Pixel Madness 2013

[Ksi]

So, just call the qualifyiing round over. Let the games begin. From here on out, no Franken, just pixels and love.

Arguing about this is just taking us in circles and stalling the competition, yo. Get over the practice round, this is where the real **** starts.

Peace out, homies.

 

[Tsukitsune]

I'm sorry, des, but I don't feel threatened or offended by it. If it takes 10 hours to make something better than it took a person to do in 10 minutes, then maybe there's a bigger issue at hand.

Frankenspriting can only take a person so far. And I'd like to believe that the people in charge of the contest would be creating challenges that are hard to do through frankenspriting.

That's kind of avoiding the point.  The point is still that one set of competitors having to put in more work and effort compared to another set of competitors to try and beat them is "unfair".  There are several different people with varying levels of skill with original spriting.  That being said, depending on their level they'd have to work much harder just to try and "attempt" to beat someone who franken sprited.  The person who frankensprited could make better or equivalent work and beat the latter competitor easier simply because they're using pieces already made that look good.  It's the uneven playing field that's unfair.  Now do note I'm not knocking frankenspriters as they've got their own sets of talents and varying levels of skill too.  However you can't deny that they have it easier than someone who makes their stuff from scratch.

Now everyone keeps speaking of later rounds, and only the best works will truly be at the end, making it hard for frankenspriters, etc.  That's lovely and all, however where I stand and what I don't like is that some competitors from group A (original spritiers the ones who have it tougher) could potentially be eliminated despite their best efforts because their work was not as good as someone in the latter group B who had it easier.  Whether it's original spriting or frankenspriting, that doesn't make any difference to me.  It's the unequal playing field that I don't like.  Now if this was a solely frankenspriting or solely original spriting contest where everyone is on equal footing I would have no problems seeing that. 

 

[Lunarea]

I still don't see how it's unfair. It's not like anyone is forced to either frankensprite or not. And since we don't know what the themes are (or even whether they're possible to do via frankenspriting), we can't say that the frankenspriting person will have any advantage at all.

It's a competition, yea, but it's supposed to be a fun one. Not an objective qualifier of the best spriter ever.

 

[Gomi Boy]

Do you have any particular objections to labelling frankensprites?

 

[Tsukitsune]

I still don't see how it's unfair. It's not like anyone is forced to either frankensprite or not. And since we don't know what the themes are (or even whether they're possible to do via frankenspriting), we can't say that the frankenspriting person will have any advantage at all.

It's a competition, yea, but it's supposed to be a fun one. Not an objective qualifier of the best spriter ever.

That's "Future" themes, future rounds, they haven't happened yet, they do not matter.  What matters is the first round where there WAS an uneven playing field.  Group A has it harder to achieve said task comparative to group B.  It IS harder for original spriters to achieve an equivalent result or better result to that of someone who can just frankensprite already made material.  Group A HAS to put in more effort than group B.  The round that did happen did not have equal footing.  In this round Group B does have an advantage over A. 

Let's go with your scenario though, just for the sake of it.  Let's say group B frankenspriters in later rounds due to whatever themes, etc, limitations that are put out, let's say that does happen.  Now Group B has it tougher than group A.  Does that make it okay then too?  To now have Group B hindered and now to have group A have an advantage?  No it's not.  In a competition, all competitors should be on equal footing, period.

 

[Gomi Boy]

I think there's a lot of back and forth here that doesn't necessarily need to hold up progress. This whole thing could be settled right now if we just agreed to label frankensprites and let the voters use that information how they will.

 

[Tsukitsune]

How, exactly, would it ever be more difficult to frankensprite something than to do it from scratch? Setting aside the time it takes to find materials.

I think a lot of people are making up scenarios they themselves know don't make sense for the sake of seeming like the good guys, and this whole thing could be settled right now if we just agreed to label frankensprites and let the voters use that information how they will.

Whah?  Reread my posts, I said it's harder to make things from scratch than to frankensprite.  Group A (original spriters), have it harder than group B (frankenspriters).

 

[Gomi Boy]

Oh, ugh, I was mixing your and Lunarea's arguments together. Thinking she had said frankenspriting could be harder than scratch-spriting, when really she never did. My bad.

 

[monkeynohito]

Whether people think Frankensprites are the pinnacle of all human achievement or not, I thought it was pretty tacky for certain entrants to be spamming up their competition with complaints, whinging and calls for disqualifications in the voting threads while mods are saying drop it.

 

[Gomi Boy]

Thanks for sharing!

 

[EvilEagles]

What a madness this has turned into. Oh wait.

 

[Gomi Boy]

Hold up, wait, this wasn't all an April Fools' joke?


dayum. I got a lotta things to answer for.

