Plot and Character Feedback

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lunarea, Mar 4, 2012.

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  1. Little Adventurer

    Little Adventurer Veteran Veteran

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    Sounds pretty good so far!


    I'm taking a bet that purple gem giving him magic of some sort.
     
  2. Bradok

    Bradok Villager Member

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    @Little Adventurer


    Yeah, something like that! We actually have the material for the next three chapter drafted, it's just a matter of implementing it.


    We tried to go in an unconventional way with the story to give something a little different. In the earlier version, before the remap, we had a few people test it and none of them could see Ryne's inability to free the sword coming. Everyone though that he would pull free the Holy Sword and kills all the Orcs, then be thrust into some grand adventure as is typical in these sort of games. We really wanted to stay away from that as best we could.


    So we said, let's not make Ryne the chosen one. Better yet, let's make one of his friends the chosen one. Even better still, let's make him resent that person for it. That disappointment in himself, having to be saved by Victoria, and resent in her festers. Thus starting a story of slow morale degradation. Then we get to the point in the story where Ryne is offered power by some disembodied voice. Before he would have never even considered taking it, but after going through all this stuff that's made him feel practically useless he can't help but accept. He wanted to be a hero, save the world and all that jazz, but now he just want's to be strong enough to prove his worth.


    Then he touches the gem, his hand burns for some odd reason, the voice cackles as he does this, then he blacks out and wakes thinking it was all a dream.


    I'd like to go further into detail about up but, well....that chapter is called Sealed for a reason.


    I think we'll be remapping for another two weeks, something like that, and by then I'm going to try to release a demo of the prologue.
     
  3. Oddball

    Oddball Veteran Veteran

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    I was wondering what people thought of my games synopsis that I was only coherently able to put together tonight


    "One person, who believed they were doing right for there country, but made things horrible for the people reigns terror on the country...


    She is already defeated


    Four hero's stepped up to the plate and saved the country


    This is not there story


    In the wake of tyranny, the country struggles to get back on it's feed. Some towns have adapted and grown closer because of it. Other cities, the people have turned to crime and prostitution to get by. While others turn to drugs to forget there pain


    This is about a bodyguard, who wants to quit and do something else because her job is so stressful


    This is about a panderen, who believes he is the last of his kind and has turned to mugging people on the road to get by


    This is about people who just want to get back to there lives, but are drawn in to the clusterf**k of problems created by the tyrant AND hero's actions."
     
  4. Punamaagi

    Punamaagi Hero on their own terms Veteran

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    @Oddball


    Although the synopsis has some typing errors (mostly 'there' instead of 'their' in a couple of sentences), I think that it sounds quite nice. I rather like the idea that the hero's/heroes' deeds were part of the reason for the current state of the world, and your choice of characters seems intriguing. Is the second character ('panderen') supposed to be/look somewhat similar to Warcraft franchise's Pandaren, out of curiosity?


    I've been toying with an idea for my own project which I rather like but which might sound a bit... eh, complicated? I hope that the following explanation makes sense.

    It has been established in the game universe that multiple worlds exist and that they can be connected to each other with gateways. There are two types of gateways: artificial (which are made from stone or wood and can be manipulated with magic to define where you will end up) and temporary (which mostly form in worlds with no artificial/permanent portals; they can appear in any suitable gate-like location, such as doorways, between two trees with branches touching each other etc.). When travelling through gateways, people cross through a strange dimension connecting the worlds which the scholars call "aetherspace", and they will end up in the destination where they want to go unless the portal has been "calibrated" otherwise.


    At one point of the game, one of the four main characters get shot with a poisoned or cursed arrow which causes their soul to separate from their body, causing the body to fall into a coma and the soul to be thrown into a limbo-esque place. If they don't get out quickly enough, they die. The other characters hear of a special gateway which has been said to connect "real" world with the netherworld, and they travel to it in order to activate it and help their friend to get out of the limbo/netherworld.


    Would it make sense that a soul exiting the limbo/netherworld via the gateway would get back into the body it belongs in, though? Also, would it sound plausible that the characters have to find a specific gateway to connect to the limbo/netherworld and that normal people (with body and soul intact) cannot cross to the other side without getting stuck or dying (since I don't want them to go through and save the friend).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2016
  5. The Art of Gaming

    The Art of Gaming Owner of the Green Tunic in Dreamland Veteran

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    I don't know about them getting  into their bodies so easily, but having only souls be able to use a specific gate makes perfect sense to me. After all, they'd have to stop humans from coming in and messing things up somehow (assuming of course that its a two way gate).
     
