Plot and Character Feedback

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lunarea, Mar 4, 2012.

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  1. Mikki

    Mikki Villager Member

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    @Gastin I'm glad you like it!
    The idea I presented here is an extreme amount of work, so if you plan on doing something similar then I'd love to hear how you choose to go about some of the more complex events! I'm planning myself to just take it one step at a time and tweak things if I can't manage to make it work. I've already had to change several ideas around because I couldn't figure how I could reasonably make it work! Anyway, knights are cool too. : )

    @AmpalayaJuice Nope! I haven't started it at all yet. I've just been fleshing the game out a lot over the past few days. I wrote down notes of things I really liked from the two games that inspired me and things that I didn't like - and then I thought about things I wished the games would have included. And I watched demos of other games and such to get a better idea and find more inspiration for what I may be able to do!

    But actually, I don't have rpgmaker on this computer. It's on my laptop which is basically dead... And anyway it's VX so I was thinking to bide my time until a steam sale came around so I could buy MV. In the meantime, I've been working quite hard to find good resources to use for my game. It's been a challenge because all of the stuff I really enjoy doesn't have enough assets and I really hate mixing styles. I was considering to hire someone, but being that I'm a poor college student and I have no idea what people charge.... I'm on the fence about it, especially considering the fact that I'll have around 25- 30 characters...@___@;

    So, not having access to the actual program right now has forced me to spend all my time thinking out the details! Hence why it seems so fleshed out. ;p
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  2. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Mikki If you have access to a spreadsheet (or can at least print out a few blanks), now might also be the time to work out skills and states, or at least start doing them. That always takes a long time, so doing it now will mean that you can have a smoother work flow once you get the engine.
     
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  3. Gastin

    Gastin Villager Member

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    @Mikki
    Well i always like the option of corruption. So you build stuff for adventures to go dungeoning. My idea was if the adv. get fresh loot/components (junk) i can buy it off them to make stuff.

    Id put in i sell gear to adv. and have a deal with the bad guy of the dungeon. Where i tell him whos coming and with what to get money or some of the gear back for free.

    Id put in that i sell faulty equipment to adv. With the same affect as above.

    Another option on resourcrs is the more you help adventures the more areas they clear, the more resources you got access to.

    Just off thr top of my head though.
     
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  4. Mikki

    Mikki Villager Member

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    @Kes Do you mean just so that I already have a list of all the skills I'll want to have for all the actors and monsters? o:

    @Gastin Corruption is always an interesting thing, so I'm sure that would work out well!
    That's a good idea. I could put in some kind of reward system that unlocks new areas if enough points are earned. Good idea! Thanks. ^^
     
  5. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Mikki yes, that's it, with some initial ideas about strengths, do they inflict/remove status effects, do elements fit in with your story/that particular character, will your characters have resistances to or weakness to particular status effects and/or elements. All of these will save you time once you get the engine, but also you have the time now to really think about how those skills relate to your characters as characters. For example, it might not make much sense to have give a very short-tempered, huffy person skills with long warm ups or cool-downs. They are going to want to get stuck in straight away. This thought process is two-way: your characters shape your skills, and your skills add depth to your characters.
     
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  6. Mikki

    Mikki Villager Member

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    @Kes That's a really interesting point! I wasn't intending my game to focus on battling all that much, honestly. But paying attention to small details like that may add that extra little icing on the cake. And as I think about it, just because I personally would use other methods of getting things in my game doesn't mean the player will. I'm giving options for a reason, so people can play the way they want to. I imagined most people would want to be more efficient but everyone prefers different things. Plus, I suppose that I could always transfer it to other similar characters in other projects I work on after I finish this one, if I decide to.

    Thanks for the tips! ^^
     
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  7. Omnilore

    Omnilore Villager Member

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    I posted in here a while back discussing my character ideas, and posted my Test 2 video, then haven't done anything in a while. Now I'm back at it and have created a Test 3 video:


    It will be fleshed out in the final version, but right now I'm working on getting a playable demo ready. As seen in the video, you start out as Darbin Crest, a young cadet at the Imperial Academy. Right now I have his three companions with him for the video, but in the actual game they won't come in until later. Shuu C'Marya is the first character to join Darbin, and she is a teenage prodigy from the College of Sorcery. Her and a few of her colleagues have come to the Academy to attend the Graduation Ball, and search for promising young cadets to continue their education at the College. But Shuu is concerned about a dangerous new weapon she has been asked to assist in constructing, ordered by the Emperor himself.

