Parallax Commissions - How Much Would You Pay?

Discussion in 'Commercial Games Discussion' started by Tsukitsune, Feb 3, 2016.

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  1. Tsukitsune

    Tsukitsune Veteran Veteran

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    Hey guys, I'm thinking of opening up a shop in classifieds for parallax mapping to help fund my own project.  I had a few questions before I set one up.

    1. For each different size range, how much would you be willing to pay for the examples you see below (please indicate by size)?  Do you prefer paying by size range or per tile?
    2. Would anyone have use for a battleback parallax mapper?  I can map in other styles too, I just don't really have many examples since my project I use battleback parallaxing.
    3. If you were to request one, what timeframe would you expect to have it done?  I have a job and not much time outside of work, so depending on size it might take a week or two.



    Any input you could give me would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


    Click Thumbnail for Larger Image


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    Medium


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    Large


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    Extra Large


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  2. Shaz

    Shaz Veteran Veteran

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    I don't see the point in quoting a "per tile" price with parallax mapping, since parallax mapping's primary intention is to avoid being locked to tiles/grids.  In addition, the many layers a parallax map could have means "a tile" in a parallax map is completely different to "a tile" in an editor map.  If you charged per tile, and you have 5 layers on a given 32x32 location, would that be 5 tiles or 1 tile?


    Is it worth considering complexity as a factor?  You could have a 17x13 map that takes a very short time to complete because it's very basic, and another 17x13 map that takes 5 times as long purely because of the amount of content.  Do you charge a single price for a 17x13 map, expecting/hoping that you'll have a good enough balance of simple and complex that you'll come out even in the long run?  Or do you try and take complexity into account and charge different prices for the same sized map depending on what's on them?  In that case you're almost considering an hourly rate.  But people who don't have a lot of money, and know parallax maps take a long time to make, probably aren't going to be comfortable with an hourly rate.


    I believe I saw someone offer different tiers of pricing depending on how many times they were asked to revise the map and add more detail.  So a very basic map would be one price, an extra layer of detail which obviously looked better but would take longer was a slightly higher price, and even finer detail would be a higher price again.  The customer would get to review the results after each phase, and if they wanted more, they agreed to add the tier difference to the commission price.
     
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  3. Maple

    Maple Adventure hard! Veteran

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    Those look good. What about just creating a pack that has various parallax elements in it so people can mix and match as they need? More outdoor terrains would be great for mountain/desert/forest backgrounds, as long as you include some elements like trees, rocks and debris etc so that they can be arranged in Gimp or PS. For pre-made parallaxes, if you're selling in bulk, I would personally pay $5 - $10 depending on the size and level of detail. But for custom work I'd have to know that the one you made for me isn't going to also be sold to someone else, making it non-commissioned. In that case I'd pay between $25 and $100. A week or two is fine to wait since there is always so much other stuff a developer can keep busy with. If it could be released in PS or Gimp layers that I could add/remove/edit as desired, then I would pay more. Maybe you could make some game art templates using layers so people can get creative!  :)  Those appear to sell really well on some other art/design asset sites.
     
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  4. Tsukitsune

    Tsukitsune Veteran Veteran

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    @Shaz Those are some really good points.  I was going to just have a base price that'd hopefully be a good balance between simple and complicated.. but knowing me I'd probably just end up making it complex and spend too much time on it.  I do like the idea of tiers though so I might do just that, aswell as separating lighting/shadows.  The person you're referring too might be Musashi, I really liked his interiors and lighting.  I kind of want to stay away from the hourly rate as like you said most people can't afford that sort of thing, including myself haha.  Except in Musashi's case, his hourly rates are super low!


    Off the back of your head, would you happen to know the layers required for parallaxing in MV?  I haven't actually looked into it.  Generally I have the Ground, Overlay, and Shadows/Lighting for Ace parallax.  


    @Maple Hmmm I don't exactly do that sort of thing lol.  I just do mapping, I don't actually draw the parallax backgrounds.  All those you see in my maps are just blended battlebacks from the Ace RTP.


    Thanks for the advise everyone.
     
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  5. Shaz

    Shaz Veteran Veteran

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    I don't see that it would be any different to Ace.  You need to use plugins and there are already a few around.


    @Maple that sort of thing is not allowed here.  Commissions are one-off things.  If someone wants to create packs and sell in bulk, they would have to go through the store, not offer them in Classifieds.