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  6. Oddball

    Oddball Veteran Veteran

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    @punimaagi: your game idea seems interesting. Were the portals inspired by stargates?


    and yes, they do look like the panderen from wow. Its a sprite made by pandamaru. You should check out her stuff, its pretty cool
     
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  7. Punamaagi

    Punamaagi Hero on their own terms Veteran

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    Not intentionally at least because I haven't watched a single episode of the series. ^^' I think that the aetherspace might have been partly inspired by the Twisting Nether in Warcraft franchise, though.


    Thanks for the feedback! I'll have to think how to make my poor character get his soul back into his body, but it's good to know that the overall concept doesn't sound hopeless.


    //Edit: Ahh, so you meant real stargates and not the Stargåte series? I wasn't actually aware that anything like that had actually existed, but if so, that sounds exciting. I originally got the idea of temporary gateways while walking in a countryside and seeing some trees with intertwining branches which made them look like a gateway or a portal.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
  8. Oddball

    Oddball Veteran Veteran

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    @punimaagi: stargates were actually around for thousands of years. not sure if they really worked, but i think the show stargate might have been inspired by ancient stargates.
     
  9. Emeraq

    Emeraq Veteran Veteran

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    Prologue: A trio approaches the Palace of Nilton, unscathed amidst a raging battle; an army of dragonlings and undead battling back man, dwarf and elf, all seemingly oblivious to the trio's approach. Fire fall from above explodes against earth to the right, and then again to the left of the trio. Men and undead are thrown back by the force of the explosion, the trio continue on unconcerned.


    A small regiment of the Palaces defenders, the Kings finest known as The Red Cloaks, break free from the battle when they take notice of the approaching trio; a white haired Wizard robed in black with purple trim, a graceful and beautiful half breed elven scout, her cold grey flesh and captivating blue eyes and gold stranded hair marking her as what they call a cloud dwarf (Hill Dwarf and Renin Elf "Golden Elf" crossbreed) and the third, the most sinister of the three, a vampire walking in broad daylight no less and yet coming to no harm. Above the three and surrounding the three is what appears to be an orb or circle of darkness.  The Red Cloaks advance on the trio, blades drawn, prepared to strike. The Trio press on and they meet the Red Cloaks half way. The Red Cloaks ready their arms to strike, the Vampire raises his hand and a concussive force sends all four defenders hurtling through the air. The Trio continue on and enter the Palace unscathed... 


    Cut to inside the Palace: An elegantly robed elderly man, seated in a chair, magicked ropes securing his chest, arms and legs to the chair. The golden haired Elven lady, slaps the elder man in the face. "Do not lie to me! You will do well to tell me the truth. Keep in mind I will know a lie when I hear it, after all I was there!" The elderly man sighs, "Ila (that's ila) lass. Yes I know who you are, and I know some of the part you played in this. And if you bare with me, I will tell you what I know" Ila nods at the man. "It was five years ago..."


    (At this point I'm considering having the player take control of Alden, the elderly man, as he relives the story that he began to tell Ila. I think I need to do this to avoid having far too much cut scene at the start of the game) From this point Alden is strolling the courtyard late at night when in the distance he sees the gates open and a regiment of men march toward the palace with urgency. Something is wrong! Their formation and cadence is broken. In the middle of their formation four men carry a stretcher, on it lies a man of no small importance, it's King Dalton! Alden rushes to the king "My Lord!" The captain of the Red Cloak blocks Alden from progressing. "It's not good. We must get the King inside the palace as quickly as possible before anyone takes notice, we don't need a commotion". A light in a window here and there flickers on,  Alden notices and reluctantly agrees and leads the progression back to the palace.


    Inside, the Kings sons, the eldest named Notil (the black robed Wizard at the intro) and his younger brother Nil wait outside the Kings Bed Chambers, Nil paces restlessly, Notil stands silently, awaiting news. The door opens, the physician appears "Alden, walk with me a moment". Alden and the Physician walk slowly away from the bed chambers and the Kings sons, to discuss matters privately. "The wound is not sufficient to kill a man, yet I can do nothing to save him," the physician continues, "The blade was laced with an unknown substance, a poison of some sort. I've done all I can to find a remedy to no avail. I fear we will have a new King in a short matter of time"  "How long?" Alden asks. "Days, weeks, it's hard to tell. I don't know what the poison is, nor do I know how it works"  Alden sighs "The council and the nobles will not approve of a sorcerer as their new King" The physician nods "I have an idea"