    Ultimately she hexes Darbin, who is loyal to the Empire, to assist her in escaping into the woods, where they later run into Baun, a thief, and Kurgis, a retired goblin sea captain who is chasing Baun through the forest because he stole a valuable pendant that belonged to Kurgis's deceased daughter. These four eventually form a close-knit team and help build a rebellion to take down the Empire. Darbin is eventually freed from the hex and allowed to think for himself again, but now he has conflicting feelings about where his loyalties truly lie...
     
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  8. Andronius

    Andronius Apprentice Veteran

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    @Mikki those WONDERFUL TIPS @Kes gave you are worth gold! Actually, they are so FUNDAMENTAL and extremely important I'm gonna quote them again, so @AmpalayaJuice can read them too (she said she's new and knows nothing, so I feel with her).

    You can't possibly imagine how important it is to follow these golden tips and advice he gave you: it's not like "the little detail extra icing on the cake", its like the whole cake!
    This is no small detail, really: from noob to noob, before you even draw your first map, follow Kes's advice and plan EVERYTHING before hand: trust me, I didn't and I'll regreat it 'till the day I die. I can't possibly stress enough the importance of those advices Kes just gave you, and I wish someone had pointed out those things to me before I started even my first map. I even wrote something about it here, and there's advice there you should also read BEFORE even touching the editor:

    https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/inde...ecide-on-story-or-gameplay.75166/#post-711632
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  9. Mikki

    Mikki Villager Member

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    @Andronius I just watched a video by yanfly about making databases too and a few more in that comic series and I can tell just how important it really is to lay a foundation down for everything and to plan ahead. I'm really glad that I ran into all of this info before I started work on this new project. I think, now that I'm reflecting on everything, the reason my old games never got past even the first bosses, was because I never planned ahead - I made absolutely everything as I went along, more or less and because of that I would get constantly stuck trying to adjust details because every time I tested the game it felt like trash and I had to go back and tweak things over and over again. Making the game balanced is one of my biggest concerns, but I think that if I plan ahead and jot down ALL THE SKILLS I want in the entire game before I even start, that will make it immensely easier to balance later. (But if you have any tips or resources to help me learn better balancing I would really love to see/hear it!)

    I appreciate the tips and I'm happy to see that the people here are willing to share their wealth of knowledge, rather than trying to keep it all as some guarded secret.

    (Edit: Just read that other post you linked and see you linked the exact videos I was talking about, hahaha! Those are really GREAT videos and I encourage everyone, especially newbies, to watch them! Yanfly's "Let's make a comic" videos on youtube, that is.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  10. Outlaw-77

    Outlaw-77 Lvl 9. Neet Member

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    i've been working on a couple of existential twin characters lately, the basic idea is that they are the creators of the simulation where all mah gaems take place, they enter the simulation via a virtual avatar, as you may when playing an MMO, very few know their names and very few even know they exist at all, typically they are called simply "The Twins" or "The All Seeing Eyes" or (rarely) "The Isosceles Sisters".

    They're the primary antagonists of Project: Fantasia, unlike most of my devil characters who have angel wings, they are the first to have really draconic devilish wings, what I'm trying to flesh out is their personalities, their both high-school age, both trying to impress their senpai, hecne the creation of the simulation, and they are both shown to be quite giggly, but beyond that, my writing for them has differed largely from time to time, sometimes they evoke as very cipher-esque schemer's tone, others they're very strict and cold, I've decided Wi is the more friendly and out going, while Yi is the more cold and controlling sort.

    They use aliases when entering their simulation, Yi Hellrider and Wi Hellrider, comprised of initials that make Y.H.W.H.
    In Fantasia they're goal is to reset the universe through the master program which was the final fight in Intelligence, with him sealed away they resort to utilizing the discordant shards of SATA-N, (they aren't able to locate the S (Sacreblu, who has gained invisibility to their gaze) so they use the ATA instead, the N is unknown to them to even exist. The ATA is Lumi, Koko and Lilac whom against their orders, hadbeen trained to think freely, as punishment for her defiance, they banish Yasondre (who they'd entrusted to mother the three young girls) to the Mamix, an intangible maze and prison to subjects which defy them or threaten the stability of their project. However, with Kyoshi's intervention (he volunteered to overtake the parenting side of things_ and his exploitation of some clever loopholes, he is able to bring Yasondre back via a destructive portal, while at first annoyed that Kyoshi had disobeyed her, Yi decides to let the family be reunited for what little time remains as a reward for Kyoshi's inventive nature, which had impressed Yi. It'd only be so long before the three girls were to be 're-educated' anyway-- however, Yasondre and Kyoshi formulate a plan with Sacreblu to defy the twins yet again. The Twins make several attempts to recapture the girls via use of the denui they had planted throughout varying citizens of their cosmos, a Denui is a "Demonic AI", the three girls, Lumi, Koko and Lilac are revealed to have an Ennui living within them (Enemy AI), whom aid them in not only staying cloaked from the Twins otherwise Omnipotent Gaze, but giving them each some formidable powers, the Ennui are as it turns out, the discarded fragments of SATA-N, and they are trapped within the garments the girls wear, Lumi's Slippers, Koko's Sash and Lilac's Belt each give them a small but helpful special ability, Lumi can jump high, Koko can grapple with her 'tailsash' and Lilac has limited flight.