    @Tsukitsune you might want to make that clear in your OP.  If you're offering to make parallax maps, people will assume that any samples you post will be samples of maps you've made, not blending pre-existing battlebacks.  Or remove anything that isn't an example of your parallaxed maps.
     
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  6. Tsukitsune

    Tsukitsune Veteran Veteran

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    @ShazThose are maps I've made, all of them.  The style is blending battlebacks for the floors, cliffs, and water in particular and then mapping around it. Blending the battlebacks is just one of the processes that I go through, and what I was asking when I said would anyone have use for my particular style?  
     
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  7. Maple

    Maple Adventure hard! Veteran

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    @Shaz Oops. Was just answering the question off the top of my head. Did not mean to suggest for anyone to engage in activity that is not allowed. Please feel free to delete that answer. Thanks Shaz. 


    @Tsukitsune I thought you were making graphics, not offering blended rtp stuff. You can disregard my previous response. Still nice maps though! : )
     
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  8. Tsukitsune

    Tsukitsune Veteran Veteran

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    @Maple Nooo I'm not offering blended RPT stuff or any sort of resource lol.  I'm offering a parallax mapping service.  I just incorporate battlebacks into my maps as that's the particular mapping style I use for my own project.  I can parallax map in the more regular style using only tilesets but I don't have any examples.  Also thanks!


    I would still like input on what people are comfortable paying as a Base price for each of the 4 different sizes.  
     
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  9. Shaz

    Shaz Veteran Veteran

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    I would pay quite a bit less if I knew you were starting with something like battle backgrounds as a base, rather than doing the whole map from scratch.  We assume parallaxing is a very time consuming task, and it is usually priced accordingly.  But if you are cutting the creation time in half, say, by using a pre-existing image and building on it, I'd expect to be told that in advance, and I'd expect the price to be significantly less because of it.


    I suspect most people here, when you say parallaxing, assume that you are not starting from a base image.  It might be good to provide some examples of maps you parallax entirely rather than from a base, and to clearly indicate which ones are which (maybe even state which battlebacks were used so people can refer to them and get an idea of how much was pre-existing and how much you've embellished them).
     
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  10. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Veteran

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    @Shaz  I thought MV had built in parallax support so you don't need a script anymore?
     
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  11. Tsukitsune

    Tsukitsune Veteran Veteran

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    @Shaz As the requester you'd know in advance if I use them or not as what style of parallax mapping I do is dependent on which one you want for your game.. most people probably won't even request the battle back style as the looks would conflict with their other maps.  


    You're also using the term base image too heavily.  I don't just pull a battleback and plop tiles on top, I use the textures from the battlebacks to create the floor, walls, cliffs and water.  All of that creates the base layer in battleback parallax mapping and then I add more detail on top of it, more info on the process below.



     I wish using the battleback style cut my parallax time in half!  I'd argue in some cases it actually takes longer. Especially in the case with cliffs as you have to blend it naturally into the environment via grass, dirt, and other things.  Using cliff tiles so much easier as a lot of that you don't have too worry about that as much.


    As for the floors, about equal time.  I pick one texture in the battleback style, add some dirt textures from another battleback, then layer some grass tiles and then add floor decoration/extra detail.  In regular parralaxing I just use a base dirt tile and a base grass tile.  Then layer other grass and add other floor decor/extra detail.  


    The base floor layer is only a small part and the easiest in both styles. Both still require adding a ton of levels of extra detail; trees, decorations, layering tiles on tiles, animating water, lighting, shadow, color adjustments, collisioning,  and more.


    As you can see the process is practically the same for the most part.  So no I don't think battleback style should be worth any less as the time they take are about the same if not more.  


    I may do a little comparison later today, do one map in both styles.
     
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  12. AwesomeCool

    AwesomeCool Bratty and spoiled little sister Veteran

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    I suggest going by the time it takes to complete the job.  Complete some sample ones and list about how long they take to be made and the price of it (as a reference to go by). 
     


    After all, A small complex map could be harder to do then a large simple map.


    Also, the more commissions you do, the better you will get at determining this stuff (if it is anything like what happened with me and script commissions).


    So perhaps just start up the shop up with some general ideas and go from there (using customer reaction as a guide).


    Just my opinion on the matter.
     