    The two talk in hushed tones as the Kings sons approach. Nil "Physician we have a right to hear what you have to say, we are, after all, the Princes of the Kingdom"  Notil remains silent. The physician responds "I know well who you are m'lords. I must return to the Kings side and do what I am able to do. Alden will fill you in" The physician returns to the Kings Bed Chambers. Alden shares with the princes "The King has been stabbed with a poisoned blade. Our dear physician is unable to identify it and has no remedy. He fears there is little he can do. However, there is rumor of an herb with medicinal qualities like none other in this world. It's said that it can be found in the frozen reaches of the Dragon Peaks, our plan is to send someone to search for it and if it exists retrieve it for us.... I'm considering sending the Company of the Silverblade to retrieve it" Nil, the youngest son, is defiant "If anyone should retrieve this it should be one of the Kings own sons, I will go and retrieve this to save father"  Notil, previously silent finally speaks "No, I am the eldest son. If this responsibility falls to anyone, it shall fall to me. I shall go and retrieve this... remedy" Alden nods "Yes, yes I suppose you are right. But you will not go alone, the Company of the Silverblade will accompany you. I will meet with their leader, Vanen Silverblade, shortly and inform him of the plans. If you will, Notil, please pack some things and prepare, you must set sail immediately, there is no time to waste"


    *Spoilers*


    The player then takes on the role of the Company of the Silverblade, Vanen Silverblade, Klane Bladebearer, Ila Quickblade and Tya Silverstaff, along with Notil (Sorcerer Prince) The party battles the elements and critters that are native/indigenous to the colder elements. The party makes their way up a mountainside to a point where Vanen believes they are approaching the place where the herb may be found, Notil asks the party to allow him to continue on alone. Vanen readily agrees, and Notil disappears into the swirling snow.. He does not return, Vanen calls off the search for the herb, and the Company sails back to the Palace... The King can not be saved, and the Eldest son is considered dead.


    Enough Story for now. Any thoughts, ideas, questions, please feel free to let me know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2016
  10. Little Adventurer

    Little Adventurer Veteran Veteran

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    You know, I originally wrote this nice long rant about how RPG Maker games seem to fall into one of two camps, never striking a balance.


    A. They're made out to be a complete joke, with lackluster writing with a clear sentiment of "trying too hard" in terms of humor and whenever they try to be serious and get some sort of emotional impact, they fail miserably because of said lackluster writing.


    B. They're made out to be always "DARK! DEPRESSION! DEATH! SUICIDE! HORROR! NOBODY SHALL BE HAPPY!" and the settings are so bleak that you can't care, because the characters aren't ever allowed a break, never allowed to be happy, and the endings are either complete downers or bittersweet at best.


    But I'm pretty sure you've heard all this before, if not from me, certainly from somewhere else on the forums.


    So. I intend for my game to be rather lighthearted. I want to strike that balance. I want this to be a fun adventure, but not without serious and dramatic moments.


    The problem is, my desire isn't matching up to the ideas I've been getting in my head, such as...

    One character, Quintus's backstory. He was once part of a quintet of Knights, serving under the King of Sonata City as the leader, Lyric's, Squire. Lyric and the rest of his fellow Knights, Harper, Sonore, and Legato were basically like family to Quin when he was young. Not long before Quintus was about to officially become a Knight, the King gave them an assignment: There were some bandits trying to take over an area, and there were a LOT of them, so he needed the best Knights he had to take care of them.


    However, when they reached the assigned area, they got a lot more than they bargained for. Not just in numbers... but these were no ordinary rogues either. They were possessed by a (then) unknown ancient force that none of them had ever seen before, and thusly were completely unprepared for how strong they were. And because of this, four of those great Knights never returned home that day. Lyric, Harper, Sonore and Legato all perished and the only reason Quintus survived was that they forced him to leave, as he was not only the youngest of them, but also the fastest and the least injured. He very reluctantly did as he was told, and raced on horseback back to the castle to deliver the news of their failure, and then collapsed due to his own injuries. Once recovered, he quit the force, despite him getting the title of Knight he wanted, because he felt so ashamed of abandoning his comrades, wishing that he could have stayed with them and fought alongside them until the very end. 


    Since then, he's become a wanderer. A noble one, who still goes by the profession of "Knight", but still he wonders about his purpose in life... 