    The other fragments, S (Sacreblu) and the N (Lazarus) eventually all combined at the end of the game to face off against Y.H.W.H as SATA-N.

    Right now, the plan is that while YHWH is trumped in the final battle, she regardless begins to reset the Universe manually via the Origination -D TT `* (Underscored to the Gravest Power) code, however SATA-N eventually gets her to stop by showing her what he has created isn't a mistake, but an inspirational flaw that has lead to a design even she couldn't comprehend. It's a good way to end it as it not only reveals that Yi and Wi are just as humane as any of us, but it also is one of the only ways to defeat an all powerful all seeing omnipotent entity.
    Here's an art depicting the first color concept of the twins.

    Yi Hellrider and Wi Hellrider. Their aliases and avatars.
    [​IMG]
    Yi is the Blue Caucasian One, Wi is the Red Tanned One.

    Would appreciate some ideas on how to characterize them, their twins so I'd imagine they have a lot of quirks they themselves do, feel free to suggest thing ;]

    I'd imagine their real life names are something like Yisuke and Wisaki, I imagine them as teenage Japanese school girls.
     
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  11. Lyseth

    Lyseth Potato Mage Veteran

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    Okay, so sorry if I'm doing this wrong but, here's my Fantasy RPG's storyline.

    The story takes place in a province known as "Llevengar", a tyrannical King named "Bastion VII" the ruler of the province, has oppressed his people, looting villages, slaughtering innocents both young and old, and kidnapping children to train for his army, however a group of those from within the province refuse to stand for it any longer, they are known as "Silverfall",

    Silverfall make themselves known by looting delivery carts the empire owns, Assassinating the empire's politicians, and so forth, Silverfall is actually just a small fraction of 15 individuals from a MUCH bigger army, their goal is to cripple the empire so their army can bring the empire to it's knees and dethrone the king,

    However, it will not be easy, as the empire possess "Babylonian Armaments", ancient super weapons that choose their wielder, and are classed as the following,

    Gear, armor, weapons, etc.

    Bodily, become apart of the wielder's body.

    Familiar, objects such as charms, bracelets, pins, etc. that become immortal entities to fight for their wielder, and cannot be killed.

    Babylonian Armaments are super weapons created by an ancient civilization for defense, but the ruler of that civilization became obsessed with power, so his general took the Armaments and hid them throughout the province as well as the Fellera province, the 59 Armaments were lost to time, until the empire began collecting them and equipped their troops with them, however, even those from the rebellion have gained control of some, namely those who are apart of "Silverfall",

    The game's story starts with the main character going through rigorous training to be Bastion VII's daughter's personal guard, upon completing his training and the final test on the following day, he is brought to the armory where they hold ALL the "Babylonian Armaments" they have obtained, a specific sword "Tenshi-Taya, the elemental blade" responds to his presence and becomes his Babylonian Armament.

    Sorry if this seems rushed, the game will reveal more on the Armaments history, but not without me spoiling TOO much.

    EDIT: forgot to include characters,

    Selidan

    Race: Human/Elf (half breed, often referred to as Spellbound)

    Gender: Male

    Babylonian Armament: Tenshi-Taya, the elemental blade.

    Age: 19

    Bio: Selidan is a level headed, and cool under pressure individual, he was adopted into the empire by Bastion VII to be the princess' playmate at the age of 6 and eventual personal bodyguard to her, Selidan is a half-breed of Human and Elf, normally humans are not as well versed in magic, but Elves are, allowing Selidan to harness magic and thus enhancing Tenshi-Taya's power, however he was sheltered his entire life and never learned about the dark side of the empire until he met "Silverfall" members, he then changed his loyalty as he seeks justice for Bastion VII's crimes.