 

[cosmickitty]

do you not see how insulting it is to ask a real artist to be happy to have the same rating as someone who can use copy and paste?

edit:

if we had a different contest like a "frankensprite contest" that might be really fun—i might even enter, because everybody would be on equal grounds. likewise, a contest with original stuff would be great. but if you mix and match the two, then you run into a problem. they're different things. imagine a world tournament of checkers, except that half of the player aren't as good as the other half, so they get to move their pieces in both directions while the good players can only move forward.

but the idea that some people spend multiple hours creating something from nothing can only hope to get the same score as someone who does a headswap is the absolutely wrong kind of message that we should be sending.

As a "real" artist, I have no issue with people using frankensprites.  However you choose to create your own art is up to you.  I don't think it's on anyone to judge someone else's methods.

That's "Future" themes, future rounds, they haven't happened yet, they do not matter.  What matters is the first round where there WAS an uneven playing field.  Group A has it harder to achieve said task comparative to group B.  It IS harder for original spriters to achieve an equivalent result or better result to that of someone who can just frankensprite already made material.  Group A HAS to put in more effort than group B.  The round that did happen did not have equal footing.  In this round Group B does have an advantage over A. 

Let's go with your scenario though, just for the sake of it.  Let's say group B frankenspriters in later rounds due to whatever themes, etc, limitations that are put out, let's say that does happen.  Now Group B has it tougher than group A.  Does that make it okay then too?  To now have Group B hindered and now to have group A have an advantage?  No it's not.  In a competition, all competitors should be on equal footing, period.

Since when is life "equal" I can't equally play basketball as someone who's 7ft tall..... who cares?  I don't see the catastrophic issue here.  People used the skills they have.  I do think they way some people responded to some of the sprites is an issue.  Telling someone their work is trash is wrong, if you have useful criticism I understand posting it, but why post just to be cruel to someone else?  There are tons of workshops here with people who franken and everyone thinks it's wonderful, so for you to turn around and chastise them for the same things you praised them for is wrong.  The community as a whole embraces frankenspriting so why would you then turn around and beat someone down for doing the same thing?

That being said, i wish we were required to use original templates, would've made it more interesting

 

[Gomi Boy]

That being said, i wish we were required to use original templates, would've made it more interesting

This, this, this! To be honest, I wasn't expecting to see many submissions that didn't use the RTP human base to begin with, but I felt a little disappointed looking at the lineup of human figures anyway. What I really want out of a contest like this, if I can get as pie-in-the-sky as I want, is to see whole new designs being made. Sprites that reflect the individual style and personality of their creators. Things that I can look at in a line of anonymous submissions and take canny guesses as to who made them. With edits, that soul just isn't there, so it's not as interesting.


Still, I guess this can't happen right now. Maybe a couple years down the road when the community's stronger at spriting than it is.

 

[themo]

I think the idea was to provide the community with sprites they could use though.. and people who are not able to make their own are likely going to want sprites matching that template since it is the most readily available XD 

 

[T.Bit]

I liked the way this competition was set up in the first place. I liked having a specific base to work with that was well known and widely used. When I was making my sprite, I liked knowing that maybe it would be useful to someone when everything was done. I liked having other references and pulling out pieces of other RTP to use as a base.

What I didn't like was how cruel some people were on here. No, I didn't frankensprite. So please don't jump on me for plagerism or stealing or being a worthless human being. I used something as a model, just like many artists do. Should I apologize for not having the skill or talent to pull something out of my head, spit it on the paper and it look awesome? No, nor should anyone else. I needed something to look at, edit and practice with before making something I felt I could share.

 

[Gomi Boy]

Be careful about internalizing things that never had anything to do with you.

 

[cosmickitty]

 I used something as a model, just like many artists do.

You should use a reference, nearly all artists will tell you that.

I don't honestly see why anyone's opinion matters except those who entered into the contest.  If you entered the contest and feel like this is an issue fine, but if you're just a spectator, especially one with no artistic ability, your opinion should mean nothing. 

I think the only change that needs to be made is to either disable commenting or police what the comments are.  Why would these people ever continue growing as artists if you beat them down when they put something out there?

 

[Lunarea]

That's "Future" themes, future rounds, they haven't happened yet, they do not matter.  What matters is the first round where there WAS an uneven playing field.

This is not the first round, though. This is the qualifying round and all the votes are going to do is decide which two people are going against each other. No one is losing the competition because someone frankensprited.

And this is why I really don't get why things are being so blown out of proportion over it. The contest hasn't even really fully started yet. There's no way for anyone to tell that frankenspriters are going to have the upper hand or that the masses are going to be voting for edited over original. So, why is this being debated so heavily right now?

 

[ShinGamix]

well decide franken or not. please.

cause I could fraken some cool stuff too. I thought no frakens so I didn't fraken anything and other ppl did (kinda unfair)

because if I knew qualifing would allow frakens I would have done one.