Pay first or product first?

[Tsukihime]

Say someone's asked you to do some work for them and you agree to some amount of payment.

And now your work is done and you're ready to do the exchange.

How do you usually handle these situations?

Or strategies to minimize risk of losing out on the deal?

I have never asked people to pay first before receiving their product of some agreement (I usually just tell them the stuff's ready and when they acknowledge I send it over), but I've heard lots of stories where the pay never arrives and the seller's out of luck.

 

[Zalerinian]

I've usually heard that the money goes first, the product second. That way you get your money, they get their product, and then you can provide support for the product. Maybe you can show proof of completion beforehand (a video of a script, a smaller version of an image, etc) to prove you have the product completed to their specification.

 

[Blodeuyn]

I usually showcase the product first (I use soundcloud for music, but watermarks for at etc.) so they know it's ready and they agree it's perfect for them. Then they pay, then you give the product. If they don't pay, they get nothing, if they pay and you don't give the product, your reputation is ruined. So it's useless for anyone to try and 'scam'.

 

[Marian Hurricane]

Unless it's some long-term, ongoing project, I prefer to get money first. Money can always be refunded, but you can't really 'take back' your work once you've handed it over.

 

[Quigon]

I usually accept payment last, but my preferred method is sending them WIPs and shortened versions up until it's done.

 

[Andar]

It can go wrong both ways - I've had heard from others that some artists got scammed and made the work but never receiving payment, but there is also an artist who took off with my money and still owes my two desktop wallpapers I never received after paying 100€ for them a few years back.

Unless you have something to check the reputation, I would suggest starting small for both sides, making larger commissions only after getting several smaller works finished...

 

[Jesse - PVGames]

I personally generally give the work over and then accept payment these days. But it might be more prudent to do as others have suggested and perhaps give the buyer a showcase of the material they purchased, like a demo, or a shortened version of a song, or a water-stamped picture, or whatever it is. Then accept payment and then give the final product.

 

[CWells]

You always go for the payment first. You have more to lose in the exchange. You put in the time and effort for something. You tell them its ready so you already have the burden of proving that the product is ready. You get payment first. If you were in contact with them throughout the entire process or however you did it, there shouldn't be much issue.

 

[Lunarea]

Unless I know the person well, I ask for 50% payment up-front. That way, you get something for your effort - even if you never hear from the commissioner again. The commissioner also doesn't lose the full amount - especially if you end up not delivering your end of the bargain.

 

[Shaz]

Whether I have done work for other people, or other people do work for me, I have always worked on a product-first, pay-second system. There have never been any issues. I will continue to do this until I get burned, or until someone asks for a different arrangement. If it's a longer or more involved task, I will do interim payments.


If you are doing art for someone, you could modify it somehow and give them the end result (watermarked, slightly larger/smaller size, etc) so they can take a good look at it, then pay, then you give them the correct version.


If you are talking about scripts, you could give them a compiled, encrypted game to play, to demo the scripts in action, or do a video of it.


Or you could just take the innocent-until-proven-guilty approach and trust them, which may depend to an extent on how well you know them or what their reputation is on the forum.

 

[Chrome]

Once I payed first and the person just left...lol, it was this forum too. Also once I payed after I see the watermarked version. But when I got the real version, it does not fit into my game. I can't plug in the watermark version into my game to see if it works so what's the point, that was another waste if money.

Obviously, for a buyer, product first is better. Vice versa for sellers.

 

[Taien]

I've done both. For a new artist I don't know a demo is usually worthwhile. Ask them to write demo through the graphics, or add red lines etc.
If its music they can give you a snippet or again add a channel repeating demo to the piece, professional tunes for samples you'll often here copyrighted like this these days. Every 30 seconds or less demo or advertising for the artist is repeated.

For an established artist it isn't as important, but then vica versa probably applies.

Take it piecemeal - so a work a little, pay/earn a little. This establishes a working relationship.

However your concern is why I am asking artists if they mind me putting their names in the credits in my working thread, to demonstrate I am paying on time, all the time. For larger payments there is always escrow, which I highly recommend.

- edit

Once I payed first and the person just left...lol, it was this forum too. Also once I payed after I see the watermarked version. But when I got the real version, it does not fit into my game. I can't plug in the watermark version into my game to see if it works so what's the point, that was another waste if money.

Obviously, for a buyer, product first is better. Vice versa for sellers.

 

Ask for the demo to be the exact size of the tile/sprite etc. You really want the completed thing, just with the word demo or lines through it, watermarked or otherwise.

 

[BigEd781]

You're not going to get the full amount in advance.  I do a fair amount of contract development on the side.  It comes down to creating a contract between the two parties.  If the buyer breaks the contract then it is a simple civil matter and you will win.  Also make sure you're not getting into a business deal with a minor.  I add that because it would be easy to do around here.

 

[Chrome]

@tai: the artists that I work with are from DA or other, so they can't make a game demo, so that sucks.

Also If the buyer gets screwed, then they are screwed. PayPal does not protect against digital stuff.

 

[Taien]

@tai: the artists that I work with are from DA or other, so they can't make a game demo, so that sucks.

Also If the buyer gets screwed, then they are screwed. PayPal does not protect against digital stuff.

That is why I suggested escrow for larger projects.

Sorry can you elaborate what DA means? There is always a way to make a demo of RPG Maker art.

 

[Shaz]

DeviantArt

 

[cosmickitty]

I usually just send the finished product and then get payment, ive never had anyone fail to pay me. On the other side ive worked with several people who had hired someone before me and been scammed when they paid first. Easiest for me is to work on small batches at a time.

I do it more for wip shots, but i send screenshots through pu.ush i guess you could still crop it and use it if you were determined... But its an easy method on my part

 

[Tsukihime]

There is always a way to make a demo of RPG Maker art.

What does "RPG Maker art" refer to?


The art actually being used in an RPG Maker project, which requires the artist to obtain a copy of the program?

 

[cosmickitty]

I personally think that suggestion is a tad ridiculous, if you hire me to make art then great, but unless you're additionally hiring me to do mapping spending all that time making a demo is just crazy.

 

[Taien]

True RPG Maker art is a bit of a general term. I am a coder myself and I agree defining art is very uncertain ground, which I won't presume to do.

Art though as far as graphical tiles or sprites go is very easy to make a demo for. It takes about 2 seconds to draw a bold line through a tile or even better greyscale it then add the words demo over the tileset. Would I pay a dollar or two more from this, sure if pressed.

If its not already in the RPG Maker format I would not pay for it. It can be covered or concealed to any degree very easily with little effort for a demo. If you are cagey you'll use a color from the pallet of what is already there, so it cannot be removed at all. - Another reason people greyscale.

Music, you can add a channel as I've advised above repeating the term demo or the musicians name. That way if its used in a commercial product, well the person has no leg to stand on in copyright terms. If they use it in a free product without consent you are getting free exposure from your website or name being repeated over and over.

As far as code goes, I've got nothing I apologize to help you . Hopefully someone else does have experience in that area. (Comments are a fairly weak way to protect it, but there is that - Also of course you'll get to the point where nobody else can understand it but you).