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  13. Maple

    Maple Adventure hard! Veteran

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    @Tsukitsune Hi. Thanks for clarifying. What you are offering is your time and skill to create images out of various rtp resources, not selling or re-selling the actual resources edited in part or as a whole. In this case, just charge what your time is worth to you. Since you are not directly creating or rendering the graphics, then you can't really price your work based on the graphics themselves. You can only price for your time to reach the final result. This is where it gets a little gray since you will be potentially profiting from rtp edits... Surely there are some guidelines regarding what you can and cannot do with rtp resources, commercially or not. Maybe if you posted and clarified that information first, then you could come up with a fair pricing model and ensure that you are not breaking any rules/laws. I'm unclear as to what extent you can edit and profit from the rtp, but I'm aware that there are some very strict legal guidelines, as they are commercial art assets. Your maps/scenes look great, so I'm sure you'll have no problem getting people interested in supporting you!  :)  
     
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  14. Shaz

    Shaz Veteran Veteran

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    @Sharmyou're right, it does, but I'm not sure if it allows as many layers as some of the Ace scripts did - I'm thinking not just the pure 'parallaxing' scripts, but the various 'overlay' scripts.  MV's parallax, by default, is for the lower layer - for parallaxed backgrounds, not parallaxed maps.  I believe MV allows you to precede a file name with ! in the Pictures folder, which will treat it like an overlay, fixed to the map rather than the screen.  But I'm still not sure if that's as flexible as some of the scripts were.  There IS a 'bind pictures to map' plugin, which kind of indicates that something was lacking (or that the author didn't realize you could prefix pictures with ! for the same effect).
     
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  15. Tsukitsune

    Tsukitsune Veteran Veteran

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    [​IMG]


    I'd say roughly 2-3 hours after cutting out all the time wasted trying to attempt a hidden waterfall and failing miserably...


    Will finish the comparison battleback version tomorrow.  I'm thinking I'd charge like $20-25 for something like this, and that'd include basic shadowing/lighting.  Thoughts?
     
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  16. Maple

    Maple Adventure hard! Veteran

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    @Tsukitsune That's a good looking map area. I also really like the temple in the trees with the cascading waterfalls in your original post. I have a few questions. How will the user handle passibility for things like walking 'behind' the tree tops, or animated tiles for the waterfall ad/or stream areas? Can the user just tile over those sections with the matching tiles from the rtp? Are the trees and other objects lined-up with the 48 x 48 grid? I am asking because your maps could be a great template that people could buy and then work with to suit their level needs if they can add to them easily. The price(s) you mentioned seem more then fair if the maps are flexible in this way. Thanks! 
     
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  17. Tsukitsune

    Tsukitsune Veteran Veteran

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    @Maple, Thanks! That building is actually a military headquarters.  For passability, I provide an overlay layer that goes ontop of the player and they can just walk behind that.  So no, they won't be tiling over those sections.  Tiling over those sections will also be problematic as the parallaxed map has different filters, lighting, and other things applied.  So unless I edit the tileset too, it won't look right.  The trees and objects are lined up on a 32x32 grid in my examples since they were made for Ace.  If I was mapping for MV I would use the 48x48 grid.  I pay close attention to the grid to prevent any collision problems.


    @Shaz So I finished the comparison map and it took a lot longer than I thought hahaha...like 12+ hours longer (6am and I started around 5pm yesterday)..


    So I've come to the conclusion that I will not be offering the battleback parallax mapping style as it takes too frekin long.  There was a lot more editing involved especially in this map.  Waterfall, water animations, reflections, reflection animation, shadows, lighting, all the fun stuff!  


    Here is the final map and the old map for comparison.


    [​IMG]VS[​IMG]


    Aaand a gif with the animated hidden waterfall that I wanted to do in the previous map but couldn't figure out a way that looked good!  Then there's my process.


    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    So yeah that was a fun learning experience.  I think tomorrow I'm going to do some interiors for a few more examples and then put up shop afterwards.


    On a side note, would anyone be interested in a tutorial on the battleback parallax style?  
     
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  18. terrorchan

    terrorchan Literally a Gloop Veteran

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    I would be totally interested! :0 please make a tutorial they look really lovely!
     
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  19. Menos

    Menos Veteran Veteran

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    As a commissioner, my two cents is that I'd be reluctant to pay by the hour, so offering some kind of specific price system would wise.


    Your maps look nice, but I can't help but see the very familiar battlebacks looking at me. Do you have any other artistic resources you have permission to use that you might be able to incorporate into the same style? That would increase the value of the final product, at least in my eyes.
     
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  20. Tome571

    Tome571 Veteran Veteran

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    I'm sold. Looks good
     
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