fix it."
 
Last edited:

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,112
Reaction score
13,614
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
I think the overall issue is people selling paid plug-ins that slow the games down period. I've heard of people who put only that plug-in in a game, used an empty map and it still slowed down the game to an unacceptable level for a professional game.

And honestly, I'm not sure if providing no support on sold plug-ins is legal in the EU. THAT is where I think the big issue lies too, is it even legal under international law?
 

Shaz

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
39,366
Reaction score
12,867
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
I'm not advocating that everyone run out and do this, but it shouldn't be the customer's responsibility to find and fix a problem with a paid product.
Actually I would encourage people to do this. It's not right to charge someone for something and then refuse to provide support when it doesn't work. People can make it difficult to be contacted, and can ignore requests for support, but they cannot ignore refunds and that may be the only thing that will make them sit up and take notice, and consider that they need to up the quality of the product.
 

ramza

Lunatic Coder
Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
666
Reaction score
382
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Actually I would encourage people to do this. It's not right to charge someone for something and then refuse to provide support when it doesn't work. People can make it difficult to be contacted, and can ignore requests for support, but they cannot ignore refunds and that may be the only thing that will make them sit up and take notice, and consider that they need to up the quality of the product.
I'd just like to clarify that the wording in my post is... maybe not the best. In this situation I agree with you, I 100% encourage everyone having problems with this plugin, who have made at least a reasonable attempt and receiving support, to request a refund through whatever avenue works best for them.
What I'm not advocating is everyone do this willy-nilly. It's true that it doesn't work for what some (maybe most?) people are trying to use it for, but it does work. It was released in a working state, and from what I understand, a lot of the performance issues are related to user customization. I just don't want to start a review bomb type situation where everyone bandwagons hating on a specific plugin, and destroys the whole ecosystem because of it, you know?

I don't want the landscape of paid plugins to get to the point where no one releases anything because the expectation of support is so high that they have no time to do anything but support, for fear of having all of their hard-earned sales clawed back via refund.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Profile Posts


It's my cute little ghost~
Minecraft Dungeons is a great example of a game that's much simpler than other games in its genre but almost as equally immersive and fun to play. Lotta RPGmaker devs could learn from that lesson.
Well, it's been a while since the last time I came here... Is there a JS scripting FAQ? I'd like to know what it's capable of achieving, and how :rswt
I love the Time Fantasy tiles, but haven't played anything made with it yet. Can anyone recommend me something?
Vote for what I show more indepth on Twitter tomorrow from the MZ default resources

Forum statistics

Threads
99,372
Messages
964,549
Members
130,981
Latest member
jimmydark
Top