    To make matters worse about Lyric and his men? Though they died, they do not rest. The moments when they breathed their last, was the last time any of them had any sort of control over their bodies. Normally, their souls would be floating off to the afterlife (well judgement first THEN the afterlife provided they've been good people or don't have unfinshed business filling them with too much willpower otherwise they'd be turned Undead until they finish said business or atone for their misdeeds if there are any and THEN they'd be able to pass on nice and easy) right now... but they haven't. They can't leave. They are trapped still within their bodies, unable to influence them at all. The reason for this? The Void (said "then unknown ancient force" mentioned earlier) won't let them.  It wishes to use their bodies as the first part of it's new plan: Posessing people who nobody would expect to go rogue, unlike the bandits from earlier (all dead now btw), and striking when things are at their calmest.  The souls of the Knights can only watch and scream in horror, with none able to hear them and set them free.




    Or another example is the fate of Siren. Siren is the head Wizard at The Academy and is also the mentor to Minuet, and lets just say she's having a very stressful week (it's final exam/graduation time at the Academy). Not helped by the fact that Minuet broke into her office to further her goal about researching info about Archmages, she frankly needs a breath offresh air. And while she's out alone strolling through the city, is when The Void strikes, possessing her. Like with Lyric and his men, she cannot do anything but watch in horror as her body proceeds to then attack the city she loves. Alto, Minuet, and Sonorous manage to stop her and she falls unconscious. When she comes to and realizes what she's done, she decides to take a leave of absence. Minuet feels like this is her fault, but she's assured otherwise and then Siren leaves, despite everyone's protests as it technically wasn't her fault.


    However, she's not gone forever. At some point in the game, she is kidnapped by Harper (or what used to be Harper anyway) and used as bait/a hostage to lure the party up a certain tower dungeon. There at the summit, Harper holds her hostage. To make matters even more difficult, Quintus is very reluctant to fight his old friends, partially because, well, they're his old friends and nobody should want to do that, and partially because he finds it REALLY creepy that they're supposed to be dead and they're not.  


    Harper then proceeds to throw Siren off the tower. Minuet jumps after her, quickly casting up a Levitate spell on both of them and saving Siren from going splat. And then Harper proceeds to snap his fingers and call down a lightning bolt spell since he KNEW for a fact that, if Minuet truly cared for her mentor that she'd try to save her, and that the Float status that the Levitate spell gives you makes you weaker to the Element of Thunder so long as it's active. Siren is mortally wounded and falls the rest of the way down and dies right in front of Minuet. Minuet then proceeds to fly back up and beat the living snot of Harper, and afterwards goes to mourn and bury Siren, now fully motivated to stopping The Void.


    Granted, canonially Siren survives, but her situation still isn't very fun!



    All serious. All heartwrenching. No moments of those seem fun, do they? Sure, having moments of despair, sadness, seriousness, drama, conflict, tension enc is what makes for a good story in general, otherwise nobody will take it seriously... but if I'm trying to go lighthearted, then I need more happier moments, more heartwarming moments.


    Any ideas would be nice. Perhaps it'd be good for me to tell you of my characters's personalities a bit? I would gladly do so right now, but it's late and I'm tired.
     
  11. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    This forum is for discussing the general principles of game making which could apply to several games .  It is not for discussing the details of an individual game.


    Do you have a game threas of your own  yet?  If not, I shall merge this with Plot and Character Feedback. 
     
  12. Little Adventurer

    Little Adventurer Veteran Veteran

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    I would gladly make a game thread, except I have not all that much to show in terms of actual game screenshots, let alone a coherent plot summary yet, meaning it wouldn't be the most impressive of threads.


    Sorry... >.<
     
  13. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    In that case I'll go ahead and merge it when I've got access to my computer.
     
  14. Missile

    Missile Veteran Veteran

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    It might be a better idea to let the story do what it wants to, rather than what "you" want it to do. It's nice to let go and allow the story to tell itself.


    I tend to agree with you on A, but both A and B seem to be from handling with inexperience, rather than that form being flawed. For example, Dark Souls is point B precisely, but still works phenomenally. You could argue games like Conker's Bad Fur Day is point A done nicely.


    Also, after reading your story, I wonder if it might be leaning too much into classical RPGism, or too traditional to err on the side of whimsy, which if you look at lighthearted+serious games like Chrono Trigger, they're usually subverting traditionalism at the same time. Even Zelda subverts traditional fantasy themes a lot to catch its whimsical feel. But maybe that's the strength of the game, and you could re-think it from a traditional angle! But if you don't, it might be a good idea to come up with other more varied ideas if the current one's giving you a hassle, then come back to it later with new eyes.
     