    Amolith

    Race: Elf

    Gender: Female

    Age: 20

    Babylonian Armament: Moréqua, the twisted spellbook

    Bio: Amolith is an Elven court mage who actually came from the Fellera Province, a province with the highest Elf population in their world, she was visiting the Llevengar Province to study the runic chambers preserved for centuries, hoping to shed more light on the origins of harnessing magic, however, upon reaching the shores of Llevengar she was given a not-so-friendly welcome by some soldiers from the empire, trying to steal away Moréqua, but her magic protected both herself and the spellbook, soon she caught word of the situation regarding the empire and joined "Silverfall" offering her magic prowess to them.

    Cynthia

    Race: Human

    Gender: female

    Age: 18

    Babylonian Armament: Venomous, the toxic crossbow

    Bio: Cynthia is a chemist from an alchemy village in the far eastern regions of Llevengar, she specializes in toxic acidic concoctions, the highly caustic fluid is powerful enough to eat through metal armor and especially organic matter, like human flesh, her notable "calling card", is her toxic crossbow bolts left behind stuck in her. victims, the poison from her crossbow has no antidote, and does not need to be reloaded EVER.

    Rowgan

    Race: human

    Gender: Male

    Age: 55

    Babylonian Armament: Mjölnir, the quaking warhammer

    Bio: Rowgan is the oldest within "Silverfall", commonly seen wearing bulky armor and wielding Mjölnir, leaving the others wondering how he can manage all that weight, he is a veteran for the Galahara Province military, and was living the peaceful life after relocating to Llevengar with his wife and infant daughter, until the empire's men invaded, violating then murdering his wife, kidnapped his daughter and burning down his home, Rowgan picked up Mjölnir and adorned his armor once more, seeking the commander responsible for his wife's death and kidnapping of his daughter, then wedge Mjölnir into the commander's skull.

    Voren

    Race: Half-vampire

    Age: ???

    Gender: male

    Babylonian Armament: Xin-Zheng-Jong blood (blood of an ancient chameleon-like monster)

    Bio: Voren is the top assassin of the rebellion, claiming the lives of MANY politicians and military officials of the empire, due to being a half-vampire, he does not burn in sunlight or avoid other vampire weaknesses, instead he is weaker during the day but stronger and faster at night, Voren's Babylonian Armament makes him not leave footprints or make a sound as he walks, as it makes him COMPLETELY invisible, Voren is more commonly mobilized for night based missions, and has yet to be identified by empire authorities, his weapon of choice are dual wield Katar.

    Edit:

    Here are the others in the group,

    Lalir

    Race: Elf

    Age: 21

    Gender: Male

    Babylonian Armament: könar, the cursed lance.

    Bio: Lalir is Amolith's bodyguard while she studies the runic chambers across the Llevengar province, he is the greatest lance martial artist within the Fellera province, he accompanied Amolith when she joined Silverfall, claiming "it's only for her protection", he secretly harbors feelings for Amolith.

    Aura

    Race: Human

    Age: 18

    Gender: Female

    Babylonian Armament: Nótos and Vóreios, the twin ice blades

    Bio: Aura came from the polar regions of the Llevengar province, she discovered the twin blades frozen in a wall of ice while exploring, when she returned to her village, everything was ransacked by the Bastion VII's army, she buried everyone, even her own parents, then vowed to avenge her loved ones, and drew the twin blades against her enemies, slaying countless imperial soldiers of the empire, after she would slay them she leaves her "calling card" by encasing them in ice.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  12. Chaos Avian

    Chaos Avian Abyssal Wing Restaff

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    I want to design a series of short mini-projects using a party of 4 from a set of some old projects I've made but I'm unsure what 4 to use. I want to throw a vote(?) to you here.

    So one character from each element.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Chaos Avian I'm having a hard time deciding, because each of those characters' faces and stances suggests a different personality. It would be quite easy to end up with a party consisting of mainly of irritable/angry people e.g. with Ryan, Elladale and Ricardos. That would pre-determine a significant part of your story and character development. If you have any idea of what the story and/or characters are like, then I think you have to go with the image which most closely reflects that.
     
  14. Chaos Avian

    Chaos Avian Abyssal Wing Restaff

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    @Kes The idea is that these characters are whisked away from their respective worlds to another and paired up in several parties (one of each element), with each party or story being a "what if" scenario (like different routes with some dungeons, enemies and narrative differences).

    By asking multiple people I wanted to create a number of scenarios while tallying up the characters and pairing them up based on the votes (i.e. The most popular is in one party while the least popular are in another). So the randomness is results is welcomed.
     