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  15. LightningLord2

    LightningLord2 Psionic Bird Thrower Veteran

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    If you want to strike the balance, make sure there's a good amount of representation of all varieties of tone - have silly moments, sad moments, epic moments, creepy moments, dramatic moments... basically giving the game depth in the same way you would a character.


    Also, even with a dramatic and extremely dark backstory, you can still spin them into a less serious plot, or, in fact, a less serious character. Deadpool is the perfect example of this - the movie even had scenes where he and his girlfriend were throwing increasingly grim backstories at each other.


    EDIT: This was meant as a reply to a specific topic about serious and non-serious plots. How did it end up here?
     
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  16. Oddball

    Oddball Veteran Veteran

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    Earthbound falls into camp A also and is done very well. The game is silly and doesnt take itself seriously, but every so often a charecter will say something creepy that will get you thinking about it long after it returns to sillyness  watch a playthrough of it


    also, couldnt charecters in a grim story banter at one point to forget there troubles? Either point can be done well with the right writing
     
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  17. Niten Ichi Ryu

    Niten Ichi Ryu Grey Lords Emissary Veteran

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    Agreed with Oddball. Alistair in DA origins is also a good example where in a rather grim world, some folks still clings to their sense of humor. Might even be that he jokes to hide the fact that he's sometimes scared. Makes him human.
     
  18. Little Adventurer

    Little Adventurer Veteran Veteran

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    I actually do have another plot related (actually plot related this time, not just tone stuff) question... but is it too soon to ask for help again?
     
  19. Oddball

    Oddball Veteran Veteran

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    go ahead and ask. its what the forum is for. to help with things you cant get done alone
     
  20. Little Adventurer

    Little Adventurer Veteran Veteran

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    True, true. Good point!


    Hoo boy... how exactly to explain this without rambling or giving off a huge wall of text?


    Well... it's like this. See, I have a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses in my world (all related, Symphony and Crescendo are the parents while each God or Goddess after than are their children) and each of them represent a different Element (with a few exceptions). 


    12 Elements exist in my world- Physical, Fire, Ice, Thunder, Water, Earth, Wind, Light, Darkness, Sound, Nature and Spirit. And they're represented by Lur (Fire), Klavier (Ice), Brio (Thunder), Lyra (Water), Crescendo (Earth), Calandra (Wind), Symphony and/or Melisma (the former was killed in a battle against The Void, but resurrected and is currently comatose, and the latter is her youngest daughter) (Light), Dryad (Nature), and Taiko (Spirit) and each of them created a certain race of the world as well- Dragons, Giants, I have Byakko listed in my lore but I can't think of anything better and this is moreso just a really bad pun, Fish people, I have nothing here, Birds (possibly the Song Spirit enemies I created), nothing here, Fairies/possibly Beastmen, and Undead/Magically possessed objects. Humanity was a group project and they all pitched in for it, allowing for them to be the most versatile in magic rather than just one Element.


    But wait, who represents Sound, Physical and Darkness? Well, that's one problem I think I have is that there's nobody. Sure, I said in my lore that Symphony created the world through Song and that Crescendo is called the "father of Bards" and he has a harp (in fact, all of the pantheon have musical instruments of some sort), but you can see that they don't represent Sound at all. This is especially strange when this world is themed around music and sound. It also bothers me that I have no deity representing the Physical Element either, and well as Darkness.


    Though admittedly, there's a reason why Darkness isn't represented, but it still bothers me nonetheless. I do have some ideas about the Darkness Element, but I'm not sure if I'm going to use them or not.


    Anyway, onto my actual problem that's actually plot related! 


    On my world map, there are these Towers on each landmass. Currently there are five, but I plan to add more (and possibly redo my map as well) and I'm having trouble with them.


    1. How many should there be? Seeing as how my world is based on music, I was thinking about having at LEAST seven (scales, classical music modes enc) at most twelve (chromatic scale is twelve for example) since both numbers are tied to music and are important.


    2. What do they represent? Are they erected in tribute to the Gods? Are they representing the Elements? What lies at the summits besides boss fights? What purpose do they serve? 


    I really wish I could find someone on here who knows a lot about music stuff, because that'd help a lot...


    Also, I need reasons for why, besides the whole tower quest, my characters are going to the various landmasses. What awaits them in the Brass Empire desert lands? Or the frozen north?
     
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