  15. Andronius

    Andronius Apprentice Veteran

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    :blink: Recently I've been experiencing very serious doubts regarding Plot and Characters in my project... I don't know how many weeks I've been unable to even sleep thinking about it. The thing is that Classes, abilities and skill-leaning system influence hugely lore and plot, not to say the whole gameplay experience. Also, an "open system" would probably require less characters, but much more work. So here's my dilemma:

    My game is NOT solo-oriented (a team must be assembled in order to progress), so originally I had in mind to let the player recruit up to 15 playable characters, which is to say 15 different classes, with their own skill-trees, background, lore and what not. However, I've been playing many other projects and different games the past 2 weeks, and I've noticed how interesting it is also to let the player choose class, abilities and skill-trees, to give them at least the illusion of customization and freedom.​

    So it's a big internal debate for me: traditional Locked-Classes vs. Open Skill Systems (or a free-form system, if that's the phrase). This is a very difficult, utterly important subject, at least from the development point of view, and I've been doing quite some research about it.

    The lack of granularity, of "class estability", makes it very hard to fix overpowered skill combinations or incredibly weak, poor character building. The already extremely hard, excrutiating problem of balancing, becomes even much harder whenever there are not stable, fixed-classes. Free-form skill choice would be much harder to do than static typed-classes I already have. That’s what it boils down to... especially regarding BALANCE and those damned FORMULAE! D:<

    screenshot.jpg

    There are lots of possibilities between strongly-typed classes and very generic open-skill lists, of course. But in this stage of my project's developement (btw my very first project as some of you know), moving just an inch towards an “open skill system” would bring massive, unimaginable amounts of extra work. And annoyingly, any compromise one chooses between the two options will always create rabid angry critics, claiming "it's a bad game"… before they even try it.

    I don't know if perhaps anyone else had this questions when working of their projects, but for me it's an urgent issue because the class and skill-learning system affects so deeply all the aspects of the game, including of course the plot and character development, and everything else.
     
  16. lemons

    lemons Villager Member

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    @Andronius , can you elaborate on what you mean by this, exactly?

    Anyways, hello thread :kaohi:I'd like some feedback on a quick and simple question I have:

    How original can a story about vampires and werewolves be nowadays, if at all? glances at my icon
    My ideas are, well, sort of cliché at heart. My game has an original world with original characters, a somewhat unique gameplay mechanic (in my opinion, at least), and I'll implement original art assets at some point, but I feel like if I advertise my game as "a world that involves vampires and werewolves and all that..." people will just look at it and go "oh yawn, another one of those" and scroll past it. Would you, personally, give something like that a chance, or do I have to start considering making up new monsters in order to get people's attention?
     
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  17. Anthony Xue

    Anthony Xue Ancient Architect Veteran

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    Then don't advertise it as such a game. Put emphasis on the original parts and let the werewolf/vampire thing run in the background.

    It's not exactly easy nowadays to tell a story that, at its core, hasn't been told before. What matters is execution. Start advertising with an excerpt from a dialogue that you consider interesting and well-written, for instance, to draw attention.

    And finally, clichés are clichés for a reason - they usually work ;). Some people will devour each and any vampire/werewolf story they can get their hands on. As long as there are enough original elements to make your work still stand out, don't be afraid to use a portion of clichés here and there. We can't all be Torment, and we don't have to be.
    =======
    Let me tell you from experience: You can only put into the game what you can afford, be it in terms of money or in terms of work. No matter how cool just another feature/location/plot twist might look... having a smaller finished game is worth more than a probably perfect, but unfinished shell.

    Once you're done with this game and starting the next, we can talk about those balancing problems :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
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  18. Lyseth

    Lyseth Potato Mage Veteran

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    May someone give feedback on my characters and story? (It's above this post a bit)
     
  19. lemons

    lemons Villager Member

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    @Anthony Xue I certainly will try that; I think "a game about shapeshifting" might work slightly better, haha.

    @Lyseth I would personally avoid calling someone "Bastion"; I know a bastion is a real thing, but my first thought was "Overwatch!"
    Also, Babylon was a real place. Does your game take place in our world somehow, or did you just name it that for fun?
     
  20. Lyseth

    Lyseth Potato Mage Veteran

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    @lemons

    Well "Babylonian Armament" just sounded better than anything I could make up, also I had this written down LONG before Overwatch came out. (When only, Tracer, Winston, Widowmaker and Reaper were the only confirmed names)

    EDIT: to be precise, the civilization that created the "Babylonian Armaments" goes by the name "Babylon", granted by historians within the game, and it is noted that the "Babylonian empire" collapsed once the armaments were lost, as they could no longer effectively defend themselves, because these armaments are basically ancient super weapons, choosing their wielder, "Babylon" basically forgot how to defend themselves WITHOUT the help of the 64 armaments.

    And no, the world within this series is in no way linked to our reality's timeline whